How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[skepticalbip]

skepticalbip, If ukrainian solders surrender (which they do) they are not getting killed.

Again the killing is because your brothers don't think like Putin wants them to. They are not allowed to think differently. All they have to do is think the way Putin demands and accept him as their "dear leader", in other words surrender and they won't be killed. Otherwise kill your brother.

 

[barbos]

Apparently Putin has learned from America's culture war. Slurs don't have to make sense. Here calling someone a Nazi, racist, etc. has lost all meaning because the slur only means someone who disagrees with the accuser.

OK, Nazi in Ukraine is primarly concerned with getting rid of Russia and communists, jews is a side show. Of course the fact that most jews were communists did not help them in the past.

 

[skepticalbip]

Apparently Putin has learned from America's culture war. Slurs don't have to make sense. Here calling someone a Nazi, racist, etc. has lost all meaning because the slur only means someone who disagrees with the accuser.

OK, Nazi in Ukraine is primarly concerned with getting rid of Russia and communists, jews is a side show. Of course the fact that most jews were communists did not help them in the past.

Oh, so now you see the invasion as a pogrom? What happened to Ukrainians are your Russian brothers?

 

[barbos]

skepticalbip, If ukrainian solders surrender (which they do) they are not getting killed.

Again the killing is because your brothers don't think like Putin wants them to. They are not allowed to think differently. All they have to do is think the way Putin demands and accept him as their "dear leader", in other words surrender and they won't be killed. Otherwise kill your brother.

We can go all day long like that. What's the point?
Yes, if you (mainly US) create a nation of brainwashed imbeciles who chant "Moiskalyaku na gilyakuy" and who think that Ukraine is 400,000 years old with Ukrainians are the best race of people out which other degenerated races developed then yes! Russia will eventually react to that and some killing will unfortunately happen.

And before you protest, yes, I slightly exaggerated race theories of these cretrins.
Did you read the article in Russian I posted? Ukrainian "patriots" had some support among russian liberal opposition to Putin, and lost it all.
Think about that. Even opposition to Putin pretty much supports "invasion" of Ukraine.

You lost .... Russia. You totally lost it. And you are about to lose Ukraine.
All because of your asshole neocons and their "genius" machinations.

 

[skepticalbip]

skepticalbip, If ukrainian solders surrender (which they do) they are not getting killed.

Again the killing is because your brothers don't think like Putin wants them to. They are not allowed to think differently. All they have to do is think the way Putin demands and accept him as their "dear leader", in other words surrender and they won't be killed. Otherwise kill your brother.

We can go all day long like that. What's the point?

The point is that you are spewing nonsense propaganda that you have been indoctrinated with without thinking through what you are saying.

 

[Jayjay]

I was amused by Putin's opinions he gave in his speech yesterday. He insists that Ukraine doesn't have a national identity. He says that Ukraine shouldn't even be a country because it is all Russian already. But in the same speech he insists that he "had no choice" but to recognize the breakaway regions because of the horrible persecution the people there were suffering under. You know, because they speak Russian and not Ukranian and have a Russian culture... Irony.

For the record, I have not listened to it. I heard some hardcore russian patriots describe contents of the speech in one phrase "We've had enough!"

Anyway, you should save your irony for something better.
Russian language war is weird. A lot of these pro-ukrainian language patriots do not actually speak ukrainian very well or at all. Ukrainian Army famously use russian. There was a big scandal at the Olympics when athletes were ordered to use ukrainian (even internally), some publicly refused and said we are using russian and that's the end of it.
The reason for this is simple, most active and insane ukrainian trumpers base of 2014 coup were nazi and ukrainian language for them was single most uniting issue.
The current Government will have another maidan or at least lose elections if they decide to ease up on language. They are stuck with it the same way republican party is stuck with trumpism. In reality russian is widely used, it's just these incidents with these crazy imbeciles which happens from time to time.
The other languages (hungarian, romanian) are in somewhat similar situation. At one point they made a bizarre distinction between EU languages (hungarian, romanian) and the non EU languages (russian), but in practice they ban these too. They are afraid of losing these territories as well, and they are not wrong. Hungary and Romania (I think too) distributes their passports in these places the same way Russia does. Of course CNN does not mention that at all, it goes against official narrative.

The language issue is a pretext that has been blown out of proportion by Russian propaganda. And in any case it doesn't justify a foreign invasion. You didn't see Hungray and Romania invading parts of Ukraine. Distributing passports was not the problem, it was sending troops, annexing territory, and propping up separationist regimes. Nobody would've complained if Russia had merely distributed passports to every Russian-speaking citizen of Ukraine and welcomed them to move to Russia.

