How many gods have humans invented and what purpose do they serve?

[Jimmy Higgins]

Going back to the old days, I think one word could describe original religion, "routine". Humans crave routine, hate it when the routine is upended like when those satanic monsters at the grocery store move all the stuff around.

I think all intelligent mammalian life has a routine. Domestic cats and dogs certainly do. Whales are being observed to. Routine creates order, reduces disorder which causes confusion in our mind and our minds are not programmed to embrace disorder. Adherence to order allows for routine, routines in hunting, farming, any sort of aspect that would help guide the survival of a species. Routines would grow into larger societal things. The question to ask is at what point do we see a divergence from routines into animism turn theism. It was likely sociopaths.

 

[bilby]

Going back to the old days, I think one word could describe original religion, "routine". Humans crave routine, hate it when the routine is upended like when those satanic monsters at the grocery store move all the stuff around.

I think all intelligent mammalian life has a routine. Domestic cats and dogs certainly do. Whales are being observed to. Routine creates order, reduces disorder which causes confusion in our mind and our minds are not programmed to embrace disorder. Adherence to order allows for routine, routines in hunting, farming, any sort of aspect that would help guide the survival of a species. Routines would grow into larger societal things. The question to ask is at what point do we see a divergence from routines into animism turn theism. It was likely sociopaths.

Yeah, religion is what happens when people see that other people like routines, and think "I could totally use that to boss these guys around".

 

[Elixir]

Going back to the old days, I think one word could describe original religion, "routine". Humans crave routine, hate it when the routine is upended like when those satanic monsters at the grocery store move all the stuff around.

I think all intelligent mammalian life has a routine. Domestic cats and dogs certainly do. Whales are being observed to. Routine creates order, reduces disorder which causes confusion in our mind and our minds are not programmed to embrace disorder. Adherence to order allows for routine, routines in hunting, farming, any sort of aspect that would help guide the survival of a species. Routines would grow into larger societal things. The question to ask is at what point do we see a divergence from routines into animism turn theism. It was likely sociopaths.

Yeah, religion is what happens when people see that other people like routines, and think "I could totally use that to boss these guys around".

What a bunch of cynical fucks y'all are.
"What good are they?"
Well, for one thing, they CREATED the fucking UNIVERSE!
You don't hear that stupid question from anyone who never existed, DO YOU?

 

[Politesse]

"Anthropologists" estimate that at least 18,000 different gods, goddesses, and various animals or objects have been worshipped by humans since our species first appeared.

Hey now, don't blame us for that obviously made up statistic, I assure you we had nothing to do with it.

 

[southernhybrid]

Has anyone bothered to read any of the info in any of the links I've posted? I assume not, as nobody has said whether or not they've ever heard of the science called, "neurotheology", which is supposedly a branch of neuroscience that investigates why humans believe in gods and other supernatural myths. I was hoping someone might be interested in exploring this topic, but apparently not.

Apparently there is a tiny part of our brains that allow us to believe in gods etc. Why did we evolve to have the tendency to believe in mythology? Why do some of us not believe in these things? That's what I find interesting. Maybe if and when I have time, I'll see if I can find more info on neurotheology. I've always found neurology to be interesting and now there is actually a branch exploring how our brains allowed us to believe in things that have no evidence, other than emotional reactions and a desire to think there is some higher power out there in the universe, regardless if it was an animal, god, goddess or a one true god, like the patriarchal religions embrace. Imo, based on my reading regarding patriarchal societies, those religions often have the tendency to be the most harmful, especially if you're a woman.

 

[Elixir]

It is counter to reproductive success to be preoccupied with Big Questions. Religions alleviate the burden of wondering and worrying about how and why we are here.

 

[rousseau]

It is counter to reproductive success to be preoccupied with Big Questions. Religions alleviate the burden of wondering and worrying about how and why we are here we're going to get our next meal.

FIFY.

 

[Elixir]

It is counter to reproductive success to be preoccupied with Big Questions. Religions alleviate the burden of wondering and worrying about how and why we are here we're going to get our next meal.

FIFY.

I don't get it. Pursuit of the next meal/mate is always paramount in evolution. Wondering why and how we got here is just a distraction.

 

[Politesse]

Pursuit of the next meal/mate is always paramount in evolution. Wondering why and how we got here is just a distraction.

Social organisms don't just rely on their claws to get their next meal; we rely very heavily on social institutions and hierarchies for collective success.

 

[Politesse]

Has anyone bothered to read any of the info in any of the links I've posted? I assume not, as nobody has said whether or not they've ever heard of the science called, "neurotheology", which is supposedly a branch of neuroscience that investigates why humans believe in gods and other supernatural myths. I was hoping someone might be interested in exploring this topic, but apparently not.

