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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

barbos

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So in conclusion, response should be public warning to .... Ukraine not do anything stupid and that Nord Stream 2 is a reality. I say "public" because it's quite obvious that they were warned privately by germans and most likely by other sane members of EU.

I don't know what crazies from State Department are telling their ukrainian puppets - probably "Do it!"
 

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I am well educated about Russia's Soviet history and current ambitions to re-constitute the Soviet Union.
You echo Putin's whining about how "tiresome" it is to hear about his nature, denying his history and his ambitions.
Exactly what is expected from a propagandist shill.
Maybe you can get a raise, but you can't get credibility by crowing about "undeniable facts" you are fed (or make up), while denying what is obvious to anyone paying attention.
We shall see if Putin actually move on/invades Ukraine, and if he does, which excuse he puts forward for his aggression.
I can guarantee you that neither Ukraine nor any other "US proxy" is going to invade Russia from the Ukranian border, and the 90,000 Russian troops now camped on that border will have nothing to do until they are ordered to attack. If Putin is determined to launch such an attack, it will most likely be rationalized as a "response" to some imagined-but-non-existent threat. If it's not that, it may be a re-play of the Crimean land-grab. Declaring "it was always ours" worked there, so it might work again in Ukraine.
 

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Saber rattling is the resort of desperate leaders whose public popularity is plummeting.

The notion that the Ukraine is run by nazis but Russia is not is delusional.

I think if Putin actually invades the Ukraine, I would be in favor of a quick and devastating destruction of the invading force by the US and its allies. I doubt that would happen.
 

Elixir

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Saber rattling is the resort of desperate leaders whose public popularity is plummeting.

The notion that the Ukraine is run by nazis but Russia is not is delusional.

I think if Putin actually invades the Ukraine, I would be in favor of a quick and devastating destruction of the invading force by the US and its allies. I doubt that would happen.
Oh, it won't happen unless it happens before EU and the US can get their co-ordinated response together. The last thing Pootey wants is to lose militarily. My assessment is that this is a little experiment to see how allied the opposition to his expansionism really is. The actual invasion will probably not be prefaced by an overt show of force.
 

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CNN links? :)
Sorry, don't have ones. It's common knowledge and accepted truth in Russia/Ukraine which is avoided by western media. No one denies it, it's just avoided.
Ukraine is an original Trumpistan.


And why are you so surprised? US supported terrorists in Afganistan and Syria, why is it so surprising that they would support nazies?
We have this problem too, now.

Ukraine is not going to get EU membership unless it can sort its own house out with regards to corruption and complying with EU regulations in their energy sector. There needs to be the political will to do so. In the meantime, Ukraine can functionally ally it’s energy sector with the the EU. It can reverse flow nat gas from Poland, Hungary, and Slovakia.
Dude, you need to educate yourself more. Poland, Hungary, and Slovakia do not produce gas. What Ukraine is currently doing is called virtual reverse. These assholes built a short pipeline which goes around metering equipment at the border with EU.
All that thing does is makes gas flow through the counter higher than it really is.
That allows them to use russian gas from the pipe along its way in the Ukraine. And these assholes claim that they don't use russian gas. Even though they are using it and paying for it significantly more. Everybody in Ukraine knows that. But they keep pretending that they are buying gas from EU.
Problem with this arrangement (besides paying more) is that once Nord Stream 2 is operational, Russia can eventually stop transit through Ukraine because it is more expensive and less politically reliable. If that happens Ukraine would lose transit money and would have to start paying for real transit (of the same russian gas) from EU. Of course they could buy directly from Russia and do it cheaply. But proud nazies can't do that.



It can better ally itself with Turkey and avail itself of the oil and nat gas supplies of the Caucuses and Central Asia. It can tie it’s electrical grid in with it’s EU neighbors. It can purchase LNG through ports in Poland, Turkey, Greece, and Croatia.
The EU and US can support Ukraine in these efforts to diversify its energy sector.

Would Russia have a problem with this?
No, of course Russia would have no problem with that. They can do it tomorrow.
They can shoot themselves in the other foot or jump from the high rise building too. Russia has no problem with that.


Now, everybody (Russians, Ukrainians, Europeans, even pentagon critters and your government) except you knows that.
You don't know that because your shit media is misinforming you.

What else you don't know?
Oh the fact that Russia has paid $250bil to Ukraine over the years.
Don't you think this entitle Russia for something? You have few CIA fuckers with what? $20mil? coming to Ukraine, organizing a coup, get bunch of idiots killed. And wow! Ukraine is a USA ally now! Wow! NATO! Wow!

