How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Jimmy Higgins]

Russia needs to stop presenting Ukraine with a reality where such persons can usefully self-actualize!

Russia have nothing to do with it. It was Nuland who invited them to the party in 2014.

Russia has everything to do with it. They are the variable on which the calculus "is the presently likely behavior of these people of benefit so as to release them?" turns.

Russia guaranteed the answer to that is "yes": there are plenty of invading Russians for them to murder.

These "military" were sent to prison for crimes they committed in East Ukraine over 8 years period. And they were not military to begin with, not government sanctioned anyway. They were gangs of ordinary criminals turned nazis during and after Nazi Coup. They are a bunch of psychopaths who were fighting rebels. That would have been fine but then they became a nuisance for ukrainians (not intended target) themselves. Nuland created them, not Russia. And now they are being released.

You are aware that no one believes any of this. Not Canada, not Sweden, other than Tucker Carlson no one. The only nations backing Russia are limited to the puppets of Putin.

No one believes what exactly?
Nazi part or release of psychopaths from prisons?

That Russia has any legitimate mandate for their invasion. References to the Nazis is wicked hyperbole trying to provide Russia cover for their actions, when in reality all of Eastern Europe (including Russia) is not a particularly friendly place for the Jewish.

Putin is getting Russians killed in a half-baked attempt to overthrow the Ukrainian leadership. It failed and now Putin is already in talks.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Remember video of Snake Island incident where Ukrainian President claimed all "defenders" died? Apparently 13 died in the attack, the rest 82 surrendered.

Looks like they ALL surrendered and alive (according to ukrainians themselves this time)
President Ze lied to you, CNN.
But great reporting CNN.

I'll admit, that story sounded suspicious, which is why I never cited it. Certainly Ukraine will want to use any and all imagery to help get support against a country that is illegally invading them. Propaganda can fly in both directions.

But the fundamental truth is that Russia invaded Ukraine. No spin there. Russia was trying to make the Zelensky Presidency collapse via fear. Russia has not gone with an all out military campaign, there has been restraint. But that is most likely because Putin can't afford to occupy Ukraine with 1 million soldiers. So he was hoping fear would work (he went with the bare bones Iraq Invasion plan). But it is hard to scare a comedian (they ain't right in the head) and Kyyv's mayor was one of the best people at knocking out tough people in the world.

 

[Elixir]

Ukraine is allied with Nazi Germany now.

Ya sure ya betcha. That’s why the whole world is flying Ukrainian flags and demonstrating in the streets for Ukrainian sovereignty. B’cuz everyone loves Nazi Germany and wants to be a part of it.
‘Cept Russia, that eternal bastion of freedom.

And no, Russia never was allied with Nazis.

You should save the outright falsehoods for the ignorant people whose brains have been softened by Pootey propaganda.

 

[ZiprHead]

Yeah, anti-Semitism and racism in Russia? No way! Be like Canada invading the US because the US plays curling, which must be stamped out.

No, you are not gonna just word-bomb out of it.
Ukraine is not Russia.

Please say that again, slowly.

 

[barbos]

Russia needs to stop presenting Ukraine with a reality where such persons can usefully self-actualize!

Russia have nothing to do with it. It was Nuland who invited them to the party in 2014.

Russia has everything to do with it. They are the variable on which the calculus "is the presently likely behavior of these people of benefit so as to release them?" turns.

Russia guaranteed the answer to that is "yes": there are plenty of invading Russians for them to murder.

These "military" were sent to prison for crimes they committed in East Ukraine over 8 years period. And they were not military to begin with, not government sanctioned anyway. They were gangs of ordinary criminals turned nazis during and after Nazi Coup. They are a bunch of psychopaths who were fighting rebels. That would have been fine but then they became a nuisance for ukrainians (not intended target) themselves. Nuland created them, not Russia. And now they are being released.

You are aware that no one believes any of this. Not Canada, not Sweden, other than Tucker Carlson no one. The only nations backing Russia are limited to the puppets of Putin.

No one believes what exactly?
Nazi part or release of psychopaths from prisons?

That Russia has any legitimate mandate for their invasion. References to the Nazis is wicked hyperbole trying to provide Russia cover for their actions, when in reality all of Eastern Europe (including Russia) is not a particularly friendly place for the Jewish.

Putin is getting Russians killed in a half-baked attempt to overthrow the Ukrainian leadership. It failed and now Putin is already in talks.

Actually I have no doubt that Canada, Sweden, etc are well aware of nazi situation in Ukraine. So it's not a question of "belief" here.
Why do you ask they keep this charade?
Well, multiple reasons, some are idiots really afraid of Putin and/or Russia. Some devoted their whole life to this nonsense and simply can not admit that it was BS and they have books to sell. Number of reasons to keep this charade.
But the main reason I think is not pretty - is that they are dead politically if they admit even for a second that Putin is not that evil man they have been saying all these years. They are dead if they admit it. The sad fact here is that, best exit from this situation is Putin resigning, then these liars can keep their jobs and Russia can get some peace. But he is not going to resign, unfortunately.

