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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

Wow!
That's just in! State Department says they are not against neutral status of Ukraine!
This is the best news of the last 3 days.
 
Wow!
That's just in! State Department says they are not against neutral status of Ukraine!
This is the best news of the last 3 days.
Ukraine was already and has always been in neutral status with NATO. What a stupid thing to get excited about.

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Wow!
That's just in! State Department says they are not against neutral status of Ukraine!
This is the best news of the last 3 days.
Ukraine was already and has always been in neutral status with NATO. What a stupid thing to get excited about.
No, they were not. They were on different stages of NATO membership and it was written into their Constitution in 2019. They were not even neutral in practice because NATO planes and troops were in Ukraine. On the other hand, neutral status will mean they could play cards with NATO soldiers and that's about it.
And my understanding their current status forbids foreign troops, so NATO troops were violation of their own laws.
 
US absolutely did invade Ukraine.
Do you have any evidence for that? Like photos of US army tanks on Ukraine's land? US warships in Ukraine's harbour? US aeroplanes bombing Ukraine's military sites? Anything at all indicating an invasion by the US?
 
help that the historical figures who fought against the soviets for Ukrainian independence also happened to be nazi collaborators. But that doesn't mean that the hangers on have the power to install the government.
What kind of Jew (he is not technically) would accept support from groops associated with nazi collaborators who were murdering jews?
Well, apparently Zelensky would, and Poroshenko as well.

It does not really matter, facts are facts. They are naming streets after nazis.
Modern Ukraine national identity is based on nazis and hatred of everything Russia.
That's how they decided to build it.
Your beloved Baltic States, essentially the same problem - all national heroes from the 20th centrury - jew killers. There is no way around it. I blame Hitler, but it is what it is.
It's either jew killer or communist, pick your choice.

Jew or not jew was very important for German Nazi, they had strict rules and theory about that. All other nazis were mostly about killing anyone other than them or better had grudge against like communists and since most jews were communists anyway.
I already exposed your bullshit above many posts ago regarding the "Nazi" streets. Your desire for bloodshed is harming your memory. Putin is also claiming that Ukraine has nukes, so he has to protect the world from Ukrainian nukes. There are no lack of insane excuses that imperialists need to expand.
 
Uh oh! This could be the beginning of the end for Putin's war crimes:


China wants Putin to give up his "cold war mentality". Now that so many Russian troops are in Ukraine killing civilians, leaving Russian flanks exposed, would be so ironic if China were to crave some land from Russia! That won't happen. But at least China could try to get Putin to pull back a little.
 
help that the historical figures who fought against the soviets for Ukrainian independence also happened to be nazi collaborators. But that doesn't mean that the hangers on have the power to install the government.
What kind of Jew (he is not technically) would accept support from groops associated with nazi collaborators who were murdering jews?
Well, apparently Zelensky would, and Poroshenko as well.

It does not really matter, facts are facts. They are naming streets after nazis.
Modern Ukraine national identity is based on nazis and hatred of everything Russia.
That's how they decided to build it.
Your beloved Baltic States, essentially the same problem - all national heroes from the 20th centrury - jew killers. There is no way around it. I blame Hitler, but it is what it is.
It's either jew killer or communist, pick your choice.

Jew or not jew was very important for German Nazi, they had strict rules and theory about that. All other nazis were mostly about killing anyone other than them or better had grudge against like communists and since most jews were communists anyway.
I already exposed your bullshit above many posts ago regarding the "Nazi" streets. Your desire for bloodshed is harming your memory. Putin is also claiming that Ukraine has nukes, so he has to protect the world from Ukrainian nukes. There are no lack of insane excuses that imperialists need to expand.
No, you did not. And Putin never claimed Ukraine has nukes.
Next
 
help that the historical figures who fought against the soviets for Ukrainian independence also happened to be nazi collaborators. But that doesn't mean that the hangers on have the power to install the government.
What kind of Jew (he is not technically) would accept support from groops associated with nazi collaborators who were murdering jews?
Well, apparently Zelensky would, and Poroshenko as well.

It does not really matter, facts are facts. They are naming streets after nazis.
Modern Ukraine national identity is based on nazis and hatred of everything Russia.
That's how they decided to build it.
Your beloved Baltic States, essentially the same problem - all national heroes from the 20th centrury - jew killers. There is no way around it. I blame Hitler, but it is what it is.
It's either jew killer or communist, pick your choice.

