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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

Elixir

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Sorry Barbos. I came from the 50s 😜
Gives me the long view. I can tell how that irritates you. Sorry, but the folly of youth has effected each of us at some time.
🤣
What are you? 90 years old? I am impressed.
Yes, Alzheimer annoys me.
Are you math challenged? I am astounded.
1950 was 71 years ago.
No, you are, from the 50s means you were adult in the 50s or at least became adult in the 50s

Maybe it means that in Russian. I wouldn’t know. But you wrote it in English. I originated in the 50s so that is the era I am “from”.
No charge for the language lesson. You can thank me later.
 

barbos

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The difference between NATO expansion and Russian expansion is night and day.
Ukraine is a fine example. If it joins NATO it will be because it’s elected representatives decided to join NATO. If it joins the new USSR it will be at the point of a gun, after much blood is spilled.
Go back to 1960s you came from and take all these retired admirals with you.
I'm not following you here. Are you saying that Nato is threatening Ukraine with invasion if they don't join Nato?
No, I am saying NATO generals wet their pants for nothing when they dreamed about having a naval base in a russian city of Sevastopol.
So NATO threatened to invade Russia, not Ukraine.
 
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Elixir

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I'm not following you here. Are you saying that Nato is threatening Ukraine with invasion if they don't join Nato?

I always wonder about that when b starts in with his false equivalences. He always implies that NATO is that kind of outfit, but is never quite able to say it outright.
 

Jarhyn

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Aww, poor Pootey! Spent so many of his (stolen) billions trying to keep Ukraine in his portfolio, and now the bad bad US wants to kick the poor humanitarian to the curb and let the Trumpy Ukranians ally themselves with the European aggressors who have been trying to invade Russia and annex it for its oil ever since Crimea volunteered to become part of Russia.

^^^
Your news sources have turned you into a laughingstock, barbos.
Putin's ambition to re-create the Soviet glory days has remained the one constant in his erratic behavior. You can dress it up with all kinds lies, you can cite corrupt American motives, real and imagined, but the fact of Russia's perennial aggression can't be magically disappeared by your whining.
Can't counter facts and resort to attacking the messenger?
If "the messenger" ever came up with actual facts that were relevant and in context, I probably wouldn't counter them since they would be facts. But your specious pro-Putin bullshit contains few facts, and those it does reference are warped beyond recognition by the bias forced upon you by your handlers.
Not worth addressing, when the overriding fact is that rationalizing Russia's expansionist ambitions are truly the sole focus of all the arguments you've been fed. All those whataboutisms and false fears of the mighty Ukranian Empire encroaching on Russian territory - it's all bullshit, no matter how many irrelevant facts (like Russian nukes in Cuba) you try to drag into it.

Tell your bosses they need to send you into battle better equipped than this! It will make for much better discussion.
I personally prefer it when those spinning bad faith are easy to spot. In many ways, the conflict between good faith and bad is an efficient one.

You know, I was watching some He-Man Revelations the other day, and while most of it was just a really interesting reinvention and even redemption of a facile entertainment that could have easily been left happily in a dustbin...

It revisited the ancient trope of the scorpion on the water. Our world is doomed, the great filter is the scorpion on our backs over the water.
 

barbos

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I'm not following you here. Are you saying that Nato is threatening Ukraine with invasion if they don't join Nato?

I always wonder about that when b starts in with his false equivalences. He always implies that NATO is that kind of outfit, but is never quite able to say it outright.
NATO is obviously not that kind of outfit, It does not invade countries in order to make them join. Well, sometimes it kinda does (Serbia) but generally no, they simply don't have to. And it's irrelevant what small countries think. When it comes down to security of your own country opinion of other especially smaller countries become irrelevant.
Kennedy did not ask for opinion of cubans during Cuban Crisis.
Same here, Russia is not going to ask for opinion of ukrainians when security of the country is at stake. In fact you americans did the same, you fucking ignored opinion of ukrainians when you ordered them to give up nukes.

