Hillary Clinton

[RavenSky]

Correct. I think that Trump is by far the most dangerous politician that we've ever had who had a legitimate shot of winning the presidency. I think that he is incredibly thin skinned, petty, explosive temper, micro-manager with zero grasp of important issues. I'm a moderate, but I'd never vote for him.

I think Theocrat Ted is far more dangerous.

And for a change, I agree with Derec.

I totally agree with Harry's assessement of Trump

I think that he is incredibly thin skinned, petty, explosive temper, micro-manager with zero grasp of important issues.

but I think we would actually survive a Trump presidency. I think Ted would turn this country into a place I would not want to live in.

 

[RavenSky]

She kept classified information on a homebrew server. If not actually criminal (FBI is investigating as we speak) it is at the very least a serious enough lapse of judgment to render her a bad choice to be president.

See I really don't agree with this. Wouldn't a 'lapse of judgment' be seeking the advice of an astrologist to make presidential decisions? Not completely understanding hacking risk back then...not so much.

Not to mention, there is nothing that says the "home-brew server" was any less secure anyway. The issue was not security. It was having a contemporaneous record of the emails.

 

[RavenSky]

I had no idea what you were aware of. And instead I get a defensive "Yes, and?"

I'm outta here.

Dude: you gotta thicken up a little!

Some posters aren't used to the "spirit" of this sub-forum.

If I hurt his feelers simply by expecting him to elaborate (all he did was post a link and excerpt without any commentary as to what point he was hoping to make), then he should probably put me on ignore right now. That was not even remotely me being snarky/harsh or anything other than unsure as to his point

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Lots of truth to the above! She is hated because she's a moderate - just like most of the country. It shows has far right the republicans have swung.

I don't know how true that is. The Republican Party was starting to devolve around 1993, but was no where in the terrible hyper partisan shape it is now. In the mid 90s Limbaugh was a loud mouth, not a lynchpin of the Republican Party. The Politicians were partisan but didn't sound like Rush Limbaugh.

1993?!?! It started long before then!

Back in the 60s my father was active in politics as a Republican. We moved to Arizona in 68 for allergy reasons--and he quit politics because the Republicans of Arizona were unacceptable to him even that far back. By the 80s he was pure Democrat--because the parties changed, not because he changed.

- - - Updated - - -

Correct. I think that Trump is by far the most dangerous politician that we've ever had who had a legitimate shot of winning the presidency. I think that he is incredibly thin skinned, petty, explosive temper, micro-manager with zero grasp of important issues. I'm a moderate, but I'd never vote for him.

I think Theocrat Ted is far more dangerous.

Note the part of his post I bolded.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

See I really don't agree with this. Wouldn't a 'lapse of judgment' be seeking the advice of an astrologist to make presidential decisions? Not completely understanding hacking risk back then...not so much.

Not to mention, there is nothing that says the "home-brew server" was any less secure anyway. The issue was not security. It was having a contemporaneous record of the emails.

We keep seeing stories of so many millions of US employees whose data has been hacked from government servers, again and again. I have no expectations the US has any real security any more of its servers.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Correct. I think that Trump is by far the most dangerous politician that we've ever had who had a legitimate shot of winning the presidency. I think that he is incredibly thin skinned, petty, explosive temper, micro-manager with zero grasp of important issues. I'm a moderate, but I'd never vote for him.

I think Theocrat Ted is far more dangerous.

That doesn't make Trump not dangerous or ridiculous.

 

[RVonse]

Can someone please tell me exactly what it is that Hillary Clinton has done that makes some people hate her so much? I hear she's dishonest - will someone tell me exactly what she has been dishonest about (I'm not talking speculation here, something solid and proven). She should be in jail (please tell me what laws she has broken and why she should be in jail?).

There is a long history of Hillary, at a minimum she demonstrates a bad name of dishonesty and poor integrity. To the average person it appears she is only out of jail because of her position in government. We know Hillary and husband are lawyers to begin with and also aware they are connected to the Washington establishment. It is established with certainty they started off as middle class people and are now filthy rich due to these same connections. So just how would an average voter make any kind of sound judgement to know if she is actually guilty enough to be in jail?

With all the aforementioned, it is a great wonder why anyone would even consider her for such a high position especially when there are over 300 million other people in the US to choose from? That is what you should be asking.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

Can someone please tell me exactly what it is that Hillary Clinton has done that makes some people hate her so much? I hear she's dishonest - will someone tell me exactly what she has been dishonest about (I'm not talking speculation here, something solid and proven). She should be in jail (please tell me what laws she has broken and why she should be in jail?).