Jew or not jew was very important for German Nazi, they had strict rules and theory about that. All other nazis were mostly about killing anyone other than them or better had grudge against like communists and since most jews were communists anyway.
I already exposed your bullshit above many posts ago regarding the "Nazi" streets. Your desire for bloodshed is harming your memory. Putin is also claiming that Ukraine has nukes, so he has to protect the world from Ukrainian nukes. There are no lack of insane excuses that imperialists need to expand.
No, you did not. And Putin never claimed Ukraine has nukes.
Next
I'm not going to repeat earlier posts to you. But very interesting that you're not keeping up on the statements made by your messiah:


Please take out your notebook and write down the following that your great leader stated on 2.24.22, quote:

“The entire course of events and analysis of incoming information shows that Russia’s clash with these forces is inevitable. It is only a matter of time: they are getting ready, they are waiting for the right time. Now they also claim to possess nuclear weapons. We will not allow this to be done.”
 
Quite interesting how many Russian athletes are coming out against war:


Then the Polish soccer team is going to boycott playing Russia in the world cup. Hopefully this will spread to the rest of the soccer clubs to boycott Russia.


"I can't imagine playing a match with the Russian National Team in a situation when armed aggression in Ukraine continues," Lewandowski tweeted. "Russian footballers and fans are not responsible for this, but we can't pretend that nothing is happening."
 
Quite interesting how many Russian athletes are coming out against war:


Then the Polish soccer team is going to boycott playing Russia in the world cup. Hopefully this will spread to the rest of the soccer clubs to boycott Russia.


"I can't imagine playing a match with the Russian National Team in a situation when armed aggression in Ukraine continues," Lewandowski tweeted. "Russian footballers and fans are not responsible for this, but we can't pretend that nothing is happening."
IOW "our fake play-wars are only for people who avoid real wars, ok?"

If Russians want fun fake play-wars, they can stop with the shooting wars.
 
Zelensky refused negotiations....
Go figure. He had such remarkable speech asking to sit down and talk and now he refuses.
 
It's been hard to find uplifting news over the past few days. But it has been inspiring to see the Eastern European countries uniting and coming together in compassion against Russian aggression. Shockingly, Serbia announced yesterday that it opposed Putin's invasion. Very interesting story about Romia:


Romania is a NATO country. However, they must be nervous. Russia has invaded them many times in the past. Their cost of living is also going to go way up as they are dependent upon Russian gas. But they are doing what they can to help their neighbors. They've taken in thousands of Ukrainian refugees. The leader of Romania stated "“I am hopeful the West will respond to Russia’s aggression with unity,” said Lăzureanu.

Romania has close ties to it's neighbor to the south, Moldova. This country is not part of NATO and is thus very open to Russian invasion. Romania is taking to Moldova to do a "snap referendum” to unite Moldova and Romania to deter Russia from advancing into the territories.
While President Iohannis did not entertain the idea, he spoke to his Moldovan counterpart Maia Sandu after Russia attacked Ukraine and assured her of support in case of any Russian aggression.

Putin's strategy has always been to divide and then conquer. However, his unhinged actions lately are doing the opposite: they are uniting the world against Russia. People are accepting higher gas prices in order to strive for peace. They don't want war. They care about their neighbors. Sorry Putin...
 
There is a thesis propounded by many that NATO expansion to the east after the collapse of the Soviet Union was a mistake. This thesis was shared by George Kennan, one of the architects of NATO, who said in the late 90s, when the expansion was taking place, that it was a mistake, that NATO was founded purely as a bulwark against Soviet aggression in Western Europe and with the demise of the Soviets, it had lost is reason for existence and certainly had no reason to expand. I have always had some sympathy for this argument.

The Soviet Union ceased to exist, the change in ownership didn't change the basic reason for the existence of NATO. The threat remained.

Well, the basic reason for NATO, as Kennan pointed out, was to be a bulwark against SOVIET expansion into WESTERN Europe. After 1991, the “Soviet” part ceased to exist, and the threat to Western Europe vanished because the Russians evacuated Eastern Europe and its own Warsaw Pact alliance was dissolved.

Moreover, the U.S. promised Gorbachev, when he agreed to quit Eastern Europe, that there would be no NATO expansion eastward. Gorbachev himself recently reiterated this. So the West went back on its word.

Now, as the rest of my post that you quoted pointed out, in retrospect it may be a good thing that NATO expanded eastward. But the future was very much up in the air at the time.

I distinctly recall at the time, during the Clinton administration, discussion along a much more radical line: expanding NATO eastward but only in the context of inviting Russia itself to join NATO, thereby effectively creating a grand alliance without an enemy.

This was predicated on the assumption that Russia would become a “normal” nation along Western lines, but that obviously did not happen. Why not?