So shut up.
 

laughing dog

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The difference between NATO expansion and Russian expansion is night and day.
Ukraine is a fine example. If it joins NATO it will be because it’s elected representatives decided to join NATO. If it joins the new USSR it will be at the point of a gun, after much blood is spilled.
Go back to 1960s you came from and take all these retired admirals with you.
I'm not following you here. Are you saying that Nato is threatening Ukraine with invasion if they don't join Nato?
No, I am saying NATO generals wet their pants for nothing when they dreamed about having a naval base in a russian city of Sevastopol.
So NATO threatened to invade Russia, not Ukraine.
I think someone has been hitting the vodka a bit too hard.
 

Elixir

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...It [NATO] does not invade countries in order to make them join. Well, sometimes it kinda does...

Like I said... He always implies that NATO is that kind of outfit, but is never quite able to say it outright.

So shut up.

Aw. Such level headed response. Butthurt, much?
If you don't like your false equivalences being pointed out, maybe stop with the false equivalences.
 

Jarhyn

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I'm not following you here. Are you saying that Nato is threatening Ukraine with invasion if they don't join Nato?

I always wonder about that when b starts in with his false equivalences. He always implies that NATO is that kind of outfit, but is never quite able to say it outright.
NATO is obviously not that kind of outfit, It does not invade countries in order to make them join. Well, sometimes it kinda does (Serbia) but generally no, they simply don't have to. And it's irrelevant what small countries think. When it comes down to security of your own country opinion of other especially smaller countries become irrelevant.
Kennedy did not ask for opinion of cubans during Cuban Crisis.
Same here, Russia is not going to ask for opinion of ukrainians when security of the country is at stake. In fact you americans did the same, you fucking ignored opinion of ukrainians when you ordered them to give up nukes.

So shut up.
Oh. My. Dog.

"Might makes right, self over others."

We see you.
 

barbos

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...It [NATO] does not invade countries in order to make them join. Well, sometimes it kinda does...

Like I said... He always implies that NATO is that kind of outfit, but is never quite able to say it outright.
Like I said, I am a fair person. But NATO did invade Iraq and Serbia.
And again, it's irrelevant. Primary goal of NATO has always been Russia. Small countries are just tools to reaching that goal.
So shut up.

Aw. Such level headed response. Butthurt, much?
If you don't like your false equivalences being pointed out, maybe stop with the false equivalences.
So no comment on Cuba? as expected. Still weird, considering that you must remember it firsthand.
 

SLD

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I seriously doubt Putin is actually planning an invasion. All of this maneuvering doesn’t amount to a full scale invasion of the country. He’s put 70,000 troops on the border. He’d likely need ten times that number for a full scale invasion. This has all the hallmarks of another psyop on the part of Putin. He’s sending a message: don’t join NATO. And they shouldn’t.

A full scale invasion of Ukraine is far too risky for Putin. It would galvanize NATO, and they’d greatly increase their defense spending in response. And they would definitely help Ukraine fight back, if not actually join the fight. His northern flank would be greatly threatened. He would likely lose nordstream, and many other economic benefits. He isn't popular enough at home to sustain the casualties. He is not Stalin. And the casualties would be horrendous for him. He would win in the end, but at a severe cost. And what would he gain? Control of one of Europe’s poorest country? And then what? Could he even control it? Doubtful. Why the fuck would he want Ukraine?

I doubt even if his military would support him in such a stupid endeavor. He risks losing power. And I suspect he knows this. Thus I see this as a calculated saber rattling to deter Ukraine from aligning too closely with the west, and to stay out of Donbas.

Of course war is borne of such strategic miscalculations. It’s possible that the saber rattling could inadvertently set off a war. But I doubt that’s his intention.

As for our response? First it must be united with our NATO allies. They should not reward him for saber rattling in this fashion. Just make it clear that there will be severe consequences if he does so. The message should also be to his generals, that we would, at a minimum, supply Ukraine with everything they need to defend themselves, and we would boycott all oil and natural gas sales from Russia. We also would want Xi Jingping’s support, but we just pissed him off by boycotting the olympics.
 

