How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Harry Bosch]

CIA "expert" just flat out lie about Georgia and Ukraine and Putin motivations.
Flat out lies. This is shit you people are eating and ask for more. This is disgusting,
CNN should be ashamed of themselves.

Please humor me, what is the CNN lie that you are referring to? Although your credibility regarding what is right and what is wrong regarding Russia is questionable.

 

[Harry Bosch]

In other news, the Russians are now shelling Kiev. That thing Putin said about this being a peace keeping mission to defend Luhansk and Donetsk... I guess it wasn't. Putin is clearly going to try to grab all of Ukraine.

That may not be entirely correct. Because some of the "shelling" is actually Ukrainian Army blowing up their own bridges, I guess they read in their manual that would help to slow down invaders.

And Russian forces have been bombing ukrainian millitary bases all around Ukraine since the hour 1.

And mission has multiple objectives now, one of which is denazification.

The Nazi's are now in Russia.

 

[barbos]

In other news, the Russians are now shelling Kiev. That thing Putin said about this being a peace keeping mission to defend Luhansk and Donetsk... I guess it wasn't.

As the story changes, barbos supplies the new reasons as if they were always reasons.

Yea, barbos has been wrong about Putin from day one in this thread. He stated over and over that Putin wouldn't invade. He has to change his excuses each day to fit the new narrative or atrocity committed by Russia.

Actually I updated my prediction after his long lecture. And I have never said he would not invade. I said ukrainians knew he would not invade. So I was no more wrong than ukrainian government.

But As I said, after the speech I updated to "Ukrainian government should be worried"

 

[barbos]

CIA "expert" just flat out lie about Georgia and Ukraine and Putin motivations.
Flat out lies. This is shit you people are eating and ask for more. This is disgusting,
CNN should be ashamed of themselves.

Please humor me, what is the CNN lie that you are referring to? Although your credibility regarding what is right and what is wrong regarding Russia is questionable.

Considering that your credibility is zero....

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I have no idea how "the west" should respond, because I can't understand what - if anything - Russia figures to gain by this.
My suspicion is that there is little interest in conquering and occupying Ukraine, and the whole charade is a distractive display of nationalism, by which Putin perhaps hopes to elevate his own domestic standing, which has reportedly been suffering of late.

Projecting again? No one in Russia considers it a great idea.

Putin does not need to invade anyone. All he needs is to start North Stream 2 and wait until all contracts with Ukrainian pipelines expire.
Ukraine and US, on the other hand, realize that they need some drastic shit to prevent that.

barbos, this was your first post in the thread from back in December. "No one in Russia considers it a great idea."

 

[barbos]

I have no idea how "the west" should respond, because I can't understand what - if anything - Russia figures to gain by this.
My suspicion is that there is little interest in conquering and occupying Ukraine, and the whole charade is a distractive display of nationalism, by which Putin perhaps hopes to elevate his own domestic standing, which has reportedly been suffering of late.

Projecting again? No one in Russia considers it a great idea.

Putin does not need to invade anyone. All he needs is to start North Stream 2 and wait until all contracts with Ukrainian pipelines expire.
Ukraine and US, on the other hand, realize that they need some drastic shit to prevent that.

barbos, this was your first post in the thread from back in December. "No one in Russia considers it a great idea."

yes, situation changed. Ukraine provided drastic shit. Nord Stream 2 stopped.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

So the Russian position is clear: Russia is going to unilaterally start a war.

If it becomes clear that NATO is taking over Ukraine then yes. That's what Putin implied in 2008.

barbos, this was one of your posts from next day in December. NATO wasn't taking over Ukraine. "Taking over" is pretty vague anyway and strong ties to Ukraine would not be taking it over, nor would that be justification for an invasion.

 

[barbos]

So the Russian position is clear: Russia is going to unilaterally start a war.

If it becomes clear that NATO is taking over Ukraine then yes. That's what Putin implied in 2008.

barbos, this was one of your posts from next day in December. NATO wasn't taking over Ukraine. "Taking over" is pretty vague anyway and strong ties to Ukraine would not be taking it over, nor would that be justification for an invasion.

What do you mean NATO wasn't taking over Ukraine?
And It IS his justification for invasion. Why is hard to understand for you?

 

[Rhea]

It’s been interesting watching your commentary on this, Barbos.

So I was no more wrong than ukrainian government

Yes, you were just as wrong as the Ukrainian government that you deride.

Harry just asked you “what lies.” Instead of saying, “let’s talk about the lies, here they are,” you post this throwaya nothing post.

Considering that your credibility is zero....

Why not answer the question and be in a meaningful discussion?


But I’d like to sort of catch up on this thread a bit; so recap you position for me here - or make corrections to what I think I’m hearing.

I think I’m hearing you say that
- you support this invasion
- because “NATO was taking over Ukraine” and this is bad for Russia
- you think all the Ukranians do, too
- The same Ukranians who are blowing up their own bridges
- and keeping citizens from fleeing the city
- that they don’t need to flee because they welcome Putin’s tanks?
- and everyone saw it coming except the Ukrainian government and you


Is that your position?
(edited to add second bullet)

 

[Jarhyn]

So the Russian position is clear: Russia is going to unilaterally start a war.