If you could just provide some reference, anything that would lend a modicum of credibility to what you claim, I’d love to read it.

Here’s my shit, lying-ass MSM reference I drew my info from:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/11/17/ukraine-energy-diversification-russia-gazprom/
That just proves that you are not even trying to get second opinion.
Try at least reading European news, german for example.
Seriosuly, how dumb you have to be to believe that Ukraine is using European gas?
I don't believe that. I did not say they did. This is why I posted the link to the article for you. To clarify. Evidently you did not read it.
But I will look for something that supports your assertions. If I find anything, I'll post it up. Then you can rely on my citations rather than your emotions to support your position.
diversification my ass.

Go to the fucking google maps and find that pipeline from EU to the Ukraine they get their gas from!
This is nothing but a last ditch effort to stop Nord Stream 2.
These fucking nazis know that the days of Russia paying for transit are about to end.

Same story with fucking coal. They claim they don't buy coal from Easten Ukraine...... except that they are (actually were) buying coal from Russia which come around from..... Eastern Ukraine. Why you ask? I am glad you asked.....Ukrainian power stations don't really work well with crap they got from US and South Africa. So they buy Eastern Ukrainian coal through Russia and lie that they are not using separatist's coal. This is what your MSM would never tell you.
 

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Generally, I am rooted in both ancient Epicurean and ancient Pyrrhonist sentiments, although I am somewhat sympathetic toward the intentions behind ancient Cynicism.
If Russia fears Nato so much, why constantly bully Ukraine? It's Russia that is pushing Ukraine towards the west. Why do bullies always feel that they are the victim?
NATO!=West. Russia was not happy about Ukraine trying to get to EU, mainly because it would cost Russia money. But Russia did nothing to stop it. It's NATO.
Bully here is US. You are bullying everybody including Ukraine.
If the US were really interested in Russia's land, then we could probably take down their entire government within a week, to be honest.

*wing-shrugs* It's just not our place to defend Europe's borders. They are our allies, and we would respectfully send them aid if they needed aid, just as they would do for us.

We have the single most overbuilt military in the world, though. If we really wanted Russia, we would already have it.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Back? Someone took it from them?
Well, according to current Ukrainian government Russia took it from them.
In reality, people there simply revolted against trumpers US installed in Kiev.

That deception fell apart long ago. Russian troops have been identified fighting in Ukraine and then fighting for Russia elsewhere.
 

Loren Pechtel

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The problem here is that it seems like Russia wants a war with Ukraine, for the express purposes of annexation of territory.
That's what MSM says, they are lying. Eastern Ukraine in particular is very unattractive piece of territory. There is only one reason for invading Ukraine - NATO expansion.
Putin informed NATO about that reason in 2008. You should know that by now.

Two reasons:

1) They consider it theirs and won't accept it's loss. The same thing that drives a lot of Islamist war.

2) It's a land connection to their port on the Black Sea.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Bullcrap. Russian position is clear. There will be no Ukraine if NATO decides to take them. And the fact that you don't know that is MSM's fault. They are filthy liars.

In other words, Russia will destroy Ukraine if Ukraine tries to avoid being taken.

I presume that when you don't simply hand over your lunch money that it's your fault the bully beat you up and took it.
 

Loren Pechtel

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We have the single most overbuilt military in the world, though. If we really wanted Russia, we would already have it.

This doesn't pass the laugh test.

Does the term "ICBM" mean anything to you? How about "SLBM"?
 

SigmatheZeta

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We have the single most overbuilt military in the world, though. If we really wanted Russia, we would already have it.

This doesn't pass the laugh test.

Does the term "ICBM" mean anything to you? How about "SLBM"?
I am not impressed. If we really wanted their dumb country, they literally would not last a week.
 

Jarhyn

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The problem here is that it seems like Russia wants a war with Ukraine, for the express purposes of annexation of territory.
That's what MSM says, they are lying. Eastern Ukraine in particular is very unattractive piece of territory. There is only one reason for invading Ukraine - NATO expansion.
Putin informed NATO about that reason in 2008. You should know that by now.
No, this is what the residents of the country who you declare of wanting a war says, and I am most certainly NOT lying.

I do not want a war with Russia over Ukraine. Ask any individual here whether they want that. I'm not speaking from MSM. I don't consume the media the way you appear to.

What I want is Russia to stop making overtures of war towards Ukraine.