Elixir

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Kennedy did not ask for opinion of cubans during Cuban Crisis.

ROFL!!!
He also didn't invade Cuba. His beef wasn't with Cuba in the first place.
Well technically he did, Bay of Pigs, rings a bell? You should remember you were alive, right?

Yeah. He took one little corner of the island to ensure no more Russian funny business.
Never marched on Havana though, just made nasty Nikita take his toys home. I never really understood that logic.
But I remember it. Do you? Do you also remember who the Republican nominee for US president was in 1960 and what his plan was for dealing with the Soviet Union?
 

barbos

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SLD, you're looking at this from wrong perspective.
Tensions have been building up as function of completeness of Nord Stream 2.
Ukraine is hopelessly trying to stop it and the only way to stop it is to start a war and blame Russia for it. That is the plan.
 

barbos

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Kennedy did not ask for opinion of cubans during Cuban Crisis.

ROFL!!!
He also didn't invade Cuba. His beef wasn't with Cuba in the first place.
Well technically he did, Bay of Pigs, rings a bell? You should remember you were alive, right?

Yeah. He took one little corner of the island to ensure no more Russian funny business.
Never marched on Havana though, just made nasty Nikita take his toys home. I never really understood that logic.
But I remember it. Do you? Do you also remember who the Republican nominee for US president was in 1960 and what his plan was for dealing with the Soviet Union?
Dude, Missile Crisis happened AFTER that little "non-invasion", in fact that little "non-invasion" was one of the reasons Castro decided he would really like to have some nukes.
 

Elixir

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Dude, Missile Crisis happened AFTER that little non-invasion, in fact that little non-invasion was one of the reasons Castro decided he would really like to have some nukes.

Dude, the Bay of Pigs Invasion happened in April 1961. It was a failed attack launched by the CIA to push Cuban leader Fidel Castro from power. It was not an attempt to invade and occupy Cuba. Meanwhile, the Soviet missile buildup began a year earlier...

You don't remember because you were not alive. You only know what your handlers have told you about it.
 

barbos

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Dude, Missile Crisis happened AFTER that little non-invasion, in fact that little non-invasion was one of the reasons Castro decided he would really like to have some nukes.

Dude, the Bay of Pigs Invasion happened in April 1961. It was a failed attack launched by the CIA to push Cuban leader Fidel Castro from power. It was not an attempt to invade and occupy Cuba. Meanwhile, the Soviet missile buildup began a year earlier...
You mean the same thing you did in Ukraine?
Dude, you are really losing badly :)

You don't remember because you were not alive. You only know what your handlers have told you about it.
No, I read it on wikipedia and I have no handlers.

So why did you feel so threatened by Cuba that you decided to "non-invade" it?
Cuba is even smaller than Ukraine and it is separated by water.
 

Elixir

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Right, it all makes it right, It was not invasion, CIA are the good guys. Right.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said (NOT!).

An "invasion and occupation", FYI, is like what Russia did in Crimea, not like what the US did in Cuba.
Look it up:

Simferopol City Municipality Сімферопольська міськрада
Country Disputed: Ukraine (de jure) Russia (de facto)
Region Crimea1
Capital Simferopol

You won't see:

Havana City Municipality
CountryDisputed: Cuba (de jure) USA (de facto)
RegionCarribbean
CapitalHavana

...and that's what makes yours a FALSE equivalence.
 

Elixir

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Trade us Stavridis for Pooty?
No, you would have to add a dozen of Stavridises to be a fair trade.
Is it Stavridises or Stavridisi?

Ah, let me help you out here...

Creating the Plural Form of Masculine Nouns in the Greek Language​

As mentioned in a previous article, Greek nouns are classified as to whether or not they are masculine, feminine, or neuter. The classification impacts the endings of the words, as well as the articles of the words. When creating a plural, both the endings and the articles need to be pluralized.

