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How many Republicans have had Enough?

Trump can say anything he wants after the election. But if he loses the electoral college vote, the only way he stays in office is with the connivance of the Secret Service, the Military, the Supreme Court and Congress. Which I think is pretty much impossible.

No he just needs the Supreme Court to go along. The one that has, as of now, 5 Republicans. Just like 2000. If it’s at all close, he'll launch a dozen attacks just like Bush did, only far worse. The Court will step in again, and basically declare him a winner. And he may get another Supreme appointment soon, I fear.

SLD
 
What do the military even have to do with it? Is this just some contextless analogy to Ancient Rome? Trump doesn't use the military to build power, he's a con man. He uses public opinion and spin to get whatever he wants, and that includes a Supreme Court and Justice Dept now stacked with toadies.
 
What do the military even have to do with it? Is this just some contextless analogy to Ancient Rome? Trump doesn't use the military to build power, he's a con man. He uses public opinion and spin to get whatever he wants, and that includes a Supreme Court and Justice Dept now stacked with toadies.

I mean if it seriously came down to a coup, where Trump actually tried to just declare the election results illegitimate and refused to leave office. I don't think that would happen, and I think that even congressional Republicans wouldn't stand for it.

I don't think is Supreme Court picks have actually been toadies (not like his Justice Department picks). No doubt, they are all very conservative, but Trump isn't particularly conservative nor popular among those types, although they are happy to use him to their ends, since it seems that anyone who said something nice about him can get whatever they want from him (look at Kanye and Kim Kardashian, I think they played it really smart).
 
I don't think that would happen, and I think that even congressional Republicans wouldn't stand for it.

I don't think it's a likely scenario, but the most I'd expect from Republicans in Congress is for Susan Collins to be disappointed.
 
What do the military even have to do with it? Is this just some contextless analogy to Ancient Rome? Trump doesn't use the military to build power, he's a con man. He uses public opinion and spin to get whatever he wants, and that includes a Supreme Court and Justice Dept now stacked with toadies.

I'm trying to understand this comment that 'Trump will refuse to go'. I'm trying to understand how people think Trump is going to manage this. In what way could trump parlay "public opinion" and "spin" to keep him in the office of the President if he loses the electoral college? What precisely do you think Supreme Court would do, and how?

And if somehow, Trump lost the electoral college (and lost the popular vote), what power on earth could keep him in office? Do you believe the American institutions of power would be powerless against him? That even if the Supreme Court said he was rightfully President, that the rest of the country would go along with it? He'd be physically ejected from the White House.
 
What do the military even have to do with it? Is this just some contextless analogy to Ancient Rome? Trump doesn't use the military to build power, he's a con man. He uses public opinion and spin to get whatever he wants, and that includes a Supreme Court and Justice Dept now stacked with toadies.

I'm trying to understand this comment that 'Trump will refuse to go'. I'm trying to understand how people think Trump is going to manage this. In what way could trump parlay "public opinion" and "spin" to keep him in the office of the President if he loses the electoral college?

I reckon he'll be easily able to get a bunch of his AR-15/AK-wielding morons and Putin's thugs out in the streets flinging lead around, declare martial law to restore the order that was destroyed by the leftist election-riggers, demand a new election (and probably the head of the evil Biden) and appoint himself chief executive under some non-existent "wartime act".
Do you find that far-fetched? It's pretty much just a continuation of what is happening right now, as he blames "leftists" for the violence incited by Russian agitators and their white nationalist tools.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...bYBEh-BDLe5HQX4Jv9XIld7G_sivGGyRhkDoe96555QdU
 
Trump can say anything he wants after the election. But if he loses the electoral college vote, the only way he stays in office is with the connivance of the Secret Service, the Military, the Supreme Court and Congress. Which I think is pretty much impossible.

I hope.

At the end of the day, it comes down to the military.

I don't know that there would be a lot of support from the military for Bonespurs. The way he treated the beloved ship captain whose ship had become covid enfected, the 89 day release of the national guard troops one day before benefits would have kicked in, and a bunch of other ways he's dissed on the military.
 