If it becomes clear that NATO is taking over Ukraine then yes. That's what Putin implied in 2008.

barbos, this was one of your posts from next day in December. NATO wasn't taking over Ukraine. "Taking over" is pretty vague anyway and strong ties to Ukraine would not be taking it over, nor would that be justification for an invasion.

What do you mean NATO wasn't taking over Ukraine?
And It IS his justification for invasion. Why is hard to understand for you?

there is no justification for unilateral war.

No amount of NATO being in that country by that country's own request, justifies crossing that border.

None.

Russia not liking NATO being near its borders but not on them does not justify going right up to that border with an invasion force and then crossing it.

 

[Rhea]

I mean, it feels like Putin’s actions are sorta, you know, validating why Ukraine wanted to ask NATO for protection in the first place, yah?

 

[barbos]

No amount of NATO being in that country by that country's own request, justifies crossing that border.

Tell that to President Kennedy. I feel like I am arguing with cats.
Going in circles.

 

[Harry Bosch]

CIA "expert" just flat out lie about Georgia and Ukraine and Putin motivations.
Flat out lies. This is shit you people are eating and ask for more. This is disgusting,
CNN should be ashamed of themselves.

Please humor me, what is the CNN lie that you are referring to? Although your credibility regarding what is right and what is wrong regarding Russia is questionable.

Considering that your credibility is zero....

My predictions regarding Putin have been spot on. Read the entire thread. I've been predicting this sad Russian invasion from day one. After the black flag operation was exposed by Biden, I predicted that Putin would just invent reasons to invade, such as the absurd excuse to "denaziify" Ukraine! Your predictions have been to consistently say that Russia wouldn't invade, that there was an anti-Russian anxiety, that the world is unfairly picking on poor Putin. You've been wrong from day one.

 

[Jarhyn]

No amount of NATO being in that country by that country's own request, justifies crossing that border.

Tell that to President Kennedy. I feel like I am arguing with cats.
Going in circles.

I would tell that to Kennedy if I had been in a position to know and understand what was going on at the time.

And I am telling it to you now.

 

[barbos]

Harry just asked you “what lies.” Instead of saying, “let’s talk about the lies, here they are,” you post this throwaya nothing post.

The usual propaganda lies - Putin being afraid of democracy. Then weird claim that was Putin was vehemently against Ukraine membership in EU, this is just bizarre and patently false claim, coming from CIA guy. Then lies about Georgia, same thing.

Putin said fine go to EU, we just need to renegotiate current trade agreements so that we are not getting EU stuff into Russia without taxes. You know, the trick Belarus is like doing.
The red line for Putin has always been NATO, period, not democracy, not EU.
Russia loves EU.

 

[barbos]

No amount of NATO being in that country by that country's own request, justifies crossing that border.

Tell that to President Kennedy. I feel like I am arguing with cats.
Going in circles.

I would tell that to Kennedy if I had been in a position to know and understand what was going on at the time.

And I am telling it to you now.

Well, nobody told that to Kennedy, your one of the greatest presidents and behaving exactly like Putin.

 

[Rhea]

The red line for Putin has always been NATO, period, not democracy, not EU.

What about NATO is he scared of, do you think?

 

[barbos]

My predictions regarding Putin have been spot on

I don't care about your predictions. I don't even care that much about my own predictions. I care for the facts and explanations.

 

[Jarhyn]

No amount of NATO being in that country by that country's own request, justifies crossing that border.

Tell that to President Kennedy. I feel like I am arguing with cats.
Going in circles.

I would tell that to Kennedy if I had been in a position to know and understand what was going on at the time.

And I am telling it to you now.

Well, nobody told that to Kennedy, your one of the greatest presidents and behaving exactly like Putin.

I would love to have been a president before. I never have been, though, and plenty of people DID tell Kennedy that.

 

[barbos]

The red line for Putin has always been NATO, period, not democracy, not EU.

What about NATO is he scared of, do you think?

I already told you. The goal of NATO is encircle Russia and eventually suffocate it.
Putin himself says NATO in Ukraine is close enough for decapitating strike.
I personally think he does not believe that NATO would ever attack Russia.
So it's about surrounding Russia with puppet NATO states and harass Russia into submission. That's my theory. And I think Putin has the same theory.

And his latest "lecture" is consistent with that thinking. He clearly frustrated with all that harassment coming from Ukraine too. Don't forget about events in Kazakhstan. That too pissed off Putin and russians in general. He did not speak specifically about Kazakhstan, he mentioned it in general terms that all former republics choose to build their identity on trashing Russia. You know what? It pisses me off too!
So, your fucking CIA experts and CNN talking heads lie about russian views, harass and now worry about mental state of Putin. Well, if you had not behaved like total assholes you would not have to decipher his mental state.
Your retarded media is complicit in this crime. I posted a number of decent journalists who warn about danger of media being complicit with government. You ignored all of them.

Now, read this post over and over again until you remember it. I am sick and tired explaining the same thing over and over again.