Here’s a look at the plural masculine articles for nouns in Greek:

  • Definite Article – ο – (o) as in ο άντρας – on anthras – the man
  • Indefinite Article – ένας (enas) as in ένας άντρας – enas anthras – a man
The first step to creating the plural of masculine words in the Greek language is to make the article plural.

  • Definite Article – ο becomes οι (ee) as in οι άνδρες (ee anthres)
To make the indefinite articles plural, you need to do a bit more work. In this case, ένας (enas), which technically means “one” will either be omitted or a number that is more than one will be in its place:

  • δύο άνδρες – theeo anthres – two men
  • τρεις άνδρες – trees anthres – three men
  • δέκα άνδρες – theka anthres – ten men
If you want to translate a sentence such as I am Man you would omit the indefinite article completely. The sentence would read: είμαι άνδρας (eemai anthres)

Did you notice how the ending of the word “άντρας” changed to “άνδρες”? Each masculine noun gets a new ending when making a plural. Here’s a look at the plural form for masculine words:

  • Words ending in ος (os) become οι (ee) – φίλος (filos) becomes φίλοι
  • Words ending in ής (ees) or ας (as) become ές or ες – so μαθητής (mathitis) becomes μαθητές (mathites)
  • Words ending in ούς (oos) turns into ούδες (oothes) – so παππούς (pappous) becomes παππούδες (pappouthes)
  • Words ending in ές (es) turns into έδες (ethes) – so καφές (kaffes) becomes καφέδες (kafethes)

As with any grammatical concept, it is important to become familiar with it and even practice it a little. However, you don’t need to spend too much time on it. As you begin to experience the Greek language, you will become more familiar.

Simple, right? You're welcome! :D
 

Jimmy Higgins

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I seriously doubt Putin is actually planning an invasion. All of this maneuvering doesn’t amount to a full scale invasion of the country. He’s put 70,000 troops on the border. He’d likely need ten times that number for a full scale invasion. This has all the hallmarks of another psyop on the part of Putin. He’s sending a message: don’t join NATO. And they shouldn’t.
He can't invade Ukraine, that is negative. He would be inserting troops to "stabilize the region" of Eastern Ukraine. Russian citizens are in danger there! This is a humanitarian missi... wait, what did Eastern Ukraine say? They "want" to rejoin Russia?! Well of course, but let's "vote" on it first. This isn't empire building, it is "democracy in action". Besides, *insert historical fluff about how Eastern Ukraine is really Russia in Ukraine*. The fact that we can put into words what hasn't, but will, happen is a bit comical and sad. This is a bloody rerun, change the channel!

I get that the EU, NATO, US can all be political and act on their own self-interests even at the harming of other national self-interests, but barbos is allowing to be sold a Russia is the victim angle here.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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You don't remember because you were not alive. You only know what your handlers have told you about it.
No, I read it on wikipedia and I have no handlers.

So why did you feel so threatened by Cuba that you decided to "non-invade" it?
Cuba is even smaller than Ukraine and it is separated by water.
Money. The guy who replaced our guy was fucking with our money. And that couldn't be allowed. We needed to fix things and put someone a lot more democratic capitalistic someone that'd let us do whatever the heck we wanted (and give us back our stuff) in charge. And the best part, we just needed a small force. The people of Cuba would rise up and join us and do most of the hard work. They missed their dictator! This was a humanitarian mission! :D

It was pretty much an across the seas version of John Brown's Harper's Ferry.

Also, this was never about territory and trying to seize control of Cuba. We'd already given them their independence twice. We just wanted the agriculture and vacation stuff. And Cubans worked cheap! Yeah, the US are dicks sometimes.

Ukraine is different. Putin is annexing territory. The funny part about most of this is that the thing putting the US and Russia at odds is merely shadow projection. We share a lot in common. The main differences are the US is actually successful economically and we outsource our cruelty.
 

barbos

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You don't remember because you were not alive. You only know what your handlers have told you about it.
No, I read it on wikipedia and I have no handlers.