Quit trying to gaslight me. Russia is gearing up to attack Ukraine. The first shots will be fired into Ukraine. All boots on the ground will be touching the ground on the Ukrainian side of the border. If bombs are dropped on Russian forces, they will be on Russian forces after those forces have started crossing a border. The only exception to this is the possibility of a stray shot coming from Ukraine being used as an excuse and fig leaf to do all of the above.

Putin can suck the place on the bus seat I plan on farting into repeatedly this morning for all I care, as to his desire that Ukraine have no involvement with NATO. As can you.

That's not up to you, or him. NATO is essentially there to keep Russia from doing this garbage.
Bullcrap. Russian position is clear. There will be no Ukraine if NATO decides to take them. And the fact that you don't know that is MSM's fault. They are filthy liars.
So the Russian position is clear: Russia is going to unilaterally start a war.

There is no excuse.
 

barbos

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I don't believe that. I did not say they did. This is why I posted the link to the article for you. To clarify. Evidently you did not read it.
But I will look for something that supports your assertions. If I find anything, I'll post it up. Then you can rely on my citations rather than your emotions to support your position.
Of course I did not read it. Why would I read same old shit you post?
I know the facts. All your media are lying about Russia/Ukraine, all of them.
 

barbos

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Bullcrap. Russian position is clear. There will be no Ukraine if NATO decides to take them. And the fact that you don't know that is MSM's fault. They are filthy liars.

In other words, Russia will destroy Ukraine if Ukraine tries to avoid being taken.

I presume that when you don't simply hand over your lunch money that it's your fault the bully beat you up and took it.
Not destroy, will be forced to occupy it. Maybe just the parts with predominantly russian population, or all except Western Ukraine (former Poland).
The point is, the red line was drawn long time ago.
 

Jarhyn

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So the Russian position is clear: Russia is going to unilaterally start a war.
If it becomes clear that NATO is taking over Ukraine then yes. That's what Putin implied in 2008.
"Taking over" is not the correct words for this, and I do not believe for a moment you have confused "taking over" with "freely deciding to join".

I repeat, cut the gaslighting bullshit. We see you.

Russia is threatening to attack another country unilaterally for NONE OF THEIR FUCKING BUSINESS.
 

barbos

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So the Russian position is clear: Russia is going to unilaterally start a war.
If it becomes clear that NATO is taking over Ukraine then yes. That's what Putin implied in 2008.
"Taking over" is not the correct words for this, and I do not believe for a moment you have confused "taking over" with "freely deciding to join".

I repeat, cut the gaslighting bullshit. We see you.
I am not following you here. Take over, occupy, invade&occupy. What's the difference?

Russia is threatening to attack another country unilaterally for NONE OF THEIR FUCKING BUSINESS.
What was your business for attacking Yugoslavia? Iraq Syria? going further - Vietnam, Cuba? Cuba by the way is still under attack.
 

Jarhyn

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So the Russian position is clear: Russia is going to unilaterally start a war.
If it becomes clear that NATO is taking over Ukraine then yes. That's what Putin implied in 2008.
"Taking over" is not the correct words for this, and I do not believe for a moment you have confused "taking over" with "freely deciding to join".

I repeat, cut the gaslighting bullshit. We see you.
I am not following you here. Take over, occupy, invade&occupy. What's the difference?

Russia is threatening to attack another country unilaterally for NONE OF THEIR FUCKING BUSINESS.
What was your business for attacking Yugoslavia? Iraq Syria? going further - Vietnam, Cuba? Cuba by the way is still under attack.
The difference is the invitation.

It's the same as the difference between sex and rape.

I criticize my country for Vietnam.

As to what it means to be "attacked", though, that's apparently "anything that involves not deciding to give you what you want", to you.

As I said. Cut the gaslighting. We see you.
 

laughing dog

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I don't believe that. I did not say they did. This is why I posted the link to the article for you. To clarify. Evidently you did not read it.
But I will look for something that supports your assertions. If I find anything, I'll post it up. Then you can rely on my citations rather than your emotions to support your position.
Of course I did not read it. Why would I read same old shit you post?
I know the facts. All your media are lying about Russia/Ukraine, all of them.
You expect people to read the same old shite you post.

You are trotting out the typical Russian paranoia and outright lies. Why should anyone take your position seriously?
 

laughing dog

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So the Russian position is clear: Russia is going to unilaterally start a war.
If it becomes clear that NATO is taking over Ukraine then yes. That's what Putin implied in 2008.
NATO does not take over anything. A country asks to join NATO.