There is a long history of Hillary, at a minimum she demonstrates a bad name of dishonesty and poor integrity. To the average person it appears she is only out of jail because of her position in government. We know Hillary and husband are lawyers to begin with and also aware they are connected to the Washington establishment. It is established with certainty they started off as middle class people and are now filthy rich due to these same connections. So just how would an average voter make any kind of sound judgement to know if she is actually guilty enough to be in jail?

With all the aforementioned, it is a great wonder why anyone would even consider her for such a high position especially when there are over 300 million other people in the US to choose from? That is what you should be asking.

1. Okay, you say there is a long history of her being dishonest. How? Where along the lines of this so obviously gross dishonest career was Hillary charged, indicted, convicted, or otherwise found guilty of some wrongdoing? And how was it that her government position protected her from the wrongful avoidance of her misdeeds?

2. Who is the average person? And why does existence as an "average person" provide or support evidence of the allegations you make? If the average person believed the earth was the shape of a dinner plate, would the earth then morph into that shape?

3. Yes, Bill and Hillary are lawyers, which means they're highly educated and passed through years of rigorous training in order to meet the minimum requirements to practice law unsupervised.

4. So they started off as middle-class, except they didn't. Bill came from a single parent-single income household and through hard work and discipline eventually became a two term President of the United States. And now he reaps the benefits of that. When he left the Presidency, should he have faked his own death, gotten plastic surgery, and then took on a different identity to ensure he wouldn't be able to take advantage of his connections?

And have you seen Hillary's record? I mean, the one starting from high school up until now? I don't throw the word "amazing" around very often, but the woman's got enough energy to replace a nuclear power plant. She has an extensive intellectual and legal education and a history of community involvement since age 8. Go look at her resume'. She might be the most qualified Presidential candidate in U.S. history.

5. Back to the average voter thing. An average voter can find out anything they want about Hillary Clinton. They can look at her campaign website, but a thinking person doesn't want to do that because the likelihood of propaganda is too great. One shouldn't look at outlets like Fox News either, because of the obvious. But there are lots of other places to look if they want to get to know about her.

They can even undertake the daunting task of finding out why she's never been found guilty of the wrongdoing she's been accused of.

Wanna know why Republicans hate her? It's because she was raised as one and at Wellesley she was even the president of the conservative student club--or some other organization similarly named and ideologically situated. Then, after getting involved so deeply with local communities, she began to change. A good education combined with a keen intellect almost invariably destroys the ability to think in black and white. And I want a keen intellect who understands nuance and already has a firm grasp on the issues that face us today.

I find it difficult to believe that any person genuinely seeking the truth about her could come to the conclusion that she's not qualified or that any of the freaks fro the GOP are more qualified than she is.

 

[maxparrish]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-g...ernie-sanders-not-vote-hillary_b_9475626.html

As stated by The Wall Street Journal, there are a great many Bernie Sanders supporters like H. A. Goodman:

A new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll indicates one third of Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders’ supporters cannot see themselves voting for Hillary Clinton in November. This could spell trouble for Clinton who will likely need Sanders’ backers in order to win the White House.

Hmmmm...

 

[RVonse]

There is a long history of Hillary, at a minimum she demonstrates a bad name of dishonesty and poor integrity. To the average person it appears she is only out of jail because of her position in government. We know Hillary and husband are lawyers to begin with and also aware they are connected to the Washington establishment. It is established with certainty they started off as middle class people and are now filthy rich due to these same connections. So just how would an average voter make any kind of sound judgement to know if she is actually guilty enough to be in jail?

With all the aforementioned, it is a great wonder why anyone would even consider her for such a high position especially when there are over 300 million other people in the US to choose from? That is what you should be asking.

4. So they started off as middle-class, except they didn't. Bill came from a single parent-single income household and through hard work and discipline eventually became a two term President of the United States. And now he reaps the benefits of that. When he left the Presidency, should he have faked his own death, gotten plastic surgery, and then took on a different identity to ensure he wouldn't be able to take advantage of his connections?

How much is the job of President of the US supposed to pay? Yes I know that it is our highest government job...but it is still a government job. Let us even be generous and say that without Washington connections, the Clintons should or would be living like professional doctors. That would be very far removed from their present status of wealth which more resembles that of a Columbian drug lord. One has to ask the question how this came about. And maybe this is all within the law but does this show any sort of integrity on their part?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Ah, Talk Freethought, where even a discussion about why people dislike Hillary can turn into a debate over whether Trump or Cruz is worse.

 

[Playball40]

4. So they started off as middle-class, except they didn't. Bill came from a single parent-single income household and through hard work and discipline eventually became a two term President of the United States. And now he reaps the benefits of that. When he left the Presidency, should he have faked his own death, gotten plastic surgery, and then took on a different identity to ensure he wouldn't be able to take advantage of his connections?