So why did you feel so threatened by Cuba that you decided to "non-invade" it?
Cuba is even smaller than Ukraine and it is separated by water.
Money. The guy who replaced our guy was fucking with our money. And that couldn't be allowed. We needed to fix things and put someone a lot more democratic capitalistic someone that'd let us do whatever the heck we wanted (and give us back our stuff) in charge. And the best part, we just needed a small force. The people of Cuba would rise up and join us and do most of the hard work. They missed their dictator! This was a humanitarian mission! :D

It was pretty much an across the seas version of John Brown's Harper's Ferry.

Also, this was never about territory and trying to seize control of Cuba. We'd already given them their independence twice. We just wanted the agriculture and vacation stuff. And Cubans worked cheap! Yeah, the US are dicks sometimes.

Ukraine is different. Putin is annexing territory.
Yes, Ukraine starts with 'U' then it is 'k' .....

I am sorry it's only quantitatively different. You replaced russian puppet with yours who decided to cut all economic ties and give Sevastopol base to NATO, it would cost orders and orders of magnitude more money to Russia than cubans taking over your whore house business.

By the way, legally speaking Sevastopol have never been a part of Ukraine, Not in Soviet Union not in independent Ukraine. It was never formally redistricted into Ukraine, it has always been part of Russia. Russia was paying rent for something they owned to some random guy (Ukraine). Russian accountants suck!
Would it be funny if NATO got into Sevastopol and then russian lawyers come and kick you out because Ukraine had no rights over it :)
 

Jimmy Higgins

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You don't remember because you were not alive. You only know what your handlers have told you about it.
No, I read it on wikipedia and I have no handlers.

So why did you feel so threatened by Cuba that you decided to "non-invade" it?
Cuba is even smaller than Ukraine and it is separated by water.
Money. The guy who replaced our guy was fucking with our money. And that couldn't be allowed. We needed to fix things and put someone a lot more democratic capitalistic someone that'd let us do whatever the heck we wanted (and give us back our stuff) in charge. And the best part, we just needed a small force. The people of Cuba would rise up and join us and do most of the hard work. They missed their dictator! This was a humanitarian mission! :D

It was pretty much an across the seas version of John Brown's Harper's Ferry.

Also, this was never about territory and trying to seize control of Cuba. We'd already given them their independence twice. We just wanted the agriculture and vacation stuff. And Cubans worked cheap! Yeah, the US are dicks sometimes.

Ukraine is different. Putin is annexing territory.
Yes, Ukraine starts with 'U' then it is 'k' .....

I am sorry it's only quantitatively different. You replaced russian puppet with yours who decided to cut all economic ties and give Sevastopol base to NATO, it would cost orders and orders of magnitude more money to Russia than cubans taking over your whore house business.
I've got to think there was more money in agriculture and hotels. Regardless, wasn't Ukraine kind of sick of the bs and corruption, so they elected a populist instead? There were reasons he won the election. Ukrainian government is an absolute mess.
By the way, legally speaking Sevastopol have never been a part of Ukraine, Not in Soviet Union not in independent Ukraine. It was never formally redistricted into Ukraine, it has always been part of Russia. Russia was paying rent for something they owned to some random guy (Ukraine) Russian accountants suck!
Like I said, *insert fluff*.
 

barbos

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I've got to think there was more money in agriculture and hotels.
What is the difference between Cuban hotel at the time and a brothel?
Regardless, wasn't Ukraine kind of sick of the bs and corruption, so they elected a populist instead? There were reasons he won the election. Ukrainian government is an absolute mess
Which populist? the last one? yes, he is a professional comedian who played a president on TV.
Previous one was a billionaire, corrupt one at that. He is gonna win next elections though. If you combine these two and take 70% of the brain out you will get Trump
 