You literally have no clue what you are posting about.
 

barbos

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So the Russian position is clear: Russia is going to unilaterally start a war.
If it becomes clear that NATO is taking over Ukraine then yes. That's what Putin implied in 2008.
"Taking over" is not the correct words for this, and I do not believe for a moment you have confused "taking over" with "freely deciding to join".

I repeat, cut the gaslighting bullshit. We see you.
I am not following you here. Take over, occupy, invade&occupy. What's the difference?

Russia is threatening to attack another country unilaterally for NONE OF THEIR FUCKING BUSINESS.
What was your business for attacking Yugoslavia? Iraq Syria? going further - Vietnam, Cuba? Cuba by the way is still under attack.
The difference is the invitation.

It's the same as the difference between sex and rape.

I criticize my country for Vietnam.

As to what it means to be "attacked", though, that's apparently "anything that involves not deciding to give you what you want", to you.

As I said. Cut the gaslighting. We see you.
Invitation after a coup, OK.
Did Yougoslavia invite NATO?
And Cuba?
Syria?
list is pretty long.
 

Jarhyn

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So the Russian position is clear: Russia is going to unilaterally start a war.
If it becomes clear that NATO is taking over Ukraine then yes. That's what Putin implied in 2008.
"Taking over" is not the correct words for this, and I do not believe for a moment you have confused "taking over" with "freely deciding to join".

I repeat, cut the gaslighting bullshit. We see you.
I am not following you here. Take over, occupy, invade&occupy. What's the difference?

Russia is threatening to attack another country unilaterally for NONE OF THEIR FUCKING BUSINESS.
What was your business for attacking Yugoslavia? Iraq Syria? going further - Vietnam, Cuba? Cuba by the way is still under attack.
The difference is the invitation.

It's the same as the difference between sex and rape.

I criticize my country for Vietnam.

As to what it means to be "attacked", though, that's apparently "anything that involves not deciding to give you what you want", to you.

As I said. Cut the gaslighting. We see you.
Invitation after a coup, OK.
Did Yougoslavia invite NATO?
And Cuba?
Syria?
list is pretty long.
We aren't talking about any of those places and they happened in the past, and not to Russia, granted sanctions isn't an "attack".

Suck the teat of Russian propaganda all you want but nothing is going to change the fact that here, now, today, Russia is threatening war unilaterally because they do not like their neighbor's friends.

Nothing excuses that. NOTHING.
 

barbos

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So the Russian position is clear: Russia is going to unilaterally start a war.
If it becomes clear that NATO is taking over Ukraine then yes. That's what Putin implied in 2008.
"Taking over" is not the correct words for this, and I do not believe for a moment you have confused "taking over" with "freely deciding to join".

I repeat, cut the gaslighting bullshit. We see you.
I am not following you here. Take over, occupy, invade&occupy. What's the difference?

Russia is threatening to attack another country unilaterally for NONE OF THEIR FUCKING BUSINESS.
What was your business for attacking Yugoslavia? Iraq Syria? going further - Vietnam, Cuba? Cuba by the way is still under attack.
The difference is the invitation.

It's the same as the difference between sex and rape.

I criticize my country for Vietnam.

As to what it means to be "attacked", though, that's apparently "anything that involves not deciding to give you what you want", to you.

As I said. Cut the gaslighting. We see you.
Invitation after a coup, OK.
Did Yougoslavia invite NATO?
And Cuba?
Syria?
list is pretty long.
We aren't talking about any of those places and they happened in the past, and not to Russia, granted sanctions isn't an "attack".

Suck the teat of Russian propaganda all you want but nothing is going to change the fact that here, now, today, Russia is threatening war unilaterally because they do not like their neighbor's friends.

Nothing excuses that. NOTHING.
We ARE talking about those places.
US set the precedents. You attacked Cuba when they invited Soviet Union.
You attacked Yugoslavia, Syria and Iraq over false pretenses.
NATO in Ukraine is as unacceptable as nukes on Cuba, you were told that 14 years ago. You choose to ignore and push anyway, conducting a coup in Ukraine and installing illegal puppet regime.
 

Jarhyn

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So the Russian position is clear: Russia is going to unilaterally start a war.
If it becomes clear that NATO is taking over Ukraine then yes. That's what Putin implied in 2008.
"Taking over" is not the correct words for this, and I do not believe for a moment you have confused "taking over" with "freely deciding to join".

