How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Jarhyn]

Ukraine is releasing former "military" from prisons.
These are mostly so called national battalion members who even Ukraine had to send to prison for war crimes (rapes, kidnapping murders, using civilians as shields)
25% of these national battalion members were criminals to begin with, but then they were sent in prison for war crimes.

Russia could end this, by not giving Ukraine a dare-i-say consenting (a uniformed military) target for such violence as may happen.

Russia needs to stop presenting Ukraine with a reality where such persons can usefully self-actualize!

 

[barbos]

Russia needs to stop presenting Ukraine with a reality where such persons can usefully self-actualize!

Russia have nothing to do with it. It was Nuland who invited them to the party in 2014.

 

[zorq]

The head of the Russian delegation at a major United Nations climate meeting apologized Sunday for his country’s invasion of Ukraine, telling hundreds of government ministers and scientists that “those who know what is happening fail to find any justification for the attack.”

“Let me present an apology on behalf of all Russians who were not able to prevent this conflict,” Anisimov said.

It's probably paywalled, but it's nice to know that not everyone in Russia is amoral or blinded by tribalism\propaganda.

 

[zorq]

nothing to do with it. It was Nuland who invited them to the party in 2014.

Both nonsensical and deluded. You're not even trying anymore, dude.

 

[marc]

And he died over 60 years ago.

Yep, and now "Jew" President names streets after him.

Care to provide reliable sourses for this odd statement?

I have read that there are some streets in Kyiv and other cities named after Bandera, because he is popular among some right wing politicians. However, I believe that this happened before Zelensky was elected president. Barbos is spreading misinformation to claim that it is Zelensky who named those streets. Calling Zelensky a "Jew" president is offensive. He is a secular president who happens to be Jewish.

Kyiv’s Moskovsky Avenue renamed after Ukrainian nationalist Bandera

Sort of like how there are streets, schools, monuments, etc to confederate heroes in the US.

 

[barbos]

nothing to do with it. It was Nuland who invited them to the party in 2014.

Both nonsensical and deluded. You're not even trying anymore, dude.

Well, that's what happened during EuroMaidan. Do you really think nazi cared for EU membership?

 

[Jarhyn]

Russia needs to stop presenting Ukraine with a reality where such persons can usefully self-actualize!

Russia have nothing to do with it. It was Nuland who invited them to the party in 2014.

Russia has everything to do with it. They are the variable on which the calculus "is the presently likely behavior of these people of benefit so as to release them?" turns.

Russia guaranteed the answer to that is "yes": there are plenty of invading Russians for them to murder.

 

[barbos]

“Let me present an apology on behalf of all Russians who were not able to prevent this conflict,” Anisimov said.

I respect his opinion, he has a right to have it. But I am not sure it's his sincere opinion.

 

[barbos]

Russia needs to stop presenting Ukraine with a reality where such persons can usefully self-actualize!

Russia have nothing to do with it. It was Nuland who invited them to the party in 2014.

Russia has everything to do with it. They are the variable on which the calculus "is the presently likely behavior of these people of benefit so as to release them?" turns.

Russia guaranteed the answer to that is "yes": there are plenty of invading Russians for them to murder.

These "military" were sent to prison for crimes they committed in East Ukraine over 8 years period. And they were not military to begin with, not government sanctioned anyway. They were gangs of ordinary criminals turned nazis during and after Nazi Coup. They are a bunch of psychopaths who were fighting rebels. That would have been fine but then they became a nuisance for ukrainians (not intended target) themselves. Nuland created them, not Russia. And now they are being released.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I've been very pleased to see unity of purpose in all the allied countries towards helping Ukraine. Putin has united the west far more than I thought was possible. And then to see the Ukrainians fight with so much courage. But sadly, I don't see any of this as softening Putin's resolve. The only thing that I see that will pull him back is internal pressure from his country that could come from their crumbling economy. And it's coming. The run on the rubble, sanctions and everything else is destroying the Russian economy:

Russia faces financial meltdown as sanctions slam its economy

Russia was scrambling to prevent financial meltdown Monday as its economy was slammed by a broadside of crushing Western sanctions imposed over the weekend in response to the invasion of Ukraine.

www.cnn.com

Taking the Russian banks off swift was an act of genius. It would be quite ironic if the banks were the ones that hurt Putin and stopped the Russian invasion (said as a former banker!).

 

[steve_bank]

From the BBC news

Apparently Russian solders on the ground were not fully aware they were involved in an invasion. Some thought oit was some kind of training mission.

Putin thought it would be a little harder than Crimea, but essentially a cakewalk. Russian convoys are literally blundering into ambushes and thy are having supply problems including fuel.

It was said in Syria Russia used thermobaric weapons. At that scale a WMD. It creates a vacuum that explodes the lungs. If Putin is politically backed into corner who knows what he will do.

Thermobaric weapon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Someone from Finland said while they have chosen in the past not to join NATO at this point if the Baltics were not in NATO their position would be much more serious. Russia has made the usual dire military consequences threat if Finland goes NATO. They are going to supply weapns.