How much is the job of President of the US supposed to pay? Yes I know that it is our highest government job...but it is still a government job. Let us even be generous and say that without Washington connections, the Clintons should or would be living like professional doctors. That would be very far removed from their present status of wealth which more resembles that of a Columbian drug lord. One has to ask the question how this came about. And maybe this is all within the law but does this show any sort of integrity on their part?

So she is to penalized for being successful? I thought that was the GOP's wet dream! So, please tell me how you think they made money without 'any sort of integrity'? And is that true for all people who become wealthy beyond your expectations? I'm sorry, but I'm not going to hate or fear someone "just" based on the fact they made money. Show me wrongdoing (like they did with Maddoff) and I will judge then.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

4. So they started off as middle-class, except they didn't. Bill came from a single parent-single income household and through hard work and discipline eventually became a two term President of the United States. And now he reaps the benefits of that. When he left the Presidency, should he have faked his own death, gotten plastic surgery, and then took on a different identity to ensure he wouldn't be able to take advantage of his connections?

How much is the job of President of the US supposed to pay? Yes I know that it is our highest government job...but it is still a government job. Let us even be generous and say that without Washington connections, the Clintons should or would be living like professional doctors. That would be very far removed from their present status of wealth which more resembles that of a Columbian drug lord. One has to ask the question how this came about. And maybe this is all within the law but does this show any sort of integrity on their part?

Influence, connections, access. Sure, it isn't as sexy as selling poison to the Nazi's (Bush's) or alcohol running (Kennedy's), but its a living.

 

[RVonse]

How much is the job of President of the US supposed to pay? Yes I know that it is our highest government job...but it is still a government job. Let us even be generous and say that without Washington connections, the Clintons should or would be living like professional doctors. That would be very far removed from their present status of wealth which more resembles that of a Columbian drug lord. One has to ask the question how this came about. And maybe this is all within the law but does this show any sort of integrity on their part?

So she is to penalized for being successful? I thought that was the GOP's wet dream! So, please tell me how you think they made money without 'any sort of integrity'? And is that true for all people who become wealthy beyond your expectations? I'm sorry, but I'm not going to hate or fear someone "just" based on the fact they made money. Show me wrongdoing (like they did with Maddoff) and I will judge then.

Where do you think they made their fortunes..... playing craps in Las Vegas? They both were and still are in a career of government pure and simple. Nobody is disputing the $millions they have received in speaking fees and thats corruption pure and simple. And yes it might even be legal....that does not make it right or moral.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...wing-hillary-clintons-challenge-a6986951.html

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/04/13/president-killary-paul-craig-roberts/

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/201...g-the-elite-elect-hillary-paul-craig-roberts/

 

[Rhea]

Wait, what? Speaking fees are corruption?
Since when?
And why?

I get speaking fees....

 

[RVonse]

Are you getting paid 6 figures an hour to speak?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Are you getting paid 6 figures an hour to speak?

6 figures to offer access, to throw a name around, offer a phone number. Any number of things to allow those who want something from Congress, the ability to have their voice heard.

 

[laughing dog]

I think it is hard to disagree that there isn't at least a strong whiff of sleaziness associated with the Clintons with their blatant influence peddling. It is hard to believe for me that Mrs. Clinton somehow was the only senior lawyer in the Rose law firm that avoided the sleaziness associated with Whitewater. It is hard to believe for me that Secretary of State Clinton was not influenced at all by the millions of dollars different foreign gov'ts donated to the Clinton Foundation. But even if my beliefs are misguided, I find it more than ironic that a supporter of Donald Trump is worried about corruption or sleaziness.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

But even if my beliefs are misguided, I find it more than ironic that a supporter of Donald Trump is worried about corruption or sleaziness.

Not ironic. Hypocritical and partisan.

The idea that a Trump supporter would care about Clinton's honesty, while supporting the guy who is sued over a pretty much fake school is just about par for what we'd expect of a Trump supporter.

 

[RavenSky]

4. So they started off as middle-class, except they didn't. Bill came from a single parent-single income household and through hard work and discipline eventually became a two term President of the United States. And now he reaps the benefits of that. When he left the Presidency, should he have faked his own death, gotten plastic surgery, and then took on a different identity to ensure he wouldn't be able to take advantage of his connections?

How much is the job of President of the US supposed to pay? Yes I know that it is our highest government job...but it is still a government job. Let us even be generous and say that without Washington connections, the Clintons should or would be living like professional doctors. That would be very far removed from their present status of wealth which more resembles that of a Columbian drug lord. One has to ask the question how this came about. And maybe this is all within the law but does this show any sort of integrity on their part?

so being wealthy - in and of itself - shows a LACK of integrity?

Do you apply this same standard to Trump or Mitt?