barbos
Contributor
Wow, what a clown, what a stupid stupid clown this so-called president of Ukraine.
Country is being invaded by a major Nuclear State and he hopes for "emergency" (I guess) NATO membership. This guy is deluded.
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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?
- Thread starter Harry Bosch
- Start date
Country is being invaded by a major Nuclear State and he hopes for "emergency" (I guess) NATO membership. This guy is deluded.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
While I disagree with most things you are saying Barbos. You do highlight something regarding the news we are given in the west. Putin today is the Devil/Hitler. It's the bogeyman we scare children with. Any attack on or mistreatment of ethnic Russians are ignored in western press. Unless Russia/Russians are the bad guys the western press isn't interested. This effect has of course only been amplified by the introduction of social media.
It's pretty obvious that there's so much to the story of the invasion of Ukraine westerners aren't aware of. That said, Russia is a dictatorship with state controlled media. If westerners aren't given the full story, that's nothing compared to the drip drip drip of truth Russians are getting.
Russians are in the dark because of their idiot dictator and Westerners are in the dark because of our willful ignorance. It makes discussing this on an open international forum, very difficult. I'm right now dating a Ukrainian woman. Speaking to her, she thinks anybody with any power in that part of the world are probably corrupt and evil. In a situation like that, it's hard to pick sides.
I still think, just because of world peace we need to curb stomp Putin ASAP and return all seized land to Ukraine (including Crimea). And do it fast. Before China grabs Taiwan, when they think nobody is watching.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
In other news, the Russians are now shelling Kiev. That thing Putin said about this being a peace keeping mission to defend Luhansk and Donetsk... I guess it wasn't. Putin is clearly going to try to grab all of Ukraine.
barbos
Contributor
And then you go on and agree with 90% of what I am saying.
That's mostly untrue. Formally Putin does have inordinate amount of power and pretty much everything he suggests gets approved by the parliament. But this is only an appearance. He and parliament critters do a lot of talks internally and in the end ARE dependent of public opinion. Lots of unpopular but meaningful measures simply don't get to his desk because they worry about public opinion.
Basically Putin is an educated monarch, like Peter the Great but more rational and less flamboyant.
That's not perfect system and not sustainable in the long run but it's better than idiot monarchy or idiot anarchy like Ukraine seems to have.
Controlled media, I have talked about it. TV is in total control, but the rest no more control than in the West. TV is for old people. So all you need to do is to wait and your acute putinosis will resolve itself naturally.
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barbos
Contributor
That may not be entirely correct. Because some of the "shelling" is actually Ukrainian Army blowing up their own bridges, I guess they read in their manual that would help to slow down invaders.
And Russian forces have been bombing ukrainian millitary bases all around Ukraine since the hour 1.
And mission has multiple objectives now, one of which is denazification.
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barbos
Contributor
You have a knack for non sequitur.
You do realize that you suggest Nuclear War? And that you contradict yourself in the same post. You accepted that there is more to the story than the western media says and then you immediately parroted western media garbage.
I noticed you always do that. You agree and then go 180 in your conclusion.
barbos
Contributor
Speaking of "Putin studies" and your Media.
Watching CNN (with time delay from yesterday). It's unbelievable how deluded and out of touch with reality your CIA experts and CNN personalities are.
They claim Ukraine will put up a fight (nope, not gonna happen and is not happening)
That Putin looks isolated (bullcrap, he just paranoid about C19, has been since the beginning)
Ukraine is more western blah-blah-blah. They are not more western than russians.
In fact on average they are less western than Russians. Just because some nazi idiot says he "agrees" with you does not mean he IS like you, it does not even mean he actually agrees with you. You people suck at reading people. One more time, nazi are not your friends, Saakashvili is not "your" guy, he is an asshole who used you to get to power. Afghan "politicians" who you thought you could trust were not "your" guys.
You suck!
Reminded yearly 90s and american religious "missionaries" coming to Russia. Yeah, you know, these people. I was a student and some other students who spoke some english would make some money by working as interpreters, they had to play along with your folk. Did not make them less atheist though. I did not really speak english, but that was interesting to see actual americans in person. They choose wrong place for their missionary work though. The same is true with your "democracy" missionaries. You parachute to a country and ask "Who is for democracy here?!"
The first one who responds is 100% fraudster and is going to take advantage of you.
Watching CNN (with time delay from yesterday). It's unbelievable how deluded and out of touch with reality your CIA experts and CNN personalities are.