Apparently there is a tiny part of our brains that allow us to believe in gods etc. Why did we evolve to have the tendency to believe in mythology? Why do some of us not believe in these things? That's what I find interesting. Maybe if and when I have time, I'll see if I can find more info on neurotheology. I've always found neurology to be interesting and now there is actually a branch exploring how our brains allowed us to believe in things that have no evidence, other than emotional reactions and a desire to think there is some higher power out there in the universe, regardless if it was an animal, god, goddess or a one true god, like the patriarchal religions embrace. Imo, based on my reading regarding patriarchal societies, those religions often have the tendency to be the most harmful, especially if you're a woman.

I've not heard of "neurotheology" before (which from its etymology sounds more like a theology based on the worship of nervous systems), but the neuroscience of religion has always been interesting to me, as is social neuroscience generally. Not so much because I have some apologetic drive to disprove religion with brain science, but because I find it an inherently interesting subject. Finding that religion is reflected in one's brain state would not disprove religious claims, in my view. Everything you do, perceive, or reason about is supported by your neural architecture, not just religious beliefs and rituals.

 

[Elixir]

Pursuit of the next meal/mate is always paramount in evolution. Wondering why and how we got here is just a distraction.

Social organisms don't just rely on their claws to get their next meal; we rely very heavily on social institutions and hierarchies for collective success.

True! Religions are great in that respect, as they dictate their own ascendance to to primary importance, which keeps really people in line.
I mean, your mortal enemy in the neighboring fiefdom might be able to torture and kill you (especially if you don't stick together!), but god can torture your sorry ass FOREVER. Can your neighbor do THAT?
Your choice, pal. Better to die defending our holy fiefdom (or attacking someone else's if you're flush enough) than to end up in HELL!

Anyhow, I don't see how the pre-scientific playbook has changed much, for religions. They have only adapted within their species*.

* creo reference

 

[Politesse]

True! Religions are great in that respect, as they dictate their own ascendance to to primary importance, which keeps really people in line.
I mean, your mortal enemy in the neighboring fiefdom might be able to torture and kill you (especially if you don't stick together!), but god can torture your sorry ass FOREVER. Can your neighbor do THAT?

One can devise a cynical take on any social institution, but at the end of the day they serve their functions.

 

[rousseau]

It is counter to reproductive success to be preoccupied with Big Questions. Religions alleviate the burden of wondering and worrying about how and why we are here we're going to get our next meal.

FIFY.

I don't get it. Pursuit of the next meal/mate is always paramount in evolution. Wondering why and how we got here is just a distraction.

I don't think it can be quickly generalized, because religious practice, in general, is so varied. But take Abrahamic religions, when you boil them down the secret sauce is 'God is watching out for you / this is God's plan'. This alleviates the natural worry we have about life's very real pressures - which usually means how we're going to survive / how we're going to continue feeding ourselves.

In Buddhism there is a more literal approach, which physical things can we do to ensure good Karma, and if life doesn't turn out the way we want it to, this is how we deal with it psychologically.

In some variations of Animism respect is shown to animal kills, to ensure future, successful hunts.

It's a gross generalization, but religion is more about our concerns with survival, than existentialism or ontology. Which is exactly central to evolution.

 

[Elixir]

I don't think it can be quickly generalized, because religious practice, in general, is so varied.

[bold added]
Practices vary far more than does the underlying playbook. Tribal bonding is tribal bonding and always requires the same social skeleton.
And I'm not so sure Buddhism even qualifies as a religion.

 

[steve_bank]

This might have some new info in it. According to at least the study in the link, which is an except from a book, there are some benefits to meditation or prayer. Read more. I don't feel like I need to meditate to clear my mind and help my memory, but I can accept it may work for some people. Some people obviously need some woo or some rituals to help them. "This is your Brain on Religion".

https://www.npr.org/2010/12/15/132078267/neurotheology-where-religion-and-science-collide

I think it has become mainstream medicine that meditation, a nebulous word, reduces stress hormones and stress.

Continually contemplating Jesus or a god or having an imagined conversion with a god can certainly be psychologically beneficial.

Ti me the benefits of religion are obvious. Reporting says alienation and loneliness are rising in kids through adults. Drugs and suicide.

 

[southernhybrid]

Has anyone bothered to read any of the info in any of the links I've posted? I assume not, as nobody has said whether or not they've ever heard of the science called, "neurotheology", which is supposedly a branch of neuroscience that investigates why humans believe in gods and other supernatural myths. I was hoping someone might be interested in exploring this topic, but apparently not.

Apparently there is a tiny part of our brains that allow us to believe in gods etc. Why did we evolve to have the tendency to believe in mythology? Why do some of us not believe in these things? That's what I find interesting. Maybe if and when I have time, I'll see if I can find more info on neurotheology. I've always found neurology to be interesting and now there is actually a branch exploring how our brains allowed us to believe in things that have no evidence, other than emotional reactions and a desire to think there is some higher power out there in the universe, regardless if it was an animal, god, goddess or a one true god, like the patriarchal religions embrace. Imo, based on my reading regarding patriarchal societies, those religions often have the tendency to be the most harmful, especially if you're a woman.