Jimmy Higgins

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I've got to think there was more money in agriculture and hotels.
What is the difference between Cuban hotel at the time and a brothel?
I'd assume the room service amenities vary. Though I'd say you are struggling to be disagreeable here.
Regardless, wasn't Ukraine kind of sick of the bs and corruption, so they elected a populist instead? There were reasons he won the election. Ukrainian government is an absolute mess
Which populist? the last one? yes, he is a professional comedian who played a president on TV.
Previous one was a billionaire, corrupt one at that. He is gonna win next elections though. If you combine these two and take 70% of the brain out you will get Trump
There is a lot more to Trump's trumpiness than lack of brains, especially for politics. Again, Trump is off-topic. This thread is about how Putin is going to help "stabilize" the danger to "Russians" in Eastern Ukraine. This will be followed by Eastern Ukraine "asking" to "rejoin Russia". There will be an "election"... and the West will call it BS and sanction Russia because NATO sure the heck isn't going to war over Ukraine.
 

barbos

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I've got to think there was more money in agriculture and hotels.
What is the difference between Cuban hotel at the time and a brothel?
I'd assume the room service amenities vary. Though I'd say you are struggling to be disagreeable here.
Regardless, wasn't Ukraine kind of sick of the bs and corruption, so they elected a populist instead? There were reasons he won the election. Ukrainian government is an absolute mess
Which populist? the last one? yes, he is a professional comedian who played a president on TV.
Previous one was a billionaire, corrupt one at that. He is gonna win next elections though. If you combine these two and take 70% of the brain out you will get Trump
There is a lot more to Trump's trumpiness than lack of brains, especially for politics. Again, Trump is off-topic. This thread is about how Putin is going to help "stabilize" the danger to "Russians" in Eastern Ukraine. This will be followed by Eastern Ukraine "asking" to "rejoin Russia". There will be an "election"... and the West will call it BS and sanction Russia because NATO sure the heck isn't going to war over Ukraine.
Trump is a corrupt billionaire and a showman, the last two Ukrainian presidents were a corrupt billionaire and a showman. The difference these two are not dumb.'

You seem to be implying that Crimeans really wanted to stay in Ukraine, but Putin forced them to vote to leave.

Sorry to disappoint you but even the most brain-dead ukrainians don't believe that. otherwise they would not have cut water immediately once it became clear that voting can't be stopped.

Eastern Ukraine is less russian than Crimea but is still safely russian and "ukrainians" don't dispute that. Crimea leaving was not a sham, sorry.

If I had to predict, I think Ukraine will try to invade Eastern Ukraine in the hope for Russia invasion but it would not happen, instead they will repel invasion from the air.

Remember you all were sure that Putin would occupy Georgia? Well, he did not, he left after repelling georgian attack on South Ossetia. Putin is not as dumb as your dumb admirals think. He understands that he needs to do just enough to save Nord Stream 2, even though your corrupt media will try to paint him as aggressor there.
 

Elixir

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I don’t blame Pooty for his Ukraine paranoia. Ukraine joining NATO would be to Russia just a little bit like Newfoundland joining the Soviet Union would be to the US (except dumber). Maybe not an immediate overt threat, but uncomfortable on a lot of levels.
OTOH, Russia taking it over would put the Bear right on the doorstep of Western Europe. Maybe the current state of instability needs to be stabilized as such.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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I've got to think there was more money in agriculture and hotels.
What is the difference between Cuban hotel at the time and a brothel?
I'd assume the room service amenities vary. Though I'd say you are struggling to be disagreeable here.
Regardless, wasn't Ukraine kind of sick of the bs and corruption, so they elected a populist instead? There were reasons he won the election. Ukrainian government is an absolute mess
Which populist? the last one? yes, he is a professional comedian who played a president on TV.
Previous one was a billionaire, corrupt one at that. He is gonna win next elections though. If you combine these two and take 70% of the brain out you will get Trump
There is a lot more to Trump's trumpiness than lack of brains, especially for politics. Again, Trump is off-topic. This thread is about how Putin is going to help "stabilize" the danger to "Russians" in Eastern Ukraine. This will be followed by Eastern Ukraine "asking" to "rejoin Russia". There will be an "election"... and the West will call it BS and sanction Russia because NATO sure the heck isn't going to war over Ukraine.
You seem to be implying that Crimeans really wanted to stay in Ukraine, but Putin forced them to vote to leave.