They claim Ukraine will put up a fight (nope, not gonna happen and is not happening)
That Putin looks isolated (bullcrap, he just paranoid about C19, has been since the beginning)
Ukraine is more western blah-blah-blah. They are not more western than russians.
In fact on average they are less western than Russians. Just because some nazi idiot says he "agrees" with you does not mean he IS like you, it does not even mean he actually agrees with you. You people suck at reading people. One more time, nazi are not your friends, Saakashvili is not "your" guy, he is an asshole who used you to get to power. Afghan "politicians" who you thought you could trust were not "your" guys.
You suck!
Reminded yearly 90s and american religious "missionaries" coming to Russia. Yeah, you know, these people. I was a student and some other students who spoke some english would make some money by working as interpreters, they had to play along with your folk. Did not make them less atheist though. I did not really speak english, but that was interesting to see actual americans in person. They choose wrong place for their missionary work though. The same is true with your "democracy" missionaries. You parachute to a country and ask "Who is for democracy here?!"
The first one who responds is 100% fraudster and is going to take advantage of you.
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Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
Putin himself has threatened the rest of the world with nuclear war. The scary thing is that a lot of people are beginning not to see him as the rational actor that they thought he was earlier. His ideas on Russian history and destiny are delusional irredentist fantasy. At some point, he may feel emboldened to attack a NATO country, thinking that the West simply won't dare to use nuclear weapons to defend those states, especially the Baltic states and maybe some of the Eastern European NATO members that were formerly in the Warsaw Pact. And he could be right in the beginning, only to find that things got out of control.
Putin really seems to see himself on a mission to restore past Russian glory, and he is motivated by a deep sense of shame over the collapse of the Soviet Union, which he was supposed to protect and defend as a younger officer in the KGB. IOW, he may be prone to dangerous miscalculations that could actually trigger an escalation up to the use of nuclear weapons by one side or the other--especially by him, if he sees his dreams fading in the same way that they did for Hitler, a similar dictator motivated by extreme revanchist fantasies.
barbos
Contributor
CIA "expert" just flat out lie about Georgia and Ukraine and Putin motivations.
Flat out lies. This is shit you people are eating and ask for more. This is disgusting,
CNN should be ashamed of themselves.
Flat out lies. This is shit you people are eating and ask for more. This is disgusting,
CNN should be ashamed of themselves.
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
Typically, there is no reference by barbos that would clue us into the incident involving the unnamed CIA "expert" or what he said. It might be that someone else has a clue and can explain it for him. I suspect that it is just a matter of searching recent Russian news outlets to find the connection, but I'm too tired right now to bother.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
That's delusional. Journalists who speak up are often targeted and shut down on trumped up charges. That creates self censoring of the media. No matter how idealistic they may be. They all have families and don't want to die. It's an amazingly effective way to censor the media. That's how media censorship works in the middle-east and their preposterous blasphemy laws.
In Europe in the 18-hundreds there was explicit censorship. But the rules were clear. You can write this. Not this. There was no insecurity among the press of what they can and can't write. Those arrested were so because they went out of their way, to get arrested. But that's not how Russian censorship works. It's way more evil. The aim is to make journalists insecure and err on the side of caution. Certain "safe" journalists are given a free pass to write edgy stuff, so the regime lets them keep doing it, and uses them as a figleaf to "prove" there is a no censorship. It's a more effective way to control the media, but it is evil.
barbos
Contributor
Are you going to provide examples, actual examples?
There are bunch of "journalists" who were designated as foreign agents for getting paid by the West, I read some of the their stuff and got impression that some of the info they publish could not have come from any other place other than western intelligence. Does not mean it's not true, it's just they being fed from abroad.
Dead journalists and politicians are exclusively linked to Chechnya, not to the federal government. That's the real problem which government is not doing enough to solve. But I can't say it is easy to solve problem. Basically these people are batshit crazy. You say something critical about chechens you need to immediately immigrate it seems because some idiot will try to kill you. People make up anecdotes about that. Better not to touch this subject at all if you are a public figure.
This is unfortunate side of their culture, you just can't criticize anybody there, unless you are a boss. Any criticism is viewed as an insult.
if it's an opinion piece which does not touch Chehnya then you will be fine.
having said that, I never disputed that the west has better freedom of the press.
It is ironic that your press choose to not report facts which go against your neocon governments agenda.
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barbos
Contributor
That's unexpected to say the least:
Georgia IS NOT going to join any sanctions against Russia.
