Homelessness Solutions

[Rhea]

Homelessness had gotten stabilized, briefly, but it’s on the rise again. Many agencies, states and the US fed gov’t have some plans to attack it. Some of these sound very promising to me because they operate at the intersection of the coldly pragmatic “it costs us less” and the humane and compassionate “it prevents homelessness in the first place”.

NPR has a story wiith the details:

The new plan includes a range of ways to boost the supply of affordable housing, as well as increase the number of emergency shelters and support programs. But its biggest change is a call for the "systematic prevention of homelessness," focusing on those who are struggling to keep them from losing their housing. It sets an ambitious goal to reduce the number of unsheltered people 25% by 2025, and calls on states and local governments to use it as a model.

Los Angeles County is trying out a computer model, developed by UCLA, that tracks data from eight different agencies. Caseworkers reach out to those who are flagged as struggling and then spend several months offering financial assistance and other support to stabilize the situation.

Olivet, who helped write the Biden homelessness plan, calls that a "sophisticated and interesting direction for us to go" and says the federal government can also do a better job of screening for risk. He says one focus should be groups most vulnerable to homelessness — people leaving prison, addiction or mental health treatment, or foster care.

"At those critical moments of transition, we have an opportunity. We know where people are," Olivet says. "We could bridge that in-patient, or incarceration, or foster care experience straight into housing. It does not have to result in shelter or living in a tent."

I feel that if some people could get over the reflexive combat of “giving those freeloaders something that I’m not getting” and embrace how little it costs to keep people off the streets versus caring for them once they are there, that we would be able to keep our society humane.


your thoughts?

 

[laughing dog]

I believe that a number of countries have embraced the policy that housing the homeless is both more humane and less costly than the traditional approaches. Having a home makes getting needed services and/or a job so much easier. If my memory serves, Finland has a very successful program of housing the homeless.

 

[Bronzeage]

I have lived as an urban pioneer and homeless people were a part of the environment. I came to know several well enough to understand why they were homeless. There is a wide spectrum of homeless people and I dealt with the extreme chronic homeless. These are men(no women) who have made a rational decision to live on the street. This maybe a use of the word "rational" with which some are not familiar.

It does sound strange to describe crazy behavior as rational, but it is what it is. They do not have to sleep in doorways or in bus stop shelters. There are places which offer the bare minimum of a shower and a bed for the night. This comes with severe restrictions, which include no smoking, drinking, or any other substance use. Also, everyone is woke up as 6am and has to be out the door by 7. The options are weighed and the decision is made to remain outside, where they have the perception of control. There are untreated mental illnesses at the root of most of this. It is these mental illnesses which also make it difficult, if not impossible to hold a job or maintain good relations with family.

Any solution for this segment of the homeless population will need to involve extremely effective salesmanship at the least and involuntary confinement at the worst.

 

[Toni]

Stabilizing the cost of rental properties is one strategy. Providing property tax rebates for properties rented to low income families and individuals and perhaps other incentives would help. Working people and families become homeless when they face one too many setbacks, often job loss, costly vehicle repairs/vehicle loss or medical bills.

Increasing the availability of congregate housing for those with addiction, working to overcome addiction and also those who have felony convictions. It seems obvious that this must be highly subsidized by governmental bodies. On site counseling for addiction and other issues, treatment t for mental health issues, on site jobs training/counseling, on site medical clinics/mental health clinics.

Potential for need for similar sites for families, with services offered for children: counseling, daycare and preschool. Tie to transportation.

I think it is important that people have their own private space such as a small efficiency ( larger space for families) with the ability to personalize.

Of course,
Provide incentives for lenders to offer low mortgage rates and flat out eliminate the possibility of mortgages with balloon payments or rates increases. Means tested relief from property taxes.

It's a discussion I was having with one of my sons. On one hand, everybody needs stable, safe housing. On the other: do we expect everyone to be comfortable if they know they live next door to a serial rapist? A child molester? An arsonist? Obviously people who have served their sentences need to live somewhere but do you want your grandchild living next door to someone with convictions for child abduction or molestation? Do you want your mother or grandmother or daughter living next door to someone who served a sentence for assault and battery plus rape?