I've not heard of "neurotheology" before (which from its etymology sounds more like a theology based on the worship of nervous systems), but the neuroscience of religion has always been interesting to me, as is social neuroscience generally. Not so much because I have some apologetic drive to disprove religion with brain science, but because I find it an inherently interesting subject. Finding that religion is reflected in one's brain state would not disprove religious claims, in my view. Everything you do, perceive, or reason about is supported by your neural architecture, not just religious beliefs and rituals.

Some of the sites I found are religious ones, that seem to be making the point that neurotheology supports their beliefs, especially the Christian ones. But, some of the other sites are actually scientific ones, investigating why our brains are subject to believing in gods or other unproven myths.

I do think that forming communities is a part of why people believe in religious myths. Community is a very important thing for most humans, although there are some extreme introverts that seem perfectly happy to be alone and rarely interact with others. They do seem to be outliers and I've met a few atheists that I'd put in that group. One used to show up at the atheist meetups that were held in Atlanta. He rarely stayed more than a half an hour and that seemed enough to satisfy any need he may have had for community. Of course, communities can be formed without religious. Atheist and Humanist communes are becoming very common, although as I've said before, we cats can be hard to herd. I just find it fascinating that we may have a part of our brains that causes us to believe in religious mythology.

It's just hard for me, as a person who was raised in a very conservative version of Christianity, who then looked, even prayed for help to find for some other version of religion and finally came to terms with what I personally consider a fact that religion is all mythology. So, it's interesting to me to try and find reasons as to why we humans are so hung up on gods. One of the things I found interesting in one of the links I posted was despite there being over 18000 gods that people believed were real, over time, each god fades away and new ones appear. That study concluded that the gods remaining today, will eventually fade away and likely be replaced by new ones. I sure hope the new ones will be matrilineal ones. The patriarchal gods are pretty evil imo.

Anyway....thanks for your reply.

 

[rousseau]

I don't think it can be quickly generalized, because religious practice, in general, is so varied.

[bold added]
Practices vary far more than does the underlying playbook. Tribal bonding is tribal bonding and always requires the same social skeleton.
And I'm not so sure Buddhism even qualifies as a religion.

What makes you say so re: Buddhism?

 

[Elixir]

What makes you say so re: Buddhism?

One thing is that it's namesake is not considered a god, but rather an "enlightened being" or "great teacher" or some such.

 

[rousseau]

Has anyone bothered to read any of the info in any of the links I've posted? I assume not, as nobody has said whether or not they've ever heard of the science called, "neurotheology", which is supposedly a branch of neuroscience that investigates why humans believe in gods and other supernatural myths. I was hoping someone might be interested in exploring this topic, but apparently not.

Apparently there is a tiny part of our brains that allow us to believe in gods etc. Why did we evolve to have the tendency to believe in mythology? Why do some of us not believe in these things? That's what I find interesting. Maybe if and when I have time, I'll see if I can find more info on neurotheology. I've always found neurology to be interesting and now there is actually a branch exploring how our brains allowed us to believe in things that have no evidence, other than emotional reactions and a desire to think there is some higher power out there in the universe, regardless if it was an animal, god, goddess or a one true god, like the patriarchal religions embrace. Imo, based on my reading regarding patriarchal societies, those religions often have the tendency to be the most harmful, especially if you're a woman.

Sorry, reading is hard these days. I've discussed this exact thing a few times at this forum.

My take is that the 'tiny part of our brain' that allows us to believe in God likely isn't specific to religion. More likely, it serves a broader function that's critical to our survival and reproduction. It just also causes religious belief as a byproduct. But I really don't want to go into detail.

 

[southernhybrid]

Has anyone bothered to read any of the info in any of the links I've posted? I assume not, as nobody has said whether or not they've ever heard of the science called, "neurotheology", which is supposedly a branch of neuroscience that investigates why humans believe in gods and other supernatural myths. I was hoping someone might be interested in exploring this topic, but apparently not.

Apparently there is a tiny part of our brains that allow us to believe in gods etc. Why did we evolve to have the tendency to believe in mythology? Why do some of us not believe in these things? That's what I find interesting. Maybe if and when I have time, I'll see if I can find more info on neurotheology. I've always found neurology to be interesting and now there is actually a branch exploring how our brains allowed us to believe in things that have no evidence, other than emotional reactions and a desire to think there is some higher power out there in the universe, regardless if it was an animal, god, goddess or a one true god, like the patriarchal religions embrace. Imo, based on my reading regarding patriarchal societies, those religions often have the tendency to be the most harmful, especially if you're a woman.

Sorry, reading is hard these days. I've discussed this exact thing a few times at this forum.

My take is that the 'tiny part of our brain' that allows us to believe in God likely isn't specific to religion. More likely, it serves a broader function that's critical to our survival and reproduction. It just also causes religious belief as a byproduct. But I really don't want to go into detail.

Since I don't read that many threads, I'm sorry I missed what you said before. I'm not sure about your take. I guess I'll have to investigate this more when I have the time.