Amid all the gaslighting by Putin and hid sycophants, one has to realize that propping up a language is a key part of any nationalist movement. When people don't speak the language, harsh measures need to be taken. I'm reminded how Eliezer Ben-Yehuda helped revive the dead Hebrew language by raising his son solely in it. A shitty thing do to a child (imagine if someone raised their children in, say, Klingon) but rational from point of view of Ben-Yehuda's ideology. Same with Ukraine. The Russian-speaking minority may have felt slighted by the changes in language laws, but their cultural identity or their own language was never at stake in the same way it was and is for the Ukrainians.

Ukraine as a Country reminds me a Cargo Cult.

All countries and nationalities are at first. The difference to a cargo cult is that when countries build their languages, symbols, mythology, ... eventually the metaphorical planes actually do start to land.

 

[barbos]

skepticalbip, If ukrainian solders surrender (which they do) they are not getting killed.

Again the killing is because your brothers don't think like Putin wants them to. They are not allowed to think differently. All they have to do is think the way Putin demands and accept him as their "dear leader", in other words surrender and they won't be killed. Otherwise kill your brother.

We can go all day long like that. What's the point?

The point is that you are spewing nonsense propaganda that you have been indoctrinated with without thinking through what you are saying.

No I am not. I post incontrovertible facts which show that you are wrong.
That's why you chose to simply ignore and repeat the same "Invasion!" song.

 

[skepticalbip]

skepticalbip, If ukrainian solders surrender (which they do) they are not getting killed.

Again the killing is because your brothers don't think like Putin wants them to. They are not allowed to think differently. All they have to do is think the way Putin demands and accept him as their "dear leader", in other words surrender and they won't be killed. Otherwise kill your brother.

We can go all day long like that. What's the point?

The point is that you are spewing nonsense propaganda that you have been indoctrinated with without thinking through what you are saying.

No I am not. I post incontrovertible facts which show that you are wrong.
That's why you chose to simply ignore and repeat the same "Invasion!" song.

Odd, I would think that Russian news would have said something about the Russian army in the process of invading Ukraine for the last couple days and killing some of your Russian brothers.

 

[barbos]

The language issue is a pretext that has been blown out of proportion by Russian propaganda. And in any case it doesn't justify a foreign invasion. You didn't see Hungray and Romania invading parts of Ukraine. Distributing passports was not the problem, it was sending troops

And distribution of passports was a pretext for a lot of ukrainian complains.
Sending troops? OK, Ukraine (nazi part of Ukraine) sent troops to Checnnya before this crap too. Do you know who else supported chechen "separatists"? Whole damn EU and US.


We can go all day long listing things other side did too.

Does it bother you that you did not know any of that? You learned it from me, not from your free press, you learned from a guy who lives in a country where free press does not exist.

 

[barbos]

skepticalbip, If ukrainian solders surrender (which they do) they are not getting killed.

Again the killing is because your brothers don't think like Putin wants them to. They are not allowed to think differently. All they have to do is think the way Putin demands and accept him as their "dear leader", in other words surrender and they won't be killed. Otherwise kill your brother.

We can go all day long like that. What's the point?

The point is that you are spewing nonsense propaganda that you have been indoctrinated with without thinking through what you are saying.

No I am not. I post incontrovertible facts which show that you are wrong.
That's why you chose to simply ignore and repeat the same "Invasion!" song.

Odd, I would think that Russian news would have said something about the Russian army in the process of invading Ukraine for the last couple days.

Yes, invasion, and russian public is fine with it. Even liberal opposition to Putin is fine with it. Good job you! You united Putin and his opposition to himself!
Invasion? Do you even realize how ironic this is? Monika Levinskly Yugoslavia, Kosovo.
I limited myself to Europe.

 

[Gospel]

Wake me when we start the next WWIII triggering crisis.

-Black countries-

 

[Toni]

Isn't the President of Ukraine Jewish himself? Hard to de-Nazify a Jew i would have thought.

It's Ukraine, half of the population including nazi have some jewish ancestry.

Quite a few of 100% jews managed to become party members in Nazi Germany. of course they kept it secret.

I think you are a bit confused about the part that was kept secret: it was the Jewish part. Yes, some Jews hid their faith/ancestry in all sorts of places in order to escape the concentration camps,

 

[Toni]

skepticalbip, If ukrainian solders surrender (which they do) they are not getting killed.

Again the killing is because your brothers don't think like Putin wants them to. They are not allowed to think differently. All they have to do is think the way Putin demands and accept him as their "dear leader", in other words surrender and they won't be killed. Otherwise kill your brother.

We can go all day long like that. What's the point?

The point is that you are spewing nonsense propaganda that you have been indoctrinated with without thinking through what you are saying.

No I am not. I post incontrovertible facts which show that you are wrong.
That's why you chose to simply ignore and repeat the same "Invasion!" song.

Odd, I would think that Russian news would have said something about the Russian army in the process of invading Ukraine for the last couple days.

Yes, invasion, and russian public is fine with it. Even liberal opposition to Putin is fine with it. Good job you! You united Putin and his opposition to himself!
Invasion? Do you even realize how ironic this is? Monika Levinskly Yugoslavia, Kosovo.
I limited myself to Europe.