I repeat, cut the gaslighting bullshit. We see you.
I am not following you here. Take over, occupy, invade&occupy. What's the difference?

Russia is threatening to attack another country unilaterally for NONE OF THEIR FUCKING BUSINESS.
What was your business for attacking Yugoslavia? Iraq Syria? going further - Vietnam, Cuba? Cuba by the way is still under attack.
The difference is the invitation.

It's the same as the difference between sex and rape.

I criticize my country for Vietnam.

As to what it means to be "attacked", though, that's apparently "anything that involves not deciding to give you what you want", to you.

As I said. Cut the gaslighting. We see you.
Invitation after a coup, OK.
Did Yougoslavia invite NATO?
And Cuba?
Syria?
list is pretty long.
We aren't talking about any of those places and they happened in the past, and not to Russia, granted sanctions isn't an "attack".

Suck the teat of Russian propaganda all you want but nothing is going to change the fact that here, now, today, Russia is threatening war unilaterally because they do not like their neighbor's friends.

Nothing excuses that. NOTHING.
We ARE talking about those places.
US set the precedents. You attacked Cuba when they invited Soviet Union.
You attacked Yugoslavia, Syria and Iraq over false pretenses.
NATO in Ukraine is as unacceptable as nukes on Cuba, you were told that 14 years ago. You choose to ignore and push anyway, conducting a coup in Ukraine and installing illegal puppet regime.
No, you are talking about them. I am taking about Ukraine, which is peacefully and consensually interested in joining NATO.

If Russia finds this so unacceptable that their neighbors would be difficult to attack, that they attack their neighbors (lol, the circularity there), then they will have unilaterally attacked their neighbors.

You have made accusations of installing an "illegal puppet regime". You know, downtown Minneapolis there is a lady... she claims to be a Russian princess and she spouts nonsense like you do, too. Maybe she really is Russian... She talks a lot about Cuba too. And North Korea. And how all the snipers want to take her out.

Honestly I wouldn't blame them if they did, she's annoying as fuck. My point is, your statements and hers have a similar level of credulity to them.

Now, I can imagine that putting nukes next to someone's country in the middle of a cold war was a bit of an issue. But this is a country asking for troop support after another country annexed a part of their land.

This is the reality here: Russia being a shitty fucking neighbor. Don't like it? Well you're Russian so I guess your only option is to shut up or double down because if you complain too loud your shitty fucking leadership will disappear you in the night and because you are a national, it won't even make headlines.
 

barbos

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No, you are talking about them. I am taking about Ukraine, which is peacefully and consensually interested in joining NATO.
That's a lie. US conducted a violent coup, installed a puppet regime and then these puppets expressed their desire to join NATO. In polls before violent coup NATO were not even close to to have support in Ukraine. And even now, it's not that popular, probably less than 50%
And it's not even relevant. What Ukraine thinks is IRRELEVANT. What Russia (permanent member of security council ) thinks IS.
 

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No, you are talking about them. I am taking about Ukraine, which is peacefully and consensually interested in joining NATO.
That's a lie. US conducted a violent coup, installed a puppet regime and then these puppets expressed their desire to join NATO. In polls before violent coup NATO were not even close to to have support in Ukraine. And even now, it's not that popular, probably less than 50%
And it's not even relevant. What Ukraine thinks is IRRELEVANT. What Russia (permanent member of security council ) thinks IS.
In the polls decried by international watchdogs as a sham? Well, I guess if you fear your government enough you learn to just quietly ignore that...

And now you are saying might makes right...

More unilateral imposition!

And you wonder why Ukraine thinks they need some international cooperation to keep invasions out.

"What she thinks is irrelevant, he's the one with the knife and the car keys."

We see you.
 

barbos

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Now, I can imagine that putting nukes next to someone's country in the middle of a cold war was a bit of an issue. But this is a country asking for troop support after another country annexed a part of their land.
Cold over have never been over. Only total destruction of current Russia will end Cold War.


Nobody annexed part of their territory. They left when their own government cut water and promised to hang them. Their choice was obvious.
 
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barbos

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In the polls decried by international watchdogs as a sham?
Are you fucking insane?
Are you saying that ukrainians wanted to join NATO before 2014?
decried by international watchdogs? Who would even do that?
what watchdogs?
You are fucking insane. Stop inventing shit.
NATO joining is not that popular even NOW, with your puppet regime in place.
You have a bunch nazi-trumpers in power in Ukraine who are on payroll in State Department. Ordinary folk don't want that shit, they are surviving.
 