 

[barbos]

But the fundamental truth is that Russia invaded Ukraine. No spin there.

I don't disagree. But Russia did not start this war. It was started 8 years ago by Ukraine, against their own (at the time) people, they caused death of 14k people, "civilized" world did absolutely nothing to stop it.
And Russia is going to end this war, and if invasion is the solution so be it.

 

[Elixir]

Ukraine is not Russia.

Saying it slowly isn’t enough. Maybe get that tattooed on the back of your dominant hand.

 

[ZiprHead]

I heard that Putin's demands for the talks today is for Ukraine to demilitarize and denazify,

You first, Pootey.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_National_Unity

 

[Jarhyn]

I heard that Putin's demands for the talks today is for Ukraine to demilitarize and denazify,

You first, Pootey.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_National_Unity

Ouch.. that flag though...

How much money do these fucks get from Russia's ruling oligarchs?

 

[Elixir]

I heard that Putin's demands for the talks today is for Ukraine to demilitarize and denazify,

You first, Pootey.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_National_Unity

Ouch.. that flag though...

How much money do these fucks get from Russia's ruling oligarchs?

SOMEONE has to pay the shills to post propaganda on American discussion boards.


Gotta say, they do it better than C-PAC.
And, I am impressed that Pootey even lets these clowns play in his sandbox.

 

[RVonse]

I'd dare to say "this is different". The EU, China, everyone are acting differently to this invasion. It is as unified as one would expect a multilateral response would be to a substantial natural disaster. That almost never happens. The reaction against Russia is unilateral, swift, and full of condemnation. Because well... it is a completely unjustified military action.

There is no viable excuse for Russia's military movements against Ukraine as a nation. Putin went from incursion of the black from the gray, to flat out 19th century land grab.

We'll see if this can last, but Putin appears to have completely dropped the ball here. I mentioned him playing "good chess" in the to be annexation of more Ukrainian territory, and I think it would have been allowed by enough nations, but with sanctions from others. Instead of playing his usual chess, Putin just lost his mind. I think he was starting to believe he was invincible, like the Neocons in Iraq.

That isn't what I am reading at all. You've been indoctrinated by CNN too long. Maybe it's time to actually read what the Chinese CCP media has to report https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202202/1253364.shtml?id=12

But he also said, "The legitimate security concerns of all countries should be respected. Given NATO's five consecutive rounds of eastward expansion, Russia's legitimate security demands ought to be taken seriously and properly addressed."

China is very neutral right now. They are not on board with anyone but themselves.

Russia's security concerns are understandable. Its security demands are not legitimate in so far as 'legitimate' means 'conforming to the law or to rules'.

Though by no means surprising, China's failure to unambiguously and in no uncertain terms condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine is astonishing. Russia is not conducting a 'forward defence', even though it attempts to portray it as such. It is an act of aggression. Taking a neutral stance in relation to it is not possible.

Yet they are taking a neutral stance and it does not even matter if you think they are right or not. Nor does it even matter if the CCP is right or not.

What matters is that China thinks they are right and they control the world supply lines of industry today. What they think matters and they are NOT allied with the west.

 

[barbos]

I heard that Putin's demands for the talks today is for Ukraine to demilitarize and denazify,

You first, Pootey.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_National_Unity

LOL, the name I have not heard in decades. He is still alive.
But I do remember his name. Not face though. I did not have TV in Russia in the 90s, maybe that's why.
.....
....
Actually, I am starting to remember his face. Damn, he got old.

 

[barbos]

How much money do these fucks get from Russia's ruling oligarchs?

Oligarchs get deposed if they give anyone other than United Russia.

 

[barbos]

At the peak of its popularity in 1999, RNU was estimated to have 100,000 active members all over Russia by state officials. They are now only a shadow of what they once were and have been inactive and somewhat dormant for many years now.[10]

Looks like Putin denazificated Russia by his mere presence as President.
By the way, 1990s was the best time for democracy in Russia, as far as US concerned.
Freedom of the press, crimes, murders, you could do whatever you wanted.
1990s Russia = 1990-2014 Ukraine

Basically Ukraine is stuck in the 1990s

 

[RVonse]

That isn't what I am reading at all. You've been indoctrinated by CNN too long. Maybe it's time to actually read what the Chinese CCP media has to report https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202202/1253364.shtml?id=12

But he also said, "The legitimate security concerns of all countries should be respected. Given NATO's five consecutive rounds of eastward expansion, Russia's legitimate security demands ought to be taken seriously and properly addressed."

China is very neutral right now. They are not on board with anyone but themselves.

I must be indoctrinated. I never thought China was acting solely in its best interests. I thought that's how every fucking country acts not just China.

Thank you RVonse, you and Russel Brand have removed the scales from my eyes.

