barbos
Contributor
No, it is patently thinkable because at least one US senator have thought about that.
So you are wrong again.
-
Features
How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?
- Thread starter Harry Bosch
- Start date
So you are wrong again.
barbos
Contributor
For the record that guy is not me, he does not have russian accent.
I do, though you will likely confuse it with something else.
So find the time and watch it.
I do, though you will likely confuse it with something else.
So find the time and watch it.
barbos
Contributor
And watch it to the end including questions from the audience.
And then find one thing he mentions I have not already mentioned and vice versa.
And then find one thing he mentions I have not already mentioned and vice versa.
Lumpenproletariat
Veteran Member
- Joined
- May 9, 2014
- Messages
- 2,599
- Basic Beliefs
- ---- "Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts."
Here's my question, to which I expect an answer, given the title:
What would be the result if a plebiscite were held in east Ukraine? Would east Ukrainians vote to stay in Ukraine, or vote for independence? Or would they vote to join Russia?
How do we know what the sentiment is of east Ukrainians?
Is the West willing to submit to such a plebiscite, allowing pro-Russian Ukrainians to separate from Ukraine, if their number is large enough? If the West is not willing to have such a plebiscite and respect the results (whatever they might be), how can we blame Russia for its intervention there?
My guess is that they would not vote to join Russia. But if that's true, why should we be against a plebiscite? Why shouldn't we propose it? Are we afraid how the vote might turn out?
What would be the result if a plebiscite were held in east Ukraine? Would east Ukrainians vote to stay in Ukraine, or vote for independence? Or would they vote to join Russia?
How do we know what the sentiment is of east Ukrainians?
Is the West willing to submit to such a plebiscite, allowing pro-Russian Ukrainians to separate from Ukraine, if their number is large enough? If the West is not willing to have such a plebiscite and respect the results (whatever they might be), how can we blame Russia for its intervention there?
My guess is that they would not vote to join Russia. But if that's true, why should we be against a plebiscite? Why shouldn't we propose it? Are we afraid how the vote might turn out?
barbos
Contributor
I meant that video answers all your questions, but you need to watch it. And it does answer your particular question.
Jarhyn
Wizard
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2010
- Messages
- 15,627
- Gender
- Androgyne; they/them
- Basic Beliefs
- Natural Philosophy, Game Theoretic Ethicist
"Here is some conveniently packaged propaganda that I found, watch this without any background nor transcription"
Lolno. I watch maybe one in ten YouTube videos my own husband sends me, if you think I'm going to watch some sleepy asshole that Putin dug up to pay to blather out the Russian line about this crap well, I'm sure there are some affordable bridges that Putin has recommended, too.
I would rather you tell me about those, instead, because while I will neither buy your propaganda feed nor your bridges, at least it's rather entertaining to watch someone sell bridges; propaganda is just boring all around.
barbos
Contributor
Nice to see you Melania.
Some sleepy asshole,......Ooooo-keeeeey
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2002
- Messages
- 42,073
- Location
- Frozen in Michigan
- Gender
- Old Fart
- Basic Beliefs
- Don't be a dick.
Thread unlocked after cleanup.
Elixir
Made in America
Harry Bosch
Contributor
I can summarize for you: the west is at fault for Putin's aggression (we're always at fault); the only solution is to give in to Putin, not allow Ukraine into Nato, not defend Ukraine, allow it to be a buffer state. Sacrifice Ukraine to satisfy hurt Russian feelings (last sentence my take).
Barbos: my question to you is how many countries should be sacrificed to satisfy Putin? Sweden? Finland? These are non-Nato countries also threatened by Putin's aggression. How about Poland? The Baltic states? I know that invading a weaker neighbor delivers a cheaper and faster ratings boost for Putin than say Putin actually doing something beneficial to help their citizens, many of whom live on $200 a month. But how much should be allowed?
Jarhyn
Wizard
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2010
- Messages
- 15,627
- Gender
- Androgyne; they/them
- Basic Beliefs
- Natural Philosophy, Game Theoretic Ethicist
Leave it to the antidemocratic Russian toeing the Russian line to hold up a political blatherer that completely disregards social paradigms in international relationships, the Ayn Rand of international policy.
LOL. Go back to selling bridges.
Elixir
Made in America
I was talking to some people from Latvia a couple of days ago. They had a slightly different take on Russia from Barbos’ official line.
“It’s not the people, it’s the corrupt government.”
“It’s not the people, it’s the corrupt government.”
barbos
Contributor
I see not one of you watched the lecture.
Predictable.
Predictable.
barbos
Contributor
Your replies make no sense whatsoever.
barbos
Contributor
Does not matter, he thought about it and you elected him, hence it is thinkable.
laughing dog
Contributor
Expecting people to watch a video that lasts more than a hour is unrealistic in most circumstances.
Blaming “the West” for a complex situation is simplistic analysis. Ignoring the historical context ( which this video appears to do - I did not watch all if it) is poor scholarship and reeks of propaganda.
Finally, the notion that it is anyone’s responsibility but Putin’s for his choice to amass thousands of troops at the border of Ukraine is ludicrous.
Blaming “the West” for a complex situation is simplistic analysis. Ignoring the historical context ( which this video appears to do - I did not watch all if it) is poor scholarship and reeks of propaganda.
Finally, the notion that it is anyone’s responsibility but Putin’s for his choice to amass thousands of troops at the border of Ukraine is ludicrous.
TV and credit cards
Contributor
"Without a nuclear deterrent Ukraine would likely to be subjected to aggression by Russia."
-John Mearsheimer
JM compares Ukraine as a part of NATO to China having a military alliance with Canada and Mexico, owing nothing to the difference between the threat of an authoritarian state who's military acts on the command ofone individual a president for life or military forces who are controlled by an international council.
Do I still need to watch the entire video or will his Wikipedia page do?
-John Mearsheimer
JM compares Ukraine as a part of NATO to China having a military alliance with Canada and Mexico, owing nothing to the difference between the threat of an authoritarian state who's military acts on the command of
Do I still need to watch the entire video or will his Wikipedia page do?
Jarhyn
Wizard
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2010
- Messages
- 15,627
- Gender
- Androgyne; they/them
- Basic Beliefs
- Natural Philosophy, Game Theoretic Ethicist
"I know you are but what am I"
See, I can make childish declarations that are false, too!
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2002
- Messages
- 42,073
- Location
- Frozen in Michigan
- Gender
- Old Fart
- Basic Beliefs
- Don't be a dick.
The three Russia/Ukraine threads have been merged.