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barbos

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48% support joining NATO (54% for EU which is remarkably low). This is after you exclude Eastern Ukraine and Crimea.
Before 2014 support was clearly less than even that.
And support is wildly fluctuating. It peaks during shit and drops when shit calms down.
NATO is not wildly popular in even present Ukraine.
And don't forget that a lot of this "support" is actually support for EU. They think that joining NATO would help them to join EU, they could care less about mythical threat of Russia, all they want is free access to EU to get the hell out of Ukraine and their corrupt and retarded government. Hell, you can poll in Russia and will get decent support for NATO and especially EU for the same reason. It does not mean shit.
Fucking Putin himself suggested joining NATO for Russia in 2000s.

But who cares about what people think? NATO certainly does not, they occupied Montenegro over objections their people, when they installed friendly regime over there. And keep in mind that Montenegro is useless for NATO. It has zero strategic importance, it was done purely for political reasons to show that everyone wants to NATO. Not everyone!
 
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barbos

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Just listened to Fareed Zakaria on CNN. He essentially repeated word for word what I am saying.
So you people have no excuse for horse shit you are spewing here.
 

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In the polls decried by international watchdogs as a sham?
Are you fucking insane?
Are you saying that ukrainians wanted to join NATO before 2014?
decried by international watchdogs? Who would even do that?
what watchdogs?
You are fucking insane. Stop inventing shit.
NATO joining is not that popular even NOW, with your puppet regime in place.
You have a bunch nazi-trumpers in power in Ukraine who are on payroll in State Department. Ordinary folk don't want that shit, they are surviving.
Ah, so first Ukraine was corrupt for Biden and then all of a sudden it's full of trumpanzees?

You sound like the Chinese people my Chinese CEO WON'T hire who don't understand that Taiwan is an independent country.

I realized early on that tuning in to a spun propaganda faucet was probably a bad idea.

I'm guessing support for a unilateral invasion of Ukraine by Russian forces in reality is probably pretty low, unless perhaps you are a Russian oligarch who wants open access to a port without having to be diplomatic or conciliatory.

Oh, and I guess to distract from all the other bullshit Russia is up to.

Now if you're done with your Russian Princess impersonation routine...

The difference is, I see my country start wars for bullshit reasons and I say NO. You see your country starting wars for bullshit reasons and you say "your country did it do it's ok here". It's not ok when we did it and it's not OK when your country is doing it, and neither country should actually start shit or leverage might in the first place this way.

It's just bad faith you-too bullshit.

We see you.
 

Harry Bosch

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In the polls decried by international watchdogs as a sham?
Are you fucking insane?
Are you saying that ukrainians wanted to join NATO before 2014?
decried by international watchdogs? Who would even do that?
what watchdogs?
You are fucking insane. Stop inventing shit.
NATO joining is not that popular even NOW, with your puppet regime in place.
You have a bunch nazi-trumpers in power in Ukraine who are on payroll in State Department. Ordinary folk don't want that shit, they are surviving.
Ah, so first Ukraine was corrupt for Biden and then all of a sudden it's full of trumpanzees?

You sound like the Chinese people my Chinese CEO WON'T hire who don't understand that Taiwan is an independent country.

I realized early on that tuning in to a spun propaganda faucet was probably a bad idea.

I'm guessing support for a unilateral invasion of Ukraine by Russian forces in reality is probably pretty low, unless perhaps you are a Russian oligarch who wants open access to a port without having to be diplomatic or conciliatory.

Oh, and I guess to distract from all the other bullshit Russia is up to.

Now if you're done with your Russian Princess impersonation routine...

The difference is, I see my country start wars for bullshit reasons and I say NO. You see your country starting wars for bullshit reasons and you say "your country did it do it's ok here". It's not ok when we did it and it's not OK when your country is doing it, and neither country should actually start shit or leverage might in the first place this way.

It's just bad faith you-too bullshit.

We see you.
The scary thing about is that it's my understand that Barbos lives in America and has access to information. Think of all the Russians living in Russia who have no source of info that isn't directed by Putin. These people are understandably angry, bitter, and looking for scapegoats. China is the same. Sadly, I don't see how the world can really contain a bitter Russia and China from expanding considerably and causing wars.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Bullcrap. Russian position is clear. There will be no Ukraine if NATO decides to take them. And the fact that you don't know that is MSM's fault. They are filthy liars.

In other words, Russia will destroy Ukraine if Ukraine tries to avoid being taken.