What do the military even have to do with it? Is this just some contextless analogy to Ancient Rome? Trump doesn't use the military to build power, he's a con man. He uses public opinion and spin to get whatever he wants, and that includes a Supreme Court and Justice Dept now stacked with toadies.

I mean if it seriously came down to a coup, where Trump actually tried to just declare the election results illegitimate and refused to leave office.
He doesn't need to do that. The GOP can do the dirty work, contest the election, send it to the House, the states elect Trump.
 
I reckon he'll be easily able to get a bunch of his AR-15/AK-wielding morons and Putin's thugs out in the streets flinging lead around, declare martial law to restore the order that was destroyed by the leftist election-riggers, demand a new election (and probably the head of the evil Biden) and appoint himself chief executive under some non-existent "wartime act".
Do you find that far-fetched?

Yes, I find that far-fetched.
 
He WILL (a near certainty) assert that the election results are not valid if he loses narrowly. (Bets accepted!)
I say he will assert the results are not valid even if he looses in a landslide. Just wonder if Secret Service will have to drag him out on January 20
He did argue the results even when he won, so, no bet.
 
I reckon he'll be easily able to get a bunch of his AR-15/AK-wielding morons and Putin's thugs out in the streets flinging lead around, declare martial law to restore the order that was destroyed by the leftist election-riggers, demand a new election (and probably the head of the evil Biden) and appoint himself chief executive under some non-existent "wartime act".
Do you find that far-fetched?
Yes, I find that far-fetched.
The good news is that these defenders of freedom, with their guns and all, haven't come out to defend America from these protesters.

Of course, that'd require the ultra-right-wingers to stand in line with the cops... and we all know how much they love the police.
 
I reckon he'll be easily able to get a bunch of his AR-15/AK-wielding morons and Putin's thugs out in the streets flinging lead around, declare martial law to restore the order that was destroyed by the leftist election-riggers, demand a new election (and probably the head of the evil Biden) and appoint himself chief executive under some non-existent "wartime act".
Do you find that far-fetched?
Yes, I find that far-fetched.
The good news is that these defenders of freedom, with their guns and all, haven't come out to defend America from these protesters.

I beg to differ. They're out there breaking windows and setting fires.
 
At least the FBI is...oh, who gives a fuck anymore. It's all fucked and just because a black guy was one of the best Presidents we've ever had.

It's a sure bet this guy isn't the only one and that there are many such sleeper cell units as part of the Trumputin terrorist network all over the fuucking place. Neo-Nazi Rinaldo Nazzaro running US militant group The Base from Russia.
 
Holy Hell, dude - what we have NOW is "distinctly fantasy-level".

There have been military coups in the past. Parliaments have been dissolved at gunpoint. Old orders (themselves sometimes undemocratic) have been swept aside.

But the idea that Trump will be able to do anything at all meaningful to stay in the Presidency if he is voted out seems to me an extraordinary denial of the stability and power of American institutions and conventions.

As Elixir said... what we have NOW is a loss of "Stability and power of American institutions and conventions"... are you completely blind to that?

That said, I do agree it will be impossible for him to stay in office if he loses the electoral college by more than whatever has caused a recount before... While at the same time, he will indeed do anything and everything he can to stay, as the alternative is to find himself indicted for State-level crimes.
 
Holy Hell, dude - what we have NOW is "distinctly fantasy-level".

There have been military coups in the past. Parliaments have been dissolved at gunpoint. Old orders (themselves sometimes undemocratic) have been swept aside.

But the idea that Trump will be able to do anything at all meaningful to stay in the Presidency if he is voted out seems to me an extraordinary denial of the stability and power of American institutions and conventions.

As Elixir said... what we have NOW is a loss of "Stability and power of American institutions and conventions"... are you completely blind to that?

I don't know where Meta lives, but I want to move there. I bet they have cupcake trees and little faeries that come and make breakfast for you, and cops that serenade the citizens to sleep every evening..