Sorry to disappoint you but even the most brain-dead ukrainians don't believe that. otherwise they would not have cut water immediately once it became clear that voting can't be stopped.
That is so reassuring. :cool:
Eastern Ukraine is less russian than Crimea but is still safely russian and "ukrainians" don't dispute that.
You, filling in my narrative already.
If I had to predict, I think Ukraine will try to invade Eastern Ukraine in the hope for Russia invasion but it would not happen, instead they will repel invasion from the air.
And shooting down Dutch airlines.
Remember you all were sure that Putin would occupy Georgia? Well, he did not, he left after repelling georgian attack on South Ossetia. Putin is not as dumb as your dumb admirals think. He understands that he needs to do just enough to save Nord Stream 2, even though your corrupt media will try to paint him as aggressor there.
I have no idea how smart of dumb Putin is. I'm not sold on if he is a one man show or a puppet of a large group. I think it might be a smart front man of a larger group. But your statements seem at odds. Why would Ukraine start a war in eastern Ukraine?
 

Jimmy Higgins

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I don’t blame Pooty for his Ukraine paranoia. Ukraine joining NATO would be to Russia just a little bit like Newfoundland joining the Soviet Union would be to the US (except dumber). Maybe not an immediate overt threat, but uncomfortable on a lot of levels.
OTOH, Russia taking it over would put the Bear right on the doorstep of Western Europe. Maybe the current state of instability needs to be stabilized as such.
Isn't this the issue? I'm not sold NATO really wants Ukraine to join up. It would destabilize NATO, not empower it. Putin/Russia likes to kick hornets nests.
 

barbos

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I don’t blame Pooty for his Ukraine paranoia. Ukraine joining NATO would be to Russia just a little bit like Newfoundland joining the Soviet Union would be to the US (except dumber). Maybe not an immediate overt threat, but uncomfortable on a lot of levels.
OTOH, Russia taking it over would put the Bear right on the doorstep of Western Europe. Maybe the current state of instability needs to be stabilized as such.
Isn't this the issue? I'm not sold NATO really wants Ukraine to join up. It would destabilize NATO, not empower it. Putin/Russia likes to kick hornets nests.
No, not that. You keep implying that NATO is a nice organization but it's not if you are a country which is on a receiving end of that shit (ask Serbia)
NATO is constantly harassing Russian forces at russian border. Forbids cargo military planes passing over NATO countries. It was a pain in the ass during Russian anti-terrorism campaign in Syria for example. Russia is an ultimate goal of NATO, nothing really changed since Cold War. And it has been that way since Russia became big.
Great Britain France started the fucking Crimean War for no other reasons than Russia being big.
 

Jarhyn

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I don’t blame Pooty for his Ukraine paranoia. Ukraine joining NATO would be to Russia just a little bit like Newfoundland joining the Soviet Union would be to the US (except dumber). Maybe not an immediate overt threat, but uncomfortable on a lot of levels.
OTOH, Russia taking it over would put the Bear right on the doorstep of Western Europe. Maybe the current state of instability needs to be stabilized as such.
Isn't this the issue? I'm not sold NATO really wants Ukraine to join up. It would destabilize NATO, not empower it. Putin/Russia likes to kick hornets nests.
No, not that. You keep implying that NATO is a nice organization but it's not if you are a country which is on a receiving end of that shit (ask Serbia)
NATO is constantly harassing Russian forces at russian border. Forbids cargo military planes passing over NATO countries. It was a pain in the ass during Russian anti-terrorism campaign in Syria for example. Russia is an ultimate goal of NATO, nothing really changed since Cold War. And it has been that way since Russia became big.
Great Britain France started the fucking Crimean War for no other reasons than Russia being big.
I'm sure you think that.

And I'm sure that lady downtown really thinks she's a Russian Princess.
 