I guess all those crowds that are being reported as protestors are…supporters? The Russians decrying the invasion of Ukraine are… playing opposite day?

 

[barbos]

I think you are a bit confused about the part that was kept secret: it was the Jewish part. Yes, some Jews hid their faith/ancestry in all sorts of places in order to escape the concentration camps,

It's more than that. They enlisted army and nazi party.
So, I am not the one confused here. It's ukrainian nazi who don't know that

 

[barbos]

skepticalbip, If ukrainian solders surrender (which they do) they are not getting killed.

Again the killing is because your brothers don't think like Putin wants them to. They are not allowed to think differently. All they have to do is think the way Putin demands and accept him as their "dear leader", in other words surrender and they won't be killed. Otherwise kill your brother.

We can go all day long like that. What's the point?

The point is that you are spewing nonsense propaganda that you have been indoctrinated with without thinking through what you are saying.

No I am not. I post incontrovertible facts which show that you are wrong.
That's why you chose to simply ignore and repeat the same "Invasion!" song.

Odd, I would think that Russian news would have said something about the Russian army in the process of invading Ukraine for the last couple days.

Yes, invasion, and russian public is fine with it. Even liberal opposition to Putin is fine with it. Good job you! You united Putin and his opposition to himself!
Invasion? Do you even realize how ironic this is? Monika Levinskly Yugoslavia, Kosovo.
I limited myself to Europe.

I guess all those crowds that are being reported as protestors are…supporters? The Russians decrying the invasion of Ukraine are… playing opposite day?

I have not seen one, especially with a name.
You are deluded if you think russian public does not support invasion on principle.
Lots of people worried about sanctions and rationality, but as far as core issues, they are on board, we don't need that kind of Ukraine.

And why this fake outrage anyway? Where was it during invasion of Yugolsavia and annexation of Kosovo?

 

[barbos]

Funny. I always wonder what americans and russians talk about on ISS during times like these. The head of russian "NASA" Rogozin said that, In case of total breakup of relations ISS will fall on Canada, US, China or India. I noticed that he omitted possibility of falling on Russia, I wonder why.
...
Oh, I did not read it to the end where he said "ISS orbit correction depends on russian Soyuz spaceships" That's very funny, very, very funny

 

[Toni]

skepticalbip, If ukrainian solders surrender (which they do) they are not getting killed.

Again the killing is because your brothers don't think like Putin wants them to. They are not allowed to think differently. All they have to do is think the way Putin demands and accept him as their "dear leader", in other words surrender and they won't be killed. Otherwise kill your brother.

We can go all day long like that. What's the point?

The point is that you are spewing nonsense propaganda that you have been indoctrinated with without thinking through what you are saying.

No I am not. I post incontrovertible facts which show that you are wrong.
That's why you chose to simply ignore and repeat the same "Invasion!" song.

Odd, I would think that Russian news would have said something about the Russian army in the process of invading Ukraine for the last couple days.

Yes, invasion, and russian public is fine with it. Even liberal opposition to Putin is fine with it. Good job you! You united Putin and his opposition to himself!
Invasion? Do you even realize how ironic this is? Monika Levinskly Yugoslavia, Kosovo.
I limited myself to Europe.

I guess all those crowds that are being reported as protestors are…supporters? The Russians decrying the invasion of Ukraine are… playing opposite day?

I have not seen one, especially with a name.
You are deluded if you think russian public does not support invasion on principle.
Lots of people worried about sanctions and rationality, but as far as core issues, they are on board, we don't need that kind of Ukraine.

And why this fake outrage anyway? Where was it during invasion of Yugolsavia and annexation of Kosovo?

The outrage isn't fake.

I guess I get around more than you do.

 

[Toni]

I think you are a bit confused about the part that was kept secret: it was the Jewish part. Yes, some Jews hid their faith/ancestry in all sorts of places in order to escape the concentration camps,

It's more than that. They enlisted army and nazi party.
So, I am not the one confused here. It's ukrainian nazi who don't know that

Yes. To hide. To save themselves. They also hid their children in Catholic orphanages. They hid in cellars and attics. They hid all sorts of places. To live.

 

[barbos]

The outrage isn't fake.

It is, if you were not outraged by bombing of Yugoslavia and DID NOT demand sanctions against US.

 

[barbos]

I think you are a bit confused about the part that was kept secret: it was the Jewish part. Yes, some Jews hid their faith/ancestry in all sorts of places in order to escape the concentration camps,

It's more than that. They enlisted army and nazi party.
So, I am not the one confused here. It's ukrainian nazi who don't know that

Yes. To hide. To save themselves. They also hid their children in Catholic orphanages. They hid in cellars and attics. They hid all sorts of places. To live.

So, what are you trying to say? That Ukrainians with swastika tattoos who name streets after inividuals who murdered jews, poles and russians and collaborated with Hitler are not nazi?