It's difficult to balance the needs and rights of those who have served their sentences with the needs and rights of individuals who are within the demographic who was victimized by the felons.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I have lived as an urban pioneer and homeless people were a part of the environment. I came to know several well enough to understand why they were homeless. There is a wide spectrum of homeless people and I dealt with the extreme chronic homeless. These are men(no women) who have made a rational decision to live on the street. This maybe a use of the word "rational" with which some are not familiar.

It does sound strange to describe crazy behavior as rational, but it is what it is. They do not have to sleep in doorways or in bus stop shelters. There are places which offer the bare minimum of a shower and a bed for the night. This comes with severe restrictions, which include no smoking, drinking, or any other substance use. Also, everyone is woke up as 6am and has to be out the door by 7. The options are weighed and the decision is made to remain outside, where they have the perception of control. There are untreated mental illnesses at the root of most of this. It is these mental illnesses which also make it difficult, if not impossible to hold a job or maintain good relations with family.

Any solution for this segment of the homeless population will need to involve extremely effective salesmanship at the least and involuntary confinement at the least.

That's a good solution. Perhaps it misses the major problem, however, which is these unsightly and unhealthy encampments which pop up. There may in fact be places for folks to sleep but what about those that choose not to use the shelters? I think your solution is both economical and informed, but it doesn't deal with the encampments.

 

[bilby]

There are places which offer the bare minimum of a shower and a bed for the night. This comes with severe restrictions, which include no smoking, drinking, or any other substance use. Also, everyone is woke up as 6am and has to be out the door by 7. The options are weighed and the decision is made to remain outside, where they have the perception of control.

I would absolutely make the same choice, if these were my only options. And I don't smoke or use any drugs other than alcohol, and that very rarely.

One major problem with such shelters is that they're almost universally run by religious groups, and have harvesting of souls for their church as a major objective.

I will put up with significant discomfort rather than let some stranger with an authoritarianism fetish impose their arbitrary rules on me. Treating homeless adults like naughty wayward children is fucking despicable. But very Christian indeed.

 

[bilby]

Any solution for this segment of the homeless population will need to involve extremely effective salesmanship at the least and involuntary confinement at the least

Nah, it just requires that you give them options at every level, and stop trying to make them obey.

 

[Toni]

Any solution for this segment of the homeless population will need to involve extremely effective salesmanship at the least and involuntary confinement at the least

Nah, it just requires that you give them options at every level, and stop trying to make them obey.

That’s the sales pitch.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Stabilizing the cost of rental properties is one strategy. Providing property tax rebates for properties rented to low income families and individuals and perhaps other incentives would help. Working people and families become homeless when they face one too many setbacks, often job loss, costly vehicle repairs/vehicle loss or medical bills.

Increasing the availability of congregate housing for those with addiction, working to overcome addiction and also those who have felony convictions. It seems obvious that this must be highly subsidized by governmental bodies. On site counseling for addiction and other issues, treatment t for mental health issues, on site jobs training/counseling, on site medical clinics/mental health clinics.

Potential for need for similar sites for families, with services offered for children: counseling, daycare and preschool. Tie to transportation.

I think it is important that people have their own private space such as a small efficiency ( larger space for families) with the ability to personalize.

Of course,
Provide incentives for lenders to offer low mortgage rates and flat out eliminate the possibility of mortgages with balloon payments or rates increases. Means tested relief from property taxes.

It's a discussion I was having with one of my sons. On one hand, everybody needs stable, safe housing. On the other: do we expect everyone to be comfortable if they know they live next door to a serial rapist? A child molester? An arsonist? Obviously people who have served their sentences need to live somewhere but do you want your grandchild living next door to someone with convictions for child abduction or molestation? Do you want your mother or grandmother or daughter living next door to someone who served a sentence for assault and battery plus rape?

It's difficult to balance the needs and rights of those who have served their sentences with the needs and rights of individuals who are within the demographic who was victimized by the felons.

My daughter does this for a living. It's not a religious organization she works for. Her biggest problem is placing folks in rentals. These landlords that are supposed to be partnering with the county often say they have no vacancies. They want to avail themselves of whatever incentives the county may provide but make excuses when it comes to actually accepting the homeless.

I wonder if it would be practical for a willing county to simply buy individual condos/townhouses on the open market across the county and rent or rent to own them to folks. If nothing else, the county would enjoy the same price appreciation.