Jarhyn

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I don’t blame Pooty for his Ukraine paranoia. Ukraine joining NATO would be to Russia just a little bit like Newfoundland joining the Soviet Union would be to the US (except dumber). Maybe not an immediate overt threat, but uncomfortable on a lot of levels.
OTOH, Russia taking it over would put the Bear right on the doorstep of Western Europe. Maybe the current state of instability needs to be stabilized as such.
I don't find it uncomfortable in the least, assuming that the US didn't start amassing troops to prepare to invade Newfoundland unilaterally.

I would be very angry if that happened, the US engaging on a unilateral attack. And was, when it happened in Iraq. It cost me 3 years of my life to join the army, and it wasn't to protect American interests per SE, but to be exactly the line in the sand against further abuse by those to my left and right and the terrorist threat to my front as well.

Not exactly what a lot of people want to see of someone issued a gun by the state. But there it is. Someone has to "be there" who still cares about doing the right thing and will do it even to personal consequence.
 

Elixir

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Barbos said:
Ukrainian Government openly suggested hanging russians in Ukraine. Your fucking media have never reported that. I repeat, goverment critters suggested that.

Oh me oh my whatever will we do???!!!
Critters suggesting such things is just SO shocking. Like Trump wanting to shoot protesters, Congressmen and anyone else who tells the truth about him.
Did your media tell you about that?
 

ZiprHead

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Barbos said:
Ukrainian Government openly suggested hanging russians in Ukraine. Your fucking media have never reported that. I repeat, goverment critters suggested that.

Oh me oh my whatever will we do???!!!
Critters suggesting such things is just SO shocking. Like Trump wanting to shoot protesters, Congressmen and anyone else who tells the truth about him.
Did your media tell you about that?
Don't forget 2nd Amendment solutions.
 

Gospel

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If I was in charge. I'd make it as clear as possible that the USA will let India dictate what the US will do about Russia. Nothing sparks more drama in the hood than telling an enemy his best friend has the power to decide his fate. :sneaky:
 

barbos

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Barbos said:
Ukrainian Government openly suggested hanging russians in Ukraine. Your fucking media have never reported that. I repeat, goverment critters suggested that.

Oh me oh my whatever will we do???!!!
Critters suggesting such things is just SO shocking. Like Trump wanting to shoot protesters, Congressmen and anyone else who tells the truth about him.
Did your media tell you about that?
Technically it was YOUR media - twitter. Your old media simply ignored it.
And now Trump is a gold standard of responsible politician?
 

barbos

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barbos

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Looks like there is a general understanding that Nord Stream 2 will not be part of the sanctions even if something happens in Ukraine. Even though germans themselves were publicly threatening to shoot themselves in the foot.
It's a very good sign, it takes away the main incentive to start a war from Ukrainian Junta.
I guess russian forces near ukrainian border DID prevent a war.
 
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Harry Bosch

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Looks like there is a general understanding that Nord Stream 2 will not be part of the sanctions even if something happens in Ukraine. Even though germans themselves were publicly threatening to shoot themselves in the foot.
It's a very good sign, it takes away the main incentive to start a war from Ukrainian Junta.
I guess russian forces near ukrainian border DID prevent a war.
Where are you getting that? Very clearly, if Russia invades and starts another war, no more Nord Stream 2.
 

barbos

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Looks like there is a general understanding that Nord Stream 2 will not be part of the sanctions even if something happens in Ukraine. Even though germans themselves were publicly threatening to shoot themselves in the foot.
It's a very good sign, it takes away the main incentive to start a war from Ukrainian Junta.
I guess russian forces near ukrainian border DID prevent a war.
Where are you getting that? Very clearly, if Russia invades and starts another war, no more Nord Stream 2.
I get that from Ukraine, they are very disappointed with results of Biden-Putin zoom.
Specifically these trumpo-nazis noticed that Biden redacted military budget removing Nord Stream sanctions ..... 2 hours after zoom call :) They said Biden could have at least waited couple of days so it would not look so obvious :)

So WW3 has been cancelled :)
 
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