HOW NOT TO DIE Michael Greger MD

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Was wondering if anyone here has read this book yet or heard of it. I'm through about a hundred pages and so far have found it fascinating. Basically the dude is telling us to eat plants and toss the meat, fish, poultry. He backs up his advice with studies.

It's only a coincidence that I started reading this book as my wife bought it about a week after I started on a vegan diet. But I am enjoying the read.

HOW NOT TO DIE

 

[Malintent]

Was wondering if anyone here has read this book yet or heard of it. I'm through about a hundred pages and so far have found it fascinating. Basically the dude is telling us to eat plants and toss the meat, fish, poultry. He backs up his advice with studies.

It's only a coincidence that I started reading this book as my wife bought it about a week after I started on a vegan diet. But I am enjoying the read.

HOW NOT TO DIE

Veganism is not a diet, it is an ideological eating disorder.

Vegetarianism, on the other hand, IS a diet... but a bad choice in my opinion.

If you want to live forever, find another universe to live in. You are going to die, and it is going to suck. get over it and enjoy a wide variety of consumables... the key to health (and everything else, for that matter) is in moderation.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, what's the use of living to one hundred if you can't enjoy some steaks along the way? Life is about quality, not quantity.

 

[Trausti]

Humans evolved to eat meat. It gave us a bigger brain, smaller gut, and greater food options (you get lots more calories from meat than leaves). Why you'd want to forego this evolutionary advantage from your ancestors is bewildering.

 

[Bomb#20]

... I started on a vegan diet. But I am enjoying the read.

Veganism is not a diet, it is an ideological eating disorder.

Wallace: Won't you come in? We were just about to have some cheese.
Wendolene: Oh no, not cheese. Sorry. Brings me out in a rash. Can't stand the stuff.
Wallace: Not even Wensleydale?
Wendolene: Got to be on our way. Goodbye.
[The door closes.]
Wallace: What's wrong with Wensleydale?
Wallace: Talking of which...
Wallace: All the more for us!

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Veganism is not a diet, it is an ideological eating disorder.

Do you have any science to back that up?

 

[J842P]

Humans evolved to eat meat. It gave us a bigger brain, smaller gut, and greater food options (you get lots more calories from meat than leaves). Why you'd want to forego this evolutionary advantage from your ancestors is bewildering.

Because it might not be healthier in the long term. And by "long term" I mean by the time you reach middle age. Certainly, if you want to reach old age gracefully, there is good evidence that foregoing all animal products will help you get there as healthily as possible, avoiding the chronic illnesses that plague post-industrial society. It's like smoking: yea, it makes you cooler and you'll probably have some fun, but for some people, the increased risk of chronic illnesses isn't worth it.

 

[rousseau]

A plant-based diet is good for longevity, a well-rounded diet including meat is good for mental health in the present.

 

[Underseer]

Was wondering if anyone here has read this book yet or heard of it. I'm through about a hundred pages and so far have found it fascinating. Basically the dude is telling us to eat plants and toss the meat, fish, poultry. He backs up his advice with studies.

It's only a coincidence that I started reading this book as my wife bought it about a week after I started on a vegan diet. But I am enjoying the read.

HOW NOT TO DIE

Veganism is not a diet, it is an ideological eating disorder.

Vegetarianism, on the other hand, IS a diet... but a bad choice in my opinion.

If you want to live forever, find another universe to live in. You are going to die, and it is going to suck. get over it and enjoy a wide variety of consumables... the key to health (and everything else, for that matter) is in moderation.

There are lots of valid reasons to eat less meat or no meat. Sure, you have to pay extra attention to what you eat to make sure you're getting protein and other nutrients from other sources because humans are naturally omnivorous, and if you don't do it, you could end up with worse health rather than better health.

But there are certainly other considerations. For example, it takes much more farmland to produce a pound of beef than a pound of wheat. If more human beings chose to eat meat less frequently, we could feed more humans with less land, which in turn means less natural habitat destroyed, less fossil fuel used in farming, etc.

I agree with you on vegans. I can't help but notice that the arguments they use are much more poorly supported than the arguments used by vegetarians, and they have a penchant for wild claims. It's an ideology rather than a diet choice.

