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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?
- Thread starter Harry Bosch
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steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Kinda' makes your head spin.
Jimmy Higgins
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Naw, just making Russia look more like a "victim". Russia / Putin is under a time crunch. They must occupy eastern Ukraine as fast as they can, and then call for peace. They only have so much money and supply to work with.Russia alleges that Ukraine has shelled Golovicho village in Belgorod region on Russian side of the border.
3 wounded as result of shelling in Golovchino village of Belgorod region - governor Belgorod, Belgorodskaya oblast' - Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com
3 wounded as result of shelling in Golovchino village of Belgorod region - governor . Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a variety of important topics including conflicts, human rights issues...liveuamap.com
There are also pictures of destroyed civilian houses. To me it seems there's nothing there worthy to destroy though. The main supply lines are elsewhere. Could this be a false flag to justify martial law and mobilization in Russia?
SLD
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US troops to train Ukrainian forces on howitzers in coming days
The training, which will occur outside Ukraine, will teach Ukrainian forces to operate the 155mm howitzers. They will then return to the fight and train other Ukrainians to use the American cannons, the official said.
so we are training Ukrainians on using our military equipment already. Granted, howitzers aren't particularly complicated to learn. And the trainees already know how to use artillery. M1A1’s may be more difficult, but someone trained with T72’s could learn it fairly quick. Although providing them with other NATO Soviet bloc weapons may make more sense.
the UK is also supplying a variety of armored vehicles and the training to go with it.
The UK Is Delivering a Menagerie of Armored Vehicles to Ukraine
Wheeled or tracked, such vehicles are useful to Ukraine as it shifts forces eastward to counter mounting Russian operations focusing on the Donbas region in Eastern Ukraine.
www.19fortyfive.com
If the war lasts much longer, further supplies and training will be necessary. I wonder if Putin’s new strategy will be to simply hold on to what he has taken and not engage in offensive operations. He will use artillery to shell Ukrainian positions, but not actually engage in much advancing towards other objectives. Then the war reverts somewhat to how it was before the invasion, just with him in control of more territory, and maybe more activity along the front. That could de-escalate the situation further, and allow him to minimize further losses and sort of claim victory. He liberated Donbas!
But I think it would be clear to many that he failed and the operation was a waste. And while everyone will say he won’t be overthrown, the failure can’t be papered over for too long. At some point he is gone. Maybe ten years from now. But in the meantime, he’s setting the stage for a massive catastrophe for Russia, and eventually he loses. I just wish it would happen soon. And it might.
SLD
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Could the Siloviki Challenge Putin?
What it would take for Kremlin insiders to stage a coup.
[/QUOTE]
so the key is a combination of military defeat and economic collapse. The sanctions should be much tougher, and ultimately they should lose their oil exports. Somehow The Russian economy must be broken. That’s tough for the ordinary Russian, but necessary for the long run.
Jimmy Higgins
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Naw, he needs a lot more than the area they control at the moment... to justify all of the hardship and sacrifices the rich have had to endure.US troops to train Ukrainian forces on howitzers in coming days
The training, which will occur outside Ukraine, will teach Ukrainian forces to operate the 155mm howitzers. They will then return to the fight and train other Ukrainians to use the American cannons, the official said.www.stripes.com
so we are training Ukrainians on using our military equipment already. Granted, howitzers aren't particularly complicated to learn. And the trainees already know how to use artillery. M1A1’s may be more difficult, but someone trained with T72’s could learn it fairly quick. Although providing them with other NATO Soviet bloc weapons may make more sense.
the UK is also supplying a variety of armored vehicles and the training to go with it.
The UK Is Delivering a Menagerie of Armored Vehicles to Ukraine
Wheeled or tracked, such vehicles are useful to Ukraine as it shifts forces eastward to counter mounting Russian operations focusing on the Donbas region in Eastern Ukraine.
If the war lasts much longer, further supplies and training will be necessary. I wonder if Putin’s new strategy will be to simply hold on to what he has taken and not engage in offensive operations.
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61 year old Malcolm Nance has joined the International Foreign Legion and is now fighting for Ukraine.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
I read an article recently where someone in their mid sixties volunteered for service in the Ukraine military, thinking he'd basically be carrying the water bucket. To his surprise they issued him a full kit. He was elated.
Since you say Navy--could you walk aboard a warship, find a target and hit it with a Harpoon? (Assume you have all required access but you're alone.) If you can, how long did it take you to learn all the systems that are involved?
