How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

Buddy, calm down. So, you see the hypocrisy in calling the Ukranian government Nazis?

No, I don't see it. They do name streets after antisemites and jew murderers.
And yes, Baltic States also have the same fucking problem, all their freedom fighters and heroes are...... antisemites.
And USSR does not have that problem at all, because more than half of all these communists were ..... jews! So no marches to tundra.

So no hypocrisy at all, just your utter ignorance in history.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Buddy, calm down. So, you see the hypocrisy in calling the Ukranian government Nazis?

No, I don't see it. They do name streets after antisemites and jew murderers.
And yes, Baltic States also have the same fucking problem, all their freedom fighters and heroes are...... antisemites.

Gee whiz. This why you consider Ukranians to be Nazis? Very sad.

International media mistakenly spread false news that a Ukrainian street is named after a Nazi

Major international media outlets spread false news about the renaming of a Ukrainian street after a Nazi. On… - Nov. 15, 2019. By Elina Kent

www.kyivpost.com

The street that you are talking about (which was erroneously reported on ABC, but then later retracted) was named after Viktor Pavlenko, not Ivan Pavlenko, who was a Nazi collaborator. Viktor Pavlenko was a Ukrainian military and political leader who was born in 1886. He died in 1932, more than a decade before the photo that Dolinsky shared was taken. Viktor died in the Holodomor, the genocide ordered by Stalin to starve Ukrainians into submission to the Soviets and abandonment of independence and private land ownership. The famine killed at least four million Ukrainians. Russia still refuses to acknowledge the Holodomor as genocide while Ukraine has mounted an international fight for its recognition.

 

[SigmatheZeta]

@barbos I am pretty sure that Sergey Brin's father, Mikhail Brin, has some slight mixed feelings about the treatment of Jews by the USSR.

 

[barbos]

@barbos I am pretty sure that Sergey Brin's father, Mikhail Brin, has some slight mixed feelings about the treatment of Jews by the USSR.

He was treated better than most russians.

 

[barbos]

Buddy, calm down. So, you see the hypocrisy in calling the Ukranian government Nazis?

No, I don't see it. They do name streets after antisemites and jew murderers.
And yes, Baltic States also have the same fucking problem, all their freedom fighters and heroes are...... antisemites.

Gee whiz. This why you consider Ukranians to be Nazis? Very sad.

International media mistakenly spread false news that a Ukrainian street is named after a Nazi

Major international media outlets spread false news about the renaming of a Ukrainian street after a Nazi. On… - Nov. 15, 2019. By Elina Kent

www.kyivpost.com

The street that you are talking about (which was erroneously reported on ABC, but then later retracted) was named after Viktor Pavlenko, not Ivan Pavlenko, who was a Nazi collaborator. Viktor Pavlenko was a Ukrainian military and political leader who was born in 1886. He died in 1932, more than a decade before the photo that Dolinsky shared was taken. Viktor died in the Holodomor, the genocide ordered by Stalin to starve Ukrainians into submission to the Soviets and abandonment of independence and private land ownership. The famine killed at least four million Ukrainians. Russia still refuses to acknowledge the Holodomor as genocide while Ukraine has mounted an international fight for its recognition.

What the fuck are you talking about?
I have never heard about this Pavlenko. I am talking about Stepan Bandera&Co

 

[Elixir]

Buddy, calm down. So, you see the hypocrisy in calling the Ukranian government Nazis?

No, I don't see it. They do name streets after antisemites and jew murderers.
And yes, Baltic States also have the same fucking problem, all their freedom fighters and heroes are...... antisemites.

Gee whiz. This why you consider Ukranians to be Nazis? Very sad.

International media mistakenly spread false news that a Ukrainian street is named after a Nazi

Major international media outlets spread false news about the renaming of a Ukrainian street after a Nazi. On… - Nov. 15, 2019. By Elina Kent

www.kyivpost.com

The street that you are talking about (which was erroneously reported on ABC, but then later retracted) was named after Viktor Pavlenko, not Ivan Pavlenko, who was a Nazi collaborator. Viktor Pavlenko was a Ukrainian military and political leader who was born in 1886. He died in 1932, more than a decade before the photo that Dolinsky shared was taken. Viktor died in the Holodomor, the genocide ordered by Stalin to starve Ukrainians into submission to the Soviets and abandonment of independence and private land ownership. The famine killed at least four million Ukrainians. Russia still refuses to acknowledge the Holodomor as genocide while Ukraine has mounted an international fight for its recognition.

It’s shameful but not surprising that Barbos’ handlers have never told him the truth about that whole thing. They even promote the Pavlenko identity confusion.
But it’s Barbos’ own fault that he continues to think the Pooty regime is troothin’ him.