I presume that when you don't simply hand over your lunch money that it's your fault the bully beat you up and took it.
Not destroy, will be forced to occupy it.
Forced. Like the US was forced to invade Iraq to protect itself from WMDs?
Maybe just the parts with predominantly russian population, or all except Western Ukraine (former Poland).
The point is, the red line was drawn long time ago.
I have no idea what goes on in Putin's head. I don't even know if he is in charge and there is a Politburo running things instead. I do think there is usually a long term plan, so the lines were drawn a while ago, but that doesn't justify the lines existence.

I also know that Ukraine is smaller than it was a number of years ago. And now there are talks of "occupying" portions of what is left. Taking those two small points in a vacuum, it looks like an expansion of power by someone that isn't Ukraine. Nation's seeking to become an empire rarely contract in size.
 

barbos

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In the polls decried by international watchdogs as a sham?
Are you fucking insane?
Are you saying that ukrainians wanted to join NATO before 2014?
decried by international watchdogs? Who would even do that?
what watchdogs?
You are fucking insane. Stop inventing shit.
NATO joining is not that popular even NOW, with your puppet regime in place.
You have a bunch nazi-trumpers in power in Ukraine who are on payroll in State Department. Ordinary folk don't want that shit, they are surviving.
Ah, so first Ukraine was corrupt for Biden and then all of a sudden it's full of trumpanzees?
What are talking about? There are obvious similarities between 2014 coup and Jan 6.

You sound like the Chinese people my Chinese CEO WON'T hire who don't understand that Taiwan is an independent country.

I realized early on that tuning in to a spun propaganda faucet was probably a bad idea.

I'm guessing support for a unilateral invasion of Ukraine by Russian forces in reality is probably pretty low, unless perhaps you are a Russian oligarch who wants open access to a port without having to be diplomatic or conciliatory.

Oh, and I guess to distract from all the other bullshit Russia is up to.

Now if you're done with your Russian Princess impersonation routine...

The difference is, I see my country start wars for bullshit reasons and I say NO. You see your country starting wars for bullshit reasons and you say "your country did it do it's ok here". It's not ok when we did it and it's not OK when your country is doing it, and neither country should actually start shit or leverage might in the first place this way.

It's just bad faith you-too bullshit.

We see you.
Fareed Zacaria agrees with me.
 

barbos

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Fareed Zacaria agrees with me.

Here is the clip Barbos say FZ agrees with him on. It's about six minutes long. Can we say Barbos is stretching the truth again?

Not this clip, I watched him on Anderson Cooper. Where he explains Russian position on NATO expansion rather well, and does not mention recreating Soviet Empire at all.
By the way I vaguelly rememeber this Stavridis character from his time in Europe.
He is a lying piece of shit.
 

Elixir

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The difference between NATO expansion and Russian expansion is night and day.
Ukraine is a fine example. If it joins NATO it will be because it’s elected representatives decided to join NATO. If it joins the new USSR it will be at the point of a gun, after much blood is spilled.

ETA. 48% is a huge plurality in a country that has been subjected to Russian threats, and their intentionally sowing division, disinformation, and discontent for decades. Pootey’s boy Trump won the US Presidency with 49% and called it a landslide.
 

Jarhyn

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Fareed Zacaria agrees with me.

Here is the clip Barbos say FZ agrees with him on. It's about six minutes long. Can we say Barbos is stretching the truth again?

Not this clip, I watched him on Anderson Cooper. Where he explains Russian position on NATO expansion rather well, and does not mention recreating Soviet Empire at all.

The Russian position on NATO is that they don't want it to exist and will unilaterally attack people for participating in it.

Russia needs to cool their tits and back the fuck off of Ukraine. They also need to quit with bad-faith troll farm attacks, and quit whipping up anti-vaxx. I feel really sorry for all the russians, however few of them there may be, who have to live under so much bad faith.

Edit: and for all the rest of everyone who has too much bad faith to be able to prevent it from causing damage to literally everyone.
 

barbos

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The difference between NATO expansion and Russian expansion is night and day.
Ukraine is a fine example. If it joins NATO it will be because it’s elected representatives decided to join NATO. If it joins the new USSR it will be at the point of a gun, after much blood is spilled.
Go back to 1960s you came from and take all these retired admirals with you.
 

Harry Bosch

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Fareed Zacaria agrees with me.

Here is the clip Barbos say FZ agrees with him on. It's about six minutes long. Can we say Barbos is stretching the truth again?