 

[Keith&Co.]

All i know is, i get more life points for shooting the meat than for shooting the lettuce.



Got to figure 1st person shooter games are in the position to know these things.

 

[Malintent]

Veganism is not a diet, it is an ideological eating disorder.

Do you have any science to back that up?

What do you call those little white things in your mouth, again? Specifically, those four that are third from the front?

Vegetarianism is about removing meat from your diet.
Veganism is about being nice to animals

I don't need science to back up that veganism is not a diet. I only need a dictionary.

 

[Malintent]

Veganism is not a diet, it is an ideological eating disorder.

Vegetarianism, on the other hand, IS a diet... but a bad choice in my opinion.

If you want to live forever, find another universe to live in. You are going to die, and it is going to suck. get over it and enjoy a wide variety of consumables... the key to health (and everything else, for that matter) is in moderation.

There are lots of valid reasons to eat less meat or no meat. Sure, you have to pay extra attention to what you eat to make sure you're getting protein and other nutrients from other sources because humans are naturally omnivorous, and if you don't do it, you could end up with worse health rather than better health.

But there are certainly other considerations. For example, it takes much more farmland to produce a pound of beef than a pound of wheat. If more human beings chose to eat meat less frequently, we could feed more humans with less land, which in turn means less natural habitat destroyed, less fossil fuel used in farming, etc.

I agree with you on vegans. I can't help but notice that the arguments they use are much more poorly supported than the arguments used by vegetarians, and they have a penchant for wild claims. It's an ideology rather than a diet choice.

Yup. Less meat (than the average American consumes) is more healthy. No meat at all is not more healthy - and if not done correctly, dangerous. Not eating honey because it represents exploitation of bees* is simply not a 'diet', it is a philosophy (that I disagree with).

Bees produce far more honey than they need (when resources are not imbalanced), specifically to 'offer up' the excess to animals that would otherwise destroy their hive to get to the 'brood'. the brood honey is for their consumption. the honey they leave in the outer combs is produced for the bears and us.

So-called 'vegan' farmers kill thousands of rabbits, snakes, and mice in the production of their crop, via farm equipment used to harvest that shreds these animals and their homes.

The philosophy is inconsistent and untenable.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Do you have any science to back that up?

What do you call those little white things in your mouth, again? Specifically, those four that are third from the front?

Vegetarianism is about removing meat from your diet.
Veganism is about being nice to animals

I don't need science to back up that veganism is not a diet. I only need a dictionary.

Veganism is about not eating any animal products. Seems qualified as a diet to me. You're probably just being pedantic.

 

[bilby]

What do you call those little white things in your mouth, again? Specifically, those four that are third from the front?

Vegetarianism is about removing meat from your diet.
Veganism is about being nice to animals

I don't need science to back up that veganism is not a diet. I only need a dictionary.

Veganism is about not eating any animal products. Seems qualified as a diet to me. You're probably just being pedantic.

Most vegans I have encountered don't limit their restrictions on animal products to diet alone; They also typically do not use animal products for non-dietary purposes such as clothing and footwear.

Refusing to wear wool because wool production is exploiting sheep, is not a diet; it's a religion.

 

[abaddon]

Veganism is about not eating any animal products. Seems qualified as a diet to me. You're probably just being pedantic.

Most vegans I have encountered don't limit their restrictions on animal products to diet alone; They also typically do not use animal products for non-dietary purposes such as clothing and footwear.

Refusing to wear wool because wool production is exploiting sheep, is not a diet; it's a religion.

When it’s not dietary veganism (“nondairy vegetarianism") then it’s ethical veganism that seeks to avoid using animals as commodities for a variety of reasons.

The connection with religion seems a bit strained. That looks like someone having an ideological upset about people who wish to not view animals as commodities.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Do you have any science to back that up?

What do you call those little white things in your mouth, again? Specifically, those four that are third from the front?

Vegetarianism is about removing meat from your diet.
Veganism is about being nice to animals

I don't need science to back up that veganism is not a diet. I only need a dictionary.

I've never equated veganism with being nice to animals. Never even heard of that.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I've never equated veganism with being nice to animals. Never even heard of that.