That said, I do agree it will be impossible for him to stay in office if he loses the electoral college by more than whatever has caused a recount before... While at the same time, he will indeed do anything and everything he can to stay, as the alternative is to find himself indicted for State-level crimes.
<bold added>
"More than whatever" only means "more than Trump thinks he can convince his moron followers to believe was due to illegals, dead people, forgeries, underage fraud voters and miscellaneous undefined election-rigging".
The troubles he will find if he leaves office will not be limited to State-level crimes.
 
The image of Trump refusing to vacate after losing the election may be farfetched and unprecedented, but those two adjectives describe the entire Trump Era.
A few observations, in no special order:
1- SCOTUS, in Bush v. Gore, voted 5-4 to halt the Florida recount and install Bush as President, with all 5 Republican appointees joining in the decision and the 4 Democrat appointees dissenting. The court today is more conservative.
2 - Trump said at the final debate in 2016 that he would not necessarily accept the reported results of the election. He stated at his first Presidential press conference that he had indeed won the popular vote over Hillary, but that fraudulent votes had given her a majority. Since he is already making noise about fraud with mailed-in votes, he will naturally complain if he loses that the increase in mail-ins demands an investigation. He has an AG who backs him with extreme partisanship. So, is it simply a fantasy that Barr would compile a case for the Supreme Court that demanded that the election results be set aside so that a new process could be put in place to certify the election results in the various states? Is it unthinkable that the present court would consider the case and rule for Trump?
3 - The man himself would have no problem whatever throwing the country into disarray. There is no precedent for Trump in our history. Please tell me what would restrain a man who has already done away with norms of Presidential behavior ('shit', 'son of a bitch', goddamn' are now terms of Presidential public discourse; he relishes speaking ill of the dead, implying that Rep. Dingell is in hell, that Lori Klausutis was murdered, and that John McCain doesn't deserve his respect, caring nothing when their families ask him to stop; eighteen thousand documented lies and counting, including six full years of Birther lies) and more to the point, norms of legal and ethical governance (writing a $130,000 hush money check, paying a $2 million fine for running a fraudulent foundation, paying a $25 million settlement to make his diploma mill scandal go away, requesting political intel from foreign governments, defying Congressional oversight, calling for war crimes, pardoning convicted war criminals...) I know I'm leaving a lot out, but these come to mind straight away. The man is a cheerful degenerate.
To contest the election (if nothing else, for his own ego), he would need Barr on his side, and that's a given. He would then need to have a case submitted to the Supreme Court. That's a gamble Trump might take. Helpful quote: "Then I have Article 2, where I have the right to do whatever I want as President."
No, this is not a normal scenario, but Trump's presidency is completely abnormal. The institutions that should block the actions of an out-of-control executive haven't been all that vigorous so far.
 
Holy Hell, dude - what we have NOW is "distinctly fantasy-level".

There have been military coups in the past. Parliaments have been dissolved at gunpoint. Old orders (themselves sometimes undemocratic) have been swept aside.

But the idea that Trump will be able to do anything at all meaningful to stay in the Presidency if he is voted out seems to me an extraordinary denial of the stability and power of American institutions and conventions.

As Elixir said... what we have NOW is a loss of "Stability and power of American institutions and conventions"... are you completely blind to that?

Geographically, I'm even farther away from the US than Metaphor is--so maybe I'm missing something--but US legal institutions don't seem so weak that Trump could stay in power despite being voted out.

The only route that seems remotely, very remotely possible is that the Supreme Court rules that the election result doesn't count and Trump remains legally in power. However, if the courts decide the new guy is the real President then Trump doesn't have enough support to stage a coup.
 
People get so confused when they compare Trump to other world leaders that they know. He really does not play by the normal "rules".
 
Geographically, I'm even farther away from the US than Metaphor is--so maybe I'm missing something--but US legal institutions don't seem so weak that Trump could stay in power despite being voted out.

The only route that seems remotely, very remotely possible is that the Supreme Court rules that the election result doesn't count and Trump remains legally in power. However, if the courts decide the new guy is the real President then Trump doesn't have enough support to stage a coup.
You and Meta Would be well served to read ideologyhunter’s post above.
 
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