Georgia IS NOT going to join any sanctions against Russia.
barbos
Contributor
Операция на Украине. Хроника второго дня - Газета.Ru
Завершились вторые сутки спецоперации России на Украине. В последние часы в Киеве слышны взрывы, российские войска без сопротивления взяли Мелитополь. США и европейские страны ввели новый пакет санкций, который затронул лично президента Владимира Путина. «Газета.Ru» рассказывает о хронике событий.
www.gazeta.ru
More than 150 ukrainian soldiers surrendered. They promise not to fight against russian troops and let go.
barbos
Contributor
About 82 soldiers who surrendered:
eadaily.com
Article claims that Zelensky claimed that they fought and died and he awarded all of them posthumously. Could be fake of course but twitter does not forget.
I can't watch it but apparently he did say that. Somebody is lying.
Of course it's possible that some of them fought and did die, russian news does mention that.
Спецоперация России на Украине: сдался гарнизон ВСУ на острове Змеиный в Черном море: EADaily
«В районе острова Змеиный сложили оружие и добровольно сдались подразделению российских вооруженных сил 82 украинских военнослужащих. В настоящее время с них берется подписка об отказе от участия в боевых действиях. В ближайшее время они будут возвращены к своим семьям»… 25 февраля 2022. EADaily
Article claims that Zelensky claimed that they fought and died and he awarded all of them posthumously. Could be fake of course but twitter does not forget.
I can't watch it but apparently he did say that. Somebody is lying.
Of course it's possible that some of them fought and did die, russian news does mention that.
barbos
Contributor
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
As the story changes, barbos supplies the new reasons as if they were always reasons.
SigmatheZeta
Senior Member
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- Generally, I am rooted in both ancient Epicurean and ancient Pyrrhonist sentiments, although I am somewhat sympathetic toward the intentions behind ancient Cynicism.
The barely vertebrate sycophants are overdue for someone to black their eye for them. They are a useless race of boot-licking alcoholics. I detest authoritarian ass monkeys on my own soil, and I detest them elsewhere, also.
Furthermore, I have been consistent in my criticism of my own country's government whenever it ignores established treaties and treats our allies like servants. I am actually outraged over the United States government imposing demands upon China, which is in a profoundly awkward position in this affair and stands to lose face regardless of the outcome of this debacle. China is not our servant. They are a power accountable unto themselves, and while I think they know damn well we would black their eye for them if they ever threatened our Pacific assets, it is an offense against their rights as a sovereign nation to ask that they jump like obedient servants. My own country's contemptible behavior toward China is part of why their current government won't assist our allies in this matter. My country's government has done more to undermine their indigenous democratic movement than any knuckle-dragging Legalist throwback on their own goddamn soil, not that I like them any better. Democracy there dates back to Dr. Sun Yat-sen. The People's Republic of China would not exist without Dr. Sun Yat-sen, whom they still call Father of the Nation, but if anything is likely to cause the people that live in that nation to forget their indigenous pro-democratic heritage, it's the obsession of my own country's government with treating every country we interact with like a goddamn satrap. Barking orders at the leaders of other countries constitutes imperialism, and I have contempt for it.
I do not pardon the Russian government for doing the same thing to their neighbors. Ukraine insisted upon their independence from Moscow back in 2005. They insisted upon their independence from Moscow in 2014. Moscow's tentacles are clearly not welcome in their country. They never would have started the discussion about joining NATO if not for Putin's aggression. Otherwise, I suspect they would be telling BOTH Moscow and Brussels to lick each other's asses and call each other butt-buddies. I like Kyiv a hell of a lot better than I like Brussels because they've had a strong anarchist movement there for more than a century. That point is lost on many people that haven't listened to a damn thing I've said.
Oh, right, because nobody listens to a tiny talking dragon. Yes, I'm still on that, and FYIAD.
The thing that would give me the most satisfaction humanly possible would be if, after Putin established his proxy in Kyiv, the anarchists there proved my own goddamn point that the same people that would leap to obey an indigenous authoritarian government would be just as obedient to a foreign dictator, and that's WHY you need people in your own country that value their liberty and their autonomy. The sorts of people that grow accustomed to obedience are just as ready to lick the boots of the government in Vichy. If Putin is dislodged by an indigenous civil uprising, then that would give me considerably greater satisfaction than if he were expunged by foreign intervention.
In any case, I have contempt for any country's imperialism. That does not exclude Putin's imperialism. Fuck him, and fuck his ass monkeys.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
Do you think that is possible without Russian war with NATO?
Harry Bosch
Contributor
Yea, barbos has been wrong about Putin from day one in this thread. He stated over and over that Putin wouldn't invade. He has to change his excuses each day to fit the new narrative or atrocity committed by Russia.