Lucky you.
I've been lectured to at a party by a vegan for wearing a leather belt. Exactly because it offended her veganism. Then she found out they were serving ice cream and went to lecture the hostess about milk being a maltreatment of cows.

Veganism is probably as encompassing a label as atheist, but it does include those who object to all forms of subjugating animals to man's needs. Food, clothing, goat-drawn carts, dog racing, pets and putting hamsters inside those plastic soccer balls then giving your kids mini-golf putters.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I've never equated veganism with being nice to animals. Never even heard of that.

Lucky you.
I've been lectured to at a party by a vegan for wearing a leather belt. Exactly because it offended her veganism. Then she found out they were serving ice cream and went to lecture the hostess about milk being a maltreatment of cows.

Veganism is probably as encompassing a label as atheist, but it does include those who object to all forms of subjugating animals to man's needs. Food, clothing, goat-drawn carts, dog racing, pets and putting hamsters inside those plastic soccer balls then giving your kids mini-golf putters.

Thanks for the heads up in case - I meet any crazies. Here's an example of what Greger presents.

Type 2 diabetics were placed on a plant based diet and weighed everyday. If they started losing weight they were made to eat more food... The result: Even with no weight loss, subjects on the plant based diet saw their insulin requirements cut by 60%... Further, half of the diabetics were able to get off insulin altogether, despite no change in body weight - just by eating a healthier diet.

This was not over months or years, either. This was after eating a plant based diet for an average of only sixteen days.

Now I think everyone is aware that most type 2 diabetics are their own worst enemy, but it illustrates the thrust of his book.

He seems to have two main points to make: 1) Doctors are not nutritionally aware enough to help patients with chronic illness when it comes to diet. 2) Patients are largely unaware that their diets are largely to blame for their chronic illnesses, and that eating a plant based diet is in their best interests.

To those two points I might add that he makes the case that there is no medical profit to be made if someone is healthy, and a plant based diet is the best diet.

Also, he cites every study. There are no anecdotes.

 

[EricK]

Lucky you.
I've been lectured to at a party by a vegan for wearing a leather belt. Exactly because it offended her veganism. Then she found out they were serving ice cream and went to lecture the hostess about milk being a maltreatment of cows.

Veganism is probably as encompassing a label as atheist, but it does include those who object to all forms of subjugating animals to man's needs. Food, clothing, goat-drawn carts, dog racing, pets and putting hamsters inside those plastic soccer balls then giving your kids mini-golf putters.

Thanks for the heads up in case - I meet any crazies. Here's an example of what Greger presents.

Type 2 diabetics were placed on a plant based diet and weighed everyday. If they started losing weight they were made to eat more food... The result: Even with no weight loss, subjects on the plant based diet saw their insulin requirements cut by 60%... Further, half of the diabetics were able to get off insulin altogether, despite no change in body weight - just by eating a healthier diet.

This was not over months or years, either. This was after eating a plant based diet for an average of only sixteen days.

Now I think everyone is aware that most type 2 diabetics are their own worst enemy, but it illustrates the thrust of his book.

He seems to have two main points to make: 1) Doctors are not nutritionally aware enough to help patients with chronic illness when it comes to diet. 2) Patients are largely unaware that their diets are largely to blame for their chronic illnesses, and that eating a plant based diet is in their best interests.

To those two points I might add that he makes the case that there is no medical profit to be made if someone is healthy, and a plant based diet is the best diet.

Also, he cites every study. There are no anecdotes.

Since meat does not elicit much, if any, insulin response in the body, it is very unlikely that this diabetes result is anything to do with giving up meat, and far more likely to be to do with giving up sugar.

 

[Malintent]

I've never equated veganism with being nice to animals. Never even heard of that.

Lucky you.
I've been lectured to at a party by a vegan for wearing a leather belt. Exactly because it offended her veganism. Then she found out they were serving ice cream and went to lecture the hostess about milk being a maltreatment of cows.

Veganism is probably as encompassing a label as atheist, but it does include those who object to all forms of subjugating animals to man's needs. Food, clothing, goat-drawn carts, dog racing, pets and putting hamsters inside those plastic soccer balls then giving your kids mini-golf putters.

I have heard the rally chant, "Milk is Murder!" more often than I care for.