 

[Toni]

Stabilizing the cost of rental properties is one strategy. Providing property tax rebates for properties rented to low income families and individuals and perhaps other incentives would help. Working people and families become homeless when they face one too many setbacks, often job loss, costly vehicle repairs/vehicle loss or medical bills.

Increasing the availability of congregate housing for those with addiction, working to overcome addiction and also those who have felony convictions. It seems obvious that this must be highly subsidized by governmental bodies. On site counseling for addiction and other issues, treatment t for mental health issues, on site jobs training/counseling, on site medical clinics/mental health clinics.

Potential for need for similar sites for families, with services offered for children: counseling, daycare and preschool. Tie to transportation.

I think it is important that people have their own private space such as a small efficiency ( larger space for families) with the ability to personalize.

Of course,
Provide incentives for lenders to offer low mortgage rates and flat out eliminate the possibility of mortgages with balloon payments or rates increases. Means tested relief from property taxes.

It's a discussion I was having with one of my sons. On one hand, everybody needs stable, safe housing. On the other: do we expect everyone to be comfortable if they know they live next door to a serial rapist? A child molester? An arsonist? Obviously people who have served their sentences need to live somewhere but do you want your grandchild living next door to someone with convictions for child abduction or molestation? Do you want your mother or grandmother or daughter living next door to someone who served a sentence for assault and battery plus rape?

It's difficult to balance the needs and rights of those who have served their sentences with the needs and rights of individuals who are within the demographic who was victimized by the felons.

My daughter does this for a living. It's not a religious organization she works for. Her biggest problem is placing folks in rentals. These landlords that are supposed to be partnering with the county often say they have no vacancies. They want to avail themselves of whatever incentives the county may provide but make excuses when it comes to actually accepting the homeless.

I wonder if it would be practical for a willing county to simply buy individual condos/townhouses on the open market across the county and rent or rent to own them to folks. If nothing else, the county would enjoy the same price appreciation.

I think this is probably the best option although at the same time the county ( or city) will also be responsible for maintenance, etc. and there will be outcry’s of the government taking over the housing market, etc.

I think it is extremely important that such housing remain small—one to four houses close together in a neighborhood, either single family or duplexes. A 4 to 8 plex or small apartment building with efficiencies. Large enough and close enough together to make it practical to offer common services— laundry, day care, clinic, mental health services, job training, addiction treatment, etc. but not so large that everyone gives the neighborhood a wide berth to avoid contact with populations they find frightened.

The goal would be that this is transitional housing but some people would likely remain longer term while others, with the right support, could achieve enough economic security to be able to move into independent open market housing.

 

[Tigers!]

There are places which offer the bare minimum of a shower and a bed for the night. This comes with severe restrictions, which include no smoking, drinking, or any other substance use. Also, everyone is woke up as 6am and has to be out the door by 7. The options are weighed and the decision is made to remain outside, where they have the perception of control.

I would absolutely make the same choice, if these were my only options. And I don't smoke or use any drugs other than alcohol, and that very rarely.

One major problem with such shelters is that they're almost universally run by religious groups, and have harvesting of souls for their church as a major objective.

I will put up with significant discomfort rather than let some stranger with an authoritarianism fetish impose their arbitrary rules on me. Treating homeless adults like naughty wayward children is fucking despicable. But very Christian indeed.

And yet those homeless behaving as you describe is very authoritarian in its self. "I won't let anyone tell me what to do". Pot meet kettle.

The stupidly high housing prices are a major contributor to homelessness as is insecure work.

 

[bilby]

And yet those homeless behaving as you describe is very authoritarian in its self. "I won't let anyone tell me what to do". Pot meet kettle.

Seriously?

That's the antithesis of authoritarian.

Not letting others boss you around isn't imposing on them, and it takes astonishing doublethink to suggest that it could.

 

[Rhea]

And yet those homeless behaving as you describe is very authoritarian in its self. "I won't let anyone tell me what to do". Pot meet kettle.

You appear to have confused ”I won’t let anyone tell me what to do” with “I insist on telling others what to do.”

They are not the same thing, and only one is authoritarian.

 

[Metaphor]

And yet those homeless behaving as you describe is very authoritarian in its self. "I won't let anyone tell me what to do". Pot meet kettle.