You are very much indoctrinated just like Higgen's is. It was very convenient how you just managed to leave off what he actually wrote. The core of my response to him :

I'd dare to say "this is different". The EU, China, everyone are acting differently to this invasion.

China is NOT acting any different than one would expect and I said so. So if you have read any actual source (with any validity) that says otherwise please post it and we may all be more informed.

Otherwise, you do noting but bring everyone nearer to the frontiers of ignorance and mass stupidity.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

But the fundamental truth is that Russia invaded Ukraine. No spin there.

I don't disagree. But Russia did not start this war. It was started 8 years ago by Ukraine, against their own (at the time) people, they caused death of 14k people, "civilized" world did absolutely nothing to stop it.
And Russia is going to end this war, and if invasion is the solution so be it.

Yes... and Putin's 8 year pause on acting on the murder of 14k is duly noted.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

How much money do these fucks get from Russia's ruling oligarchs?

Oligarchs gets deposed if they give anyone other than United Russia.

Abramovich appeared to blink, especially after he tried to make it look like he didn't control Chelsea anymore.

 

[pood]

Ukraine is allied with Nazi Germany now.

Ya sure ya betcha. That’s why the whole world is flying Ukrainian flags and demonstrating in the streets for Ukrainian sovereignty. B’cuz everyone loves Nazi Germany and wants to be a part of it.
‘Cept Russia, that eternal bastion of freedom.

And no, Russia never was allied with Nazis.

You should save the outright falsehoods for the ignorant people whose brains have been softened by Pootey propaganda.

What he is contending, of course, is that the German government, because it supports Ukrain, is run by Nazis now. In other words, it’s still Nazi Germany! This is all of a piece with the basic idea that everyone everywhere who opposes Putin is a Nazi. The Germans are Nazis, the Ukrainians are Nazis, the Americans are Nazis, etc. Of course this would mean about 90 percent of the world is Nazi, since I am sure about that percentage, including most Russian and Chinese citizens, oppose Putin’s war crimes.

And this idea is reflected in the laughably named Prvada‘s mouthpiece-for-Putin war coverage. Even before the war started, Pravada stated that ALL Western leaders, even naming them — Biden, Stolz, Johnson, Macron, etc. — should swing from lamp posts!

Technically, the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany did not establish an alliance in 1939. They signed a 10-year nonaggression pact. Had they formed an actual alliance, the Soviets would have been obliged to come to Hitler’s aid when France and Britain declared war on Germany aftrer it invaded Poland.

The nonaggression pact of course was simply a cynical ploy on the part of both Stalin and Hitler. Its real meaning was to divide Poland between the two tyrants while Stalin would have a free hand to invade and occupy the Baltics (successfully) and Finland (unsuccesfully, though he did obtain a little terrritory north of then-Leningrad). It was all about establishing the proverbial “spheres of influence.”

Unfortunately for Stalin, he did not realize that Hitler believed German’s “sphere of influence” extended all the way to Urals. He would soon learn the the error of his ways.

Anyway, on Barbos’s Orwellian world view, Stalin wasn’t invading anyone, he was simply reclaiming territory that was rightfully Russia’s!

 

[barbos]

How much money do these fucks get from Russia's ruling oligarchs?

Oligarchs gets deposed if they give anyone other than United Russia.

Abramovich appeared to blink, especially after he tried to make it look like he didn't control Chelsea anymore.

I said oligarchs are not allowed to fund opposition to Putin.
Smaller businesses can do it though. That's my observation.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That isn't what I am reading at all. You've been indoctrinated by CNN too long. Maybe it's time to actually read what the Chinese CCP media has to report https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202202/1253364.shtml?id=12

But he also said, "The legitimate security concerns of all countries should be respected. Given NATO's five consecutive rounds of eastward expansion, Russia's legitimate security demands ought to be taken seriously and properly addressed."

China is very neutral right now. They are not on board with anyone but themselves.

Russia's security concerns are understandable. Its security demands are not legitimate in so far as 'legitimate' means 'conforming to the law or to rules'.

Though by no means surprising, China's failure to unambiguously and in no uncertain terms condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine is astonishing. Russia is not conducting a 'forward defence', even though it attempts to portray it as such. It is an act of aggression. Taking a neutral stance in relation to it is not possible.

Yet they are taking a neutral stance and it does not even matter if you think they are right or not. Nor does it even matter if the CCP is right or not.

They aren't mobilizing troops or sanctioning Russia, but they are also not getting in the way either. Really, it seems like China is trying to figure out where exactly they want to publicly stand.

Late on Friday in New York, China abstained from voting on a draft U.N. Security Council resolution that would have deplored Moscow's invasion of Ukraine.

The abstention, seen as a win by Western countries, was secured after a two-hour delay for last minute negotiations by the United States and others to secure China's abstention, diplomats said.

My initial statement on China was overly broad and too favorable, however, China is not in Russia's camp either.