At the end of WWII Patton allegedly said we should make peace with Germany and together fight the Rusians. Maybe he was right about the long term threat.

 

[zorq]

nothing to do with it. It was Nuland who invited them to the party in 2014.

Both nonsensical and deluded. You're not even trying anymore, dude.

Well, that's what happened during EuroMaidan. Do you really think nazi cared for EU membership?

You think Nuland planned EuroMaidan (she didn't) so that Ukrainian veteran criminals could be released from prison after Russia launches a full on invasion of Ukraine? How many drugs are you on right now?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Russia is cute.

Ahead of the meeting, Ukraine's president said his country wanted an immediate ceasefire and the withdrawal of Russian troops. Meanwhile, Russia says it wants to reach an agreement that benefits both sides.

Benefit both sides? Ukraine, we stop trying to kill you and install a Putin supporting puppet and run a dystopian nation... and you give us eastern Ukraine.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Russia needs to stop presenting Ukraine with a reality where such persons can usefully self-actualize!

Russia have nothing to do with it. It was Nuland who invited them to the party in 2014.

Russia has everything to do with it. They are the variable on which the calculus "is the presently likely behavior of these people of benefit so as to release them?" turns.

Russia guaranteed the answer to that is "yes": there are plenty of invading Russians for them to murder.

These "military" were sent to prison for crimes they committed in East Ukraine over 8 years period. And they were not military to begin with, not government sanctioned anyway. They were gangs of ordinary criminals turned nazis during and after Nazi Coup. They are a bunch of psychopaths who were fighting rebels. That would have been fine but then they became a nuisance for ukrainians (not intended target) themselves. Nuland created them, not Russia. And now they are being released.

You are aware that no one believes any of this. Not Canada, not Sweden, other than Tucker Carlson no one. The only nations backing Russia are limited to the puppets of Putin.

 

[steve_bank]

Now that it has escalated into actual combat, I still think this is not an issue the US should be involved in. No, that doesn't mean I support the either side in this conflict.

You are not paying attention to the last 200 years.

Any form of appeasement lead to oppression. In a sense Putin is a latter day Soviet.

More than ever things re all connect globally. You only have to look at the Russian politcial and finacial influence in Europe derived from supplying energy to Europe. It is a waepon in the hands of a dictator.

Do you really want a world where a Putin has glonal reach? The same applies to China. If left unchallnged China woud exert militrya control over shiping and air roues in the South China Sea. That would have global economic consequences.

The question I alwyas ask is what do you think the stability in your life and your freed ms are based on. Does it just happen?

In the 70s I considered pacifism. I concluded it was a cop out. A pacifist lives when others are willing to protect his or her existence.

From analysis I listened to this morning a direct confrontation would likely lead to nuclear weapons. In the 80s I read a report on NATO vs Warsaw Pact war games and simulations. The conclusion was the use of tactical nukes ending in a strategic exchange. Armageddon.

Direct military actin is out of the question. The MAD principle at work.

 

[steve_bank]

BTW, I think the correct spelling is Pootsky.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Now that it has escalated into actual combat, I still think this is not an issue the US should be involved in. No, that doesn't mean I support the either side in this conflict.

Well, I'm sure that you know that there are no US soldiers in Ukraine (repeating this fact since so many people still believe this). Regardless, do you not think that having most of the world united against this imperialism is a good thing? If the world can come together to be against imperialism, wouldn't that lead to less wars in the future? Are not libertarians against wars?

 

[Elixir]

Hoo boy.
Anyone ever see a little toddler with fingers literally in their ears, screaming their fury at the top of their lungs, and
“LALALALA I Can’t hear you!!”

Well, now you have.

 

[barbos]

Russia needs to stop presenting Ukraine with a reality where such persons can usefully self-actualize!

Russia have nothing to do with it. It was Nuland who invited them to the party in 2014.

Russia has everything to do with it. They are the variable on which the calculus "is the presently likely behavior of these people of benefit so as to release them?" turns.

Russia guaranteed the answer to that is "yes": there are plenty of invading Russians for them to murder.

These "military" were sent to prison for crimes they committed in East Ukraine over 8 years period. And they were not military to begin with, not government sanctioned anyway. They were gangs of ordinary criminals turned nazis during and after Nazi Coup. They are a bunch of psychopaths who were fighting rebels. That would have been fine but then they became a nuisance for ukrainians (not intended target) themselves. Nuland created them, not Russia. And now they are being released.

You are aware that no one believes any of this. Not Canada, not Sweden, other than Tucker Carlson no one. The only nations backing Russia are limited to the puppets of Putin.

No one believes what exactly?
Nazi part or release of psychopaths from prisons?

 

[barbos]

Remember video of Snake Island incident where Ukrainian President claimed all "defenders" died? Apparently 13 died in the attack, the rest 82 surrendered.

Looks like they ALL surrendered and alive (according to ukrainians themselves this time)
President Ze lied to you, CNN.
But great reporting CNN.