Not this clip, I watched him on Anderson Cooper. Where he explains Russian position on NATO expansion rather well, and does not mention recreating Soviet Empire at all.
By the way I vaguelly rememeber this Stavridis character from his time in Europe.
He is a lying piece of shit.

Cool beans. Those meanies at Nato are at again. Can we find fault with Nato? You bet. IMO, the west poked the bear a little. Hit Russia when it was down. If we can find common ground, I'd love to see the west embrace Russia. I see no reason why we need to be enemies. We all want the same thing really. So, let's find a solution. A compromise. Why doesn't Putin honestly talk to the West? In a serious fashion. But here's the thing, the second Russia invades a sovereign country and kills people, they are at the wrong. Period. Of course the west is aligning against Russia, what do you expect? Rather than invade and call everyone a Nazi, why not find a compromise? Talk. In the event of an invasion, there will be many Russians killed also.
 

Elixir

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Sorry Barbos. I came from the 50s 😜
Gives me the long view. I can tell how that irritates you. Sorry, but the folly of youth has effected each of us at some time.
🤣
 

barbos

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ETA. 48% is a huge plurality in a country that has been subjected to Russian threats, and their intentionally sowing division, disinformation, and discontent for decades. Pootey’s boy Trump won the US Presidency with 49% and called it a landslide.
Only 48% find these threats credible enough to run for NATO protection. Putin must start threatening more, much more, to get to 51%
And again Eastern Ukraine did not participate in the poll.
 

Elixir

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Why doesn't Putin honestly talk to the West?

Putin is in it for Putin. Not for Russia, not for Russian people. Not even for his cadre of thieving oligarchs. Why talk to the west, when they continuously push that democracy crap with its distribution of power, separation of powers etc. ? Putin has no use for anything that could take any bit of power from him personally.
Read his biography, and it’s plain to see that the die were cast when he was holed up against the crowd on East Germany.
 

Elixir

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Sorry Barbos. I came from the 50s 😜
Gives me the long view. I can tell how that irritates you. Sorry, but the folly of youth has effected each of us at some time.
🤣
What are you? 90 years old? I am impressed.
Yes, Alzheimer annoys me.
Are you math challenged? I am astounded.
1950 was 71 years ago.
 

barbos

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Fareed Zacaria agrees with me.

Here is the clip Barbos say FZ agrees with him on. It's about six minutes long. Can we say Barbos is stretching the truth again?

Not this clip, I watched him on Anderson Cooper. Where he explains Russian position on NATO expansion rather well, and does not mention recreating Soviet Empire at all.
By the way I vaguelly rememeber this Stavridis character from his time in Europe.
He is a lying piece of shit.

Cool beans. Those meanies at Nato are at again. Can we find fault with Nato? You bet. IMO, the west poked the bear a little. Hit Russia when it was down. If we can find common ground, I'd love to see the west embrace Russia. I see no reason why we need to be enemies. We all want the same thing really. So, let's find a solution. A compromise. Why doesn't Putin honestly talk to the West? In a serious fashion. But here's the thing, the second Russia invades a sovereign country and kills people, they are at the wrong. Period. Of course the west is aligning against Russia, what do you expect? Rather than invade and call everyone a Nazi, why not find a compromise? Talk. In the event of an invasion, there will be many Russians killed also.

You want solution? You need to retire all these Russia experts, admirals and the rest of the scam who are financially interested to go to CNN and spew all that "expertise" they acquired over the years. Pay them the same money but demand to keep their crap to yourself. Yes, I am talking this piece of shit Stavridis, I remember him auditioning for post-military career.
 

Elixir

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Trade us Stavridis for Pooty?
You’d be a lot better off without that self interested kleptocrat.
 

barbos

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Sorry Barbos. I came from the 50s 😜
Gives me the long view. I can tell how that irritates you. Sorry, but the folly of youth has effected each of us at some time.
🤣
What are you? 90 years old? I am impressed.
Yes, Alzheimer annoys me.
Are you math challenged? I am astounded.
1950 was 71 years ago.
No, you are, from the 50s means you were adult in the 50s or at least became adult in the 50s
 

Harry Bosch

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The difference between NATO expansion and Russian expansion is night and day.
Ukraine is a fine example. If it joins NATO it will be because it’s elected representatives decided to join NATO. If it joins the new USSR it will be at the point of a gun, after much blood is spilled.
Go back to 1960s you came from and take all these retired admirals with you.
I'm not following you here. Are you saying that Nato is threatening Ukraine with invasion if they don't join Nato?
 
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