You appear to have confused ”I won’t let anyone tell me what to do” with “I insist on telling others what to do.”

They are not the same thing, and only one is authoritarian.

I'm glad you agree pronoun demanders are authoritarian.

 

[Metaphor]

And yet those homeless behaving as you describe is very authoritarian in its self. "I won't let anyone tell me what to do". Pot meet kettle.

Seriously?

That's the antithesis of authoritarian.

Not letting others boss you around isn't imposing on them, and it takes astonishing doublethink to suggest that it could.

So you agree, nobody should be demanded to use certain pronouns for somebody else?

I'm glad you appear to think so.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

My daughter does this for a living. It's not a religious organization she works for. Her biggest problem is placing folks in rentals. These landlords that are supposed to be partnering with the county often say they have no vacancies. They want to avail themselves of whatever incentives the county may provide but make excuses when it comes to actually accepting the homeless.

I wonder if it would be practical for a willing county to simply buy individual condos/townhouses on the open market across the county and rent or rent to own them to folks. If nothing else, the county would enjoy the same price appreciation.

The problem is when you rent to a tenant with no assets you have no recourse if they wreck your place. Landlords like tenants with skin in the game.

 

[scombrid]

And yet those homeless behaving as you describe is very authoritarian in its self. "I won't let anyone tell me what to do". Pot meet kettle.

Seriously?

That's the antithesis of authoritarian.

Not letting others boss you around isn't imposing on them, and it takes astonishing doublethink to suggest that it could.

The doublethink seems to be right wing stock in trade. You are persecuting them if they can't tell you what to do or call yourself. You, demanding personal autonomy, are the real tyrant.

 

[Jayjay]

My daughter does this for a living. It's not a religious organization she works for. Her biggest problem is placing folks in rentals. These landlords that are supposed to be partnering with the county often say they have no vacancies. They want to avail themselves of whatever incentives the county may provide but make excuses when it comes to actually accepting the homeless.

I wonder if it would be practical for a willing county to simply buy individual condos/townhouses on the open market across the county and rent or rent to own them to folks. If nothing else, the county would enjoy the same price appreciation.

The problem is when you rent to a tenant with no assets you have no recourse if they wreck your place. Landlords like tenants with skin in the game.

The solution to this would be that if the government pays the rent, they'll also foot the bill for possible damages.

 

[ZiprHead]

And yet those homeless behaving as you describe is very authoritarian in its self. "I won't let anyone tell me what to do". Pot meet kettle.

Seriously?

That's the antithesis of authoritarian.

Not letting others boss you around isn't imposing on them, and it takes astonishing doublethink to suggest that it could.

So you agree, nobody should be demanded to use certain pronouns for somebody else?

I'm glad you appear to think so.

Be careful with your derail.

 

[Toni]

My daughter does this for a living. It's not a religious organization she works for. Her biggest problem is placing folks in rentals. These landlords that are supposed to be partnering with the county often say they have no vacancies. They want to avail themselves of whatever incentives the county may provide but make excuses when it comes to actually accepting the homeless.

I wonder if it would be practical for a willing county to simply buy individual condos/townhouses on the open market across the county and rent or rent to own them to folks. If nothing else, the county would enjoy the same price appreciation.

The problem is when you rent to a tenant with no assets you have no recourse if they wreck your place. Landlords like tenants with skin in the game.

The solution to this would be that if the government pays the rent, they'll also foot the bill for possible damages.

Yes. However, Loren does have a point. I think that it's best if tenants have some skin in the game, so to speak. Most people I know much prefer to pay their own way but some may find themselves priced out of the housing market altogether. For some people, it only takes a little bad luck to be behind in rent. At one point as a young adult, a case of mono made me miss a few days of work, which cost me those wages which meant I had to borrow $100 in order to make my half of the rent. I was lucky: I was enrolled in university which made no interest short term loans to students. I was also lucky I recovered fairly quickly--another day or too of missed work and I would have lost my job and not been able to pay back the loan or pay rent.

That said, there are individuals who are not ready to live in an apartment with a landlord and who really are better off, at least for a time, in something more akin to a dormitory (single occupancy only) with some basic furnishings, bathroom and small kitchenette.