Jayjay
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I was wondering about the same thing. Both Ukraine and Russia teased with a beginning of a major battle in Donbas... and then nothing happened? Except shelling and missiles all over the place. I think Russians are afraid to try really large maneuvers because they failed so spectacularly in the beginning, the troops morale is in the gutter, and their equipment needs fixing. So they're playing it safe and relying on artillery.US troops to train Ukrainian forces on howitzers in coming days
The training, which will occur outside Ukraine, will teach Ukrainian forces to operate the 155mm howitzers. They will then return to the fight and train other Ukrainians to use the American cannons, the official said.
so we are training Ukrainians on using our military equipment already. Granted, howitzers aren't particularly complicated to learn. And the trainees already know how to use artillery. M1A1’s may be more difficult, but someone trained with T72’s could learn it fairly quick. Although providing them with other NATO Soviet bloc weapons may make more sense.
the UK is also supplying a variety of armored vehicles and the training to go with it.
The UK Is Delivering a Menagerie of Armored Vehicles to Ukraine
Wheeled or tracked, such vehicles are useful to Ukraine as it shifts forces eastward to counter mounting Russian operations focusing on the Donbas region in Eastern Ukraine.
If the war lasts much longer, further supplies and training will be necessary. I wonder if Putin’s new strategy will be to simply hold on to what he has taken and not engage in offensive operations. He will use artillery to shell Ukrainian positions, but not actually engage in much advancing towards other objectives. Then the war reverts somewhat to how it was before the invasion, just with him in control of more territory, and maybe more activity along the front. That could de-escalate the situation further, and allow him to minimize further losses and sort of claim victory. He liberated Donbas!
Before the war, I thought what you described would have been the most logical thing for Russia to do. Take the low hanging fruit between Crimea and Donbas, threaten with bigger war and force Ukraine into a ceasefire, then repeat after a couple of years with new demands. But instead, they went all in and tried to get not only land bridge to Crimea, but also capture Kyiv and maybe Odessa and Kharkiv. Now after the embarrassing defeat they're trying to scale back to more modest goals, but it doesn't work that way because Ukraine has had a taste of blood, and international community is giving unprecedented support to keep the war going. Putin will try to spin it so that Russia has gained some measure of "victory" by May 9th, and in real terms they have, but it will be very difficult to de-escalate and put the genie back in the bottle and force Ukraine into a ceasefire.
"Hey buddy, sorry about shelling all your cities for two months. Let's call it a draw?"
Somehow I don't think that's going to fly.
We'll see.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
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Whom is having trouble with the word "Howitzer". I suspect it would be the US troops rather than the Ukrainians.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Let's not forget that the U.S. inventory once included an 8 inch "gun." The 8 inch "gun" fired tactical nukes. Is that beast still around? Your standard destroyer only carried 5 inch guns so an 8 inch piece of artillery was a beast.
155 howitzers are a piece of cake. The Ukrainians will take about 60 seconds to master the instrument.
155 howitzers are a piece of cake. The Ukrainians will take about 60 seconds to master the instrument.
bilby
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155mm is considerably larger than five inches. Indeed, it is more than six inches.
Since they will be using them in a battle situation they need to be pretty good at breaking down the guns quickly. That will take considerably more than 60 seconds of practice. While I'm sure the Russian counterbattery fire will be as inept as everything else we have seen in this war that doesn't mean you can just sit there and expect to survive.
Jimmy Higgins
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155 mm... 6 in.... *American brain imploding*
Had they just used metric to describe penis sizes, American men would have adopted metric immediately! /ot
Harry Bosch
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Uh oh! China is threatening to bomb Ukraine after they thanked Taiwan for its support:
Just kidding that China threatened to bomb them. But honestly, very sick of big powerful countries bullying the shit out of smaller countries. The world needs to continue to arm the shit out of countries under attack and use sanctions to bankrupt those that bully.
Just kidding that China threatened to bomb them. But honestly, very sick of big powerful countries bullying the shit out of smaller countries. The world needs to continue to arm the shit out of countries under attack and use sanctions to bankrupt those that bully.
Jimmy Higgins
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The horror that was WWII apparently is far enough in the collective memory of the globe, that we are steering ourselves into another global catastrophe.
Harry Bosch
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Agreed. There is one country fighting to stop WW3, and that's Ukraine. If Russia imperialism stops in Ukraine, war probably won't spread to the rest of Europe. But that's why we should do everything we can to help Ukraine. And to be frank, we aren't doing enough. They are running out of supplies. They need the ability to strike at Russian artillery that are just leveling Ukraine. If Ukraine is wiped out it will because of the inability of the west to sufficiently send them aid.