 

[barbos]

Your fucking ignorance is mind boggling.
All these new Russia-hating NATO members have one thing in common - they hate Soviet Union. USSR did this and that to them,
That means all their heroes were fucking nazis during WW2.
That's it, nothing else you need to know. They try to find someone who was not, but they always fail, they are always end up with jew murderers. Germans were good at it.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Buddy, calm down. So, you see the hypocrisy in calling the Ukranian government Nazis?

No, I don't see it. They do name streets after antisemites and jew murderers.
And yes, Baltic States also have the same fucking problem, all their freedom fighters and heroes are...... antisemites.

Gee whiz. This why you consider Ukranians to be Nazis? Very sad.

International media mistakenly spread false news that a Ukrainian street is named after a Nazi

Major international media outlets spread false news about the renaming of a Ukrainian street after a Nazi. On… - Nov. 15, 2019. By Elina Kent

www.kyivpost.com

The street that you are talking about (which was erroneously reported on ABC, but then later retracted) was named after Viktor Pavlenko, not Ivan Pavlenko, who was a Nazi collaborator. Viktor Pavlenko was a Ukrainian military and political leader who was born in 1886. He died in 1932, more than a decade before the photo that Dolinsky shared was taken. Viktor died in the Holodomor, the genocide ordered by Stalin to starve Ukrainians into submission to the Soviets and abandonment of independence and private land ownership. The famine killed at least four million Ukrainians. Russia still refuses to acknowledge the Holodomor as genocide while Ukraine has mounted an international fight for its recognition.

What the fuck are you talking about?
I have never heard about this Pavlenko. I am talking about Stepan Bandera&Co

Amigo: why are you so harsh on a country that you know so little about? Yes, Bandera was not a good guy. But he is very controversial in Ukraine. One street is named after him. But this street has changed names several times. A minority of Ukrainians supported him. A large majority, including the current government does not.

Stepan Bandera - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Would you consider the US to be Nazis because there is some support and a few streets named after Charles Lindenberg?

If you don't have access to Wiki because of where you are, I'll retract my comments above.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Your fucking ignorance is mind boggling.
All these new Russia-hating NATO members have one thing in common - they hate Soviet Union. USSR did this and that to them,
That means all their heroes were fucking nazis during WW2.
That's it, nothing else you need to know. They try to find someone who was not, but they always fail, they are always end up with jew murderers. Germans were good at it.

Honestly, the west doesn't hate Russia. The west doesn't hate China. Most people in the west just want to get on with life. But the west is very interested in figuring out how to stop expansionist countries into bullying their neighbors and expanding. If Russia and China want to expand their soft power and have an economic zone of influence (which most powerful countries want including the US); then be nice to your neighbors. Find win win opportunities. Fair trade. Form joint alliances that benefit both countries. Be nice. But if you threaten others with military conquest and steal their land, of course you're going to unite your neighbors into hating your country. How could you expect less?

 

[barbos]

Would you consider the US to be Nazis because there is some support and a few streets named after Charles Lindenberg?

You tell me, was Charles Lindenberg implicated in mass murder of jews and poles during WW2?

 

[Elixir]

Russian President Vladimir Putin has sternly warned NATO against deploying its troops and weapons to Ukraine, saying it represents a red line for Russia and would trigger a strong response.

There ya have it. Defending Ukraine against Russian invasion is a "red line" for Pootey.
Seems pretty clear that this is a prelude to the long-anticipated next Russian expansion into Ukraine.

Putin said that NATO's eastward expansion has threatened Russia's core security interests. He expressed concern that NATO could eventually use the Ukrainian territory to deploy missiles capable of reaching Moscow in just five minutes.

... which doesn't bother him when Latvia and Estonia are already that close, and much closer to St Pete.
The idea that Putin's aggression is warranted because he's actually afraid that "The West" is going to missile-bomb Moscow, is analogous to deeming that Rittenhouse punk justified in bringing an AR to a demonstration because he was afraid of Antifa destroying stores in an adjacent State.
Pootey is spoiling for any fight he can win. He can beat up Ukraine, if only he can keep anyone from defending them...

 

[barbos]

Don't want to embarrass your immense military and Russia-studies genius.
But have you looked at the map? did you compare the sizes of the countries you are talking about? Have you checked access to the Black Sea Ukraine has?
Have you familiarized with opinions of NATO eggheads themselves?
Baltic States are nothing but a target practice for a Russian Army, NATO can't defend it and can't use it for an attack, they can only be used for ordinary peace time harassment of Russia. That's not to say it's nothing and that Russia should not work on getting NATO out of Baltic States. For their own good I must say, because Russia would not use NATOless country for target practice if shit hits the fan.