It seems to me that one big reason is that the Austrian school economists, the Libertarians, the Ayn Randites and suchlike idiots pushed for, and got, an instant, “shock therapy” transition to capitalism in Russia. This had devastating consequences, with mass unemployment, soaring inflation and other defects of the dog-eat-dog doctrine of economics. Russia went through a decade of penury and it soured tens of millions on the Western economic, social and political model. Then Putin came along in 1999 and in the next decade Russia began to recover, mainly because of the energy sector. Thus millions put their (misplaced) trust in Herr Putin. Even today polls show that about half of Russians long for a return of the cosseting system of shared scarcity that prevailed under the Soviets.

Had Russia transitioned gradually into a quasi-Western system with Russian characteristics, and had it adopted a Scandinavian model of social arrangements (which the U.S. ought to do as well), things might have been very different and Russia might well today be a more or less “normal” country with a decent president and authentic elections — and posing no threats to its neighbors.
 
Zelensky refused negotiations....
Go figure. He had such remarkable speech asking to sit down and talk and now he refuses.

To put this in context, Russian troops are waging war on Kyiv with street skirmishes and currently being repelled but eventually may take the city or assassinate targets such as Zelensky. Within this context, you are declaring it is reasonable for Zelensky to negotiate either putting himself at risk or to compromise on land and people they are trying to defend. Not to mention a declaration of cease-fire to negotiate at this point in time after boundaries have been disrespected would mean Russian troops would continue to move in and fortify Ukraine occupied areas even if they say they wouldn't for purpose of negotiating. You can't really negotiate with someone who has constantly demonstrated untrustworthiness and will use that to further their own ends only.
 
Zelensky refused negotiations....
Go figure. He had such remarkable speech asking to sit down and talk and now he refuses.
Why would any sane person on Earth trust Putin in any negotiation? That's insane. He's probably the least credible person in the world today. If Putin want's people to take him seriously, back down your forces in the least. Stop killing people. Then start to talk.
 
Putin is also claiming that Ukraine has nukes, so he has to protect the world from Ukrainian nukes. There are no lack of insane excuses that imperialists need to expand.
No, you did not. And Putin never claimed Ukraine has nukes.
I'm not going to repeat earlier posts to you. But very interesting that you're not keeping up on the statements made by your messiah:

Your link does not substantiate your assertion about Putin having said Ukraine has nukes. The two quotes it provides fall short of it. They are: "Putin also conveys the message that the Ukrainian leaders, which he calls “Hitler accomplices” have plans to re-take by force Crimea and Donbas, and at some point will use nuclear weapons." and "The entire course of events and analysis of incoming information shows that Russia’s clash with these forces is inevitable. It is only a matter of time: they are getting ready, they are waiting for the right time. Now they also claim to possess nuclear weapons. We will not allow this to be done."

In his 55 minute address Putin makes this explicit:
Ukraine intends to create its own nuclear weapons, and this is not just bragging. Ukraine has the nuclear technologies created back in the Soviet times and delivery vehicles for such weapons, including aircraft, as well as the Soviet-designed Tochka-U precision tactical missiles with a range of over 100 kilometres. But they can do more; it is only a matter of time.
 
Putin is also claiming that Ukraine has nukes, so he has to protect the world from Ukrainian nukes. There are no lack of insane excuses that imperialists need to expand.
No, you did not. And Putin never claimed Ukraine has nukes.
I'm not going to repeat earlier posts to you. But very interesting that you're not keeping up on the statements made by your messiah:

Your link does not substantiate your assertion about Putin having said Ukraine has nukes. The two quotes it provides fall short of it. They are: "Putin also conveys the message that the Ukrainian leaders, which he calls “Hitler accomplices” have plans to re-take by force Crimea and Donbas, and at some point will use nuclear weapons." and "The entire course of events and analysis of incoming information shows that Russia’s clash with these forces is inevitable. It is only a matter of time: they are getting ready, they are waiting for the right time. Now they also claim to possess nuclear weapons. We will not allow this to be done."

In his 55 minute address Putin makes this explicit:
Ukraine intends to create its own nuclear weapons, and this is not just bragging. Ukraine has the nuclear technologies created back in the Soviet times and delivery vehicles for such weapons, including aircraft, as well as the Soviet-designed Tochka-U precision tactical missiles with a range of over 100 kilometres. But they can do more; it is only a matter of time.
Thank you. I will retract my statement that Putin believes that Ukraine has nukes.
 
Zelensky refused negotiations....
Go figure. He had such remarkable speech asking to sit down and talk and now he refuses.
Why would any sane person on Earth trust Putin in any negotiation? That's insane. He's probably the least credible person in the world today. If Putin want's people to take him seriously, back down your forces in the least. Stop killing people. Then start to talk.
He asked and then refused.
 
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