And then there is a matter of principles. NATO was formed as a military/political block against communist Soviet Union. There is no Soviet Union anymore. Soviet Union peacefully left all its WW2 possessions while being promised that NATO will not expand. Then SU peacefully disbanded itself. All of that was not good enough, for you, why? Why are you putting troops on a border? Why NATO was not disbanded or at least reformed with including Russia as part of some kind of new security agreement?

Is it because you think Russia is not small enough for you? Is it because you are waiting for it to decay into smaller parts? So many questions, and no answers.

 

[Elixir]

Don't want to embarrass your immense military and Russia-studies genius.
But have you looked at the map? did you compare the sizes of the countries you are talking about? Have you checked access to the Black Sea Ukraine has?

Y'know... I DID notice that Russia is many times larger than all the rest of them put together...
Are you thinking that missiles are way too big to fit in a tine country like Estonia?

Have you familiarized with opinions of NATO eggheads themselves?

Name a few and I'll let you know.

Baltic States are nothing but a target practice for a Russian Army

How cool for the Russian Army! No wonder they want to reduce Ukraine to the same status.

NATO was formed as a military/political block against communist Soviet Union. There is no Soviet Union anymore?

That is correct... for the moment. But don't despair - Pootey is going to fix it!

Is it because you think Russia is not small enough for you?

No, barbos. IMHO, Russia is exactly the perfect size ... if you take away the parts of Crimea they stole. Even with that, it's not way too big or anything... But it doesn't need to bloat up any more. Write to your representatives and let them know.
Oh, wait... sorry. Nevermind...

 

[barbos]

No, barbos. IMHO, Russia is exactly the perfect size ... if you take away the parts of Crimea they stole

Yes, Ukraine stole Crimea, that's exactly how it happened, literally.
One can argue about Eastern Ukraine of course too, but Crimea was literally stolen, when one well known alcoholic president was not looking.
I am glad we finally agree on something.

 

[barbos]

Name a few and I'll let you know.

All of them?

 

[Elixir]

Ukraine stole Crimea, that's exactly how it happened, literally.

Who told you that? (I bet I can get it in three guesses!)
Crimean Oblast in 1954 was an administrative action of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union, which transferred the government of the Crimean Peninsula from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic to the Ukrainian SSR. When it left, Crimea came with it. No theft involved until Russia went back on the USSR's word.

 

[barbos]

Ukraine stole Crimea, that's exactly how it happened, literally.

Who told you that? (I bet I can get it in three guesses!)
Crimean Oblast in 1954 was an administrative action of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union, which transferred the government of the Crimean Peninsula from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic to the Ukrainian SSR. When it left, Crimea came with it. No theft involved until Russia went back on the USSR's word.

1954 act was not ratified by the parliament, even in soviet dictatorship it had to be ratified. And Sevastopol part of the Crimea stayed in Russia (!!!!!)
And in 1991 Crimea lost autonomous status illegally (no voting which was required). And Sevastopol which was still in Russia literally fell into Ukraine by magic. Nobody knows what happened. It was not part of Ukraine even illegally, it was administrative part of Russian Federation.

You owe me $500 for legal consultation.
Another funny factoid, USSR dissolution was not finished legally because it still required referendum or at least local parliaments voting. It never happened. So strictly legally speaking Soviet Union still exists
Another $500, please.


Now, about Eastern Ukraine. Current Ukrainian regime had one most important promise to their people, It was to get rid of Soviet Legacy, all that communist crap.

Well, guess what? Eastern Ukraine and really half of the Ukraine is ...... Soviet Legacy. So bye bye Eastern Ukraine

Another $500, please.

 

[Elixir]

You owe me $500 for legal consultation.

You owe me $5m for legal malfeasance.
Russia had no legitimate claim to Crimea when they seized it by force.
And they'll have no legitimate claim to Ukraine when they invade it "for defensive purposes" either.

 

[barbos]

You owe me $500 for legal consultation.

You owe me $5m for legal malfeasance.
Russia had no legitimate claim to Crimea when they seized it by force.
And they'll have no legitimate claim to Ukraine when they invade it "for defensive purposes" either.

Well, in that case please load yourself on a boat and go to Europe (GB) and apologize to the Queen.
This one is free.

You do realize that most of the Ukraine was claimed for "defensive" purposes one time or another? Some quite recently.

 

[Elixir]

^
I'm a little disappointed in you barbos.
None of that goes to the points I've made.
Ukraine still does not pose any threat to Russia, and that was never the real reason for Russia's show of aggression.