How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

Jay, twitter is banned and it is utter garbage and fake anyway.
But statues? really? busses?
How can you even come to such conclusion?
What the fuck are you smoking?

 

[ZiprHead]

I understand it's hard for you to face reality but it is what it is. Your media lies to you.
Your politicians lie to you.

Unless they're Russian, of course.

Well, according to Mersheimer, yes.
Russians are notoriously bad liars, and being aware of that they rarely resort to that.

 

[Jayjay]

Show me one piece of evidence that Ukraine is using "western operators", rather than just having been trained to use the equipment?

LOL. Last time I checked you needed 6 months to learn how to operate HIMARS.
Poles are operating it.

Says who? Russian propaganda?

And HIMARS weren't delivered until June. There were several months to train the Ukrainians to use them before that. It hardly takes six months... and even if it does according to some manual, in a hurry the remainder can be crammed on the field.

Ukrainians complained that they had to use google fucking translate to read instructions for these useless anti-tank systems in the early days of war.

Yes, in early days. Now it's been over 8 months. The Ceasar interface for example was translated to Ukrainian if I recall correctly.

And here you want to translate HIMARS to russian and then teach ukrainians to use them in a matter of weeks.

Ukraine has 16 HIMARS launchers, and they started with just four. So maybe a hundred or so people have been trained to use it, to account for rotations. It's not impossible or even that hard to find a hundred people who can read English out of a country of 44 million people.

 

[barbos]

OK, I looked this twitter crap up
Seriously? that;s your evidence of leaving?
Statue of a Suvorov being evacuated?
And busses?
Are you fucking kidding me?

Yes, I would evacuate Suvorov's statue too.
Not because I would be planning to leave but because nazi scam is shelling the city.

 

[barbos]

Says who? Russian propaganda?

Say american military people.
And my own common sense confirms that.
Poles are manning it.

 

[Jayjay]

True, reliance on Russian resources complicates illegal western war on Russia.

Ukraine is defending its own territory from an invading country. There's nothing illegal about it.

The rest of us are just helping out a bit.

Serbia called and said they wanted their territory back

Funny that you should mention it, because Serbia was one of the countries who voted for the UN resolution that condems the fake "referendums" in Ukraine.

Not even Russia's allies are buying the horse shit that Putin is peddling.

Sorry man, that's not Ukrainian territory anymore. It's Russia now. It never was Ukraine in fact. It has always been Russia, and they know it. That's why they indiscriminately bomb civilians there, have been for 8 years.

Both Russia's puppet regime in Donbas (which was always actually just Russia wearing glasses and fake moustache) and Ukraine have been killing civilians since 2014. But even together they don't hold a candle to the tens of thousands that Russia has managed to kill in just 8 months.

 

[barbos]

Ukraine has 16 HIMARS launchers, and they started with just four. So maybe a hundred or so people have been trained to use it, to account for rotations. It's not impossible or even that hard to find a hundred people who can read English out of a country of 44 million people.

6 months! And you have to translate it to russian, forget about having a millitary dumbass having B2 level.

 

[Jayjay]

The rest of us are just helping out a bit.

That's cute. No, you were made to believe that crap. In reality what we have here is neocons waging a war on Russia. They don't care about ukrainian idiots. They pay them money to hurt Russia and die.

If Putin hadn't invaded, there wouldn't be a war. Is Putin one of these neocons?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Wow, if Barbos is coping this hard then things are going better in Ukraine than I thought.

Things are actually great. Even greater since infrastructure bombing campaign started.
It was a mistake to go easy in March.

And watch barbos travel down the road of Nazism. First, it was Ukrainian Nazis attacking themselves and making it look like it was the Russians... and then the civilian targets of the Russian military were actually military targets, so the Russians were just killing Nazis. And now barbos is quite at ease with starving and freezing the general population of what he calls Russians (because there is no Ukraine). So pretty much barbos is apparently gleeful over starving and freezing fellow Russians to death. Then those large executions, they weren't "true Russians". barbos is losing all sense of humanity.

Europe is freezing because they themselves blew up gas pipeline and sanctioned Russian gas before that. Do you understand that?

I'm talking about Ukraine, as it'd be the Ukrainian public infrastructure you were happy about getting bombed. That you were happy with the people you say are actually Russians starving and freezing to death, no heat, no electricity, no water.

 

[barbos]

Funny that you should mention it, because Serbia was one of the countries who voted for the UN resolution that condems the fake "referendums" in Ukraine.

It's funny both ways.
So, are you prepared to restore Serbian sovereignty over Kosovo?
And Mexico over Texas?

 

[barbos]

The rest of us are just helping out a bit.

That's cute. No, you were made to believe that crap. In reality what we have here is neocons waging a war on Russia. They don't care about ukrainian idiots. They pay them money to hurt Russia and die.

If Putin hadn't invaded, there wouldn't be a war. Is Putin one of these neocons?

NATO invaded first

 

[barbos]

Wow, if Barbos is coping this hard then things are going better in Ukraine than I thought.

Things are actually great. Even greater since infrastructure bombing campaign started.
It was a mistake to go easy in March.

And watch barbos travel down the road of Nazism. First, it was Ukrainian Nazis attacking themselves and making it look like it was the Russians... and then the civilian targets of the Russian military were actually military targets, so the Russians were just killing Nazis. And now barbos is quite at ease with starving and freezing the general population of what he calls Russians (because there is no Ukraine). So pretty much barbos is apparently gleeful over starving and freezing fellow Russians to death. Then those large executions, they weren't "true Russians". barbos is losing all sense of humanity.

Europe is freezing because they themselves blew up gas pipeline and sanctioned Russian gas before that. Do you understand that?

I'm talking about Ukraine, as it'd be the Ukrainian public infrastructure you were happy about getting bombed. That you were happy with the people you say are actually Russians starving and freezing to death, no heat, no electricity, no water.

I guess you disagree with "Russian economy should be and IS in tatters" strategy your government adopted long before this conflict.

Yes, I am fine with ukrainians freezing a little if it helps to regime change the nazis in Kiev.

 

[Jayjay]

I think the momentum may be lost at this point

There have never been any momentum. Russians had 2000 troops in Kharkov.
2000 of Eastern Ukraine volunteers. It had been pretty much abandoned at the time of that great offensive. Pretty much all 2000 left unharmed while about 2-3k of ukrainians soldiers were killed in that offensive.
Momentum is a creation of western propaganda which needed that to keep public support of Ukraine high.

So what? The reason why Russia only had a few thousand sub-standard troops was because it was too stretched and made poor strategic choices. Like I said, it doesn't matter that Russia fucked up, it's still a victory to take advantage of that fuck-up. And the "momentum" wasn't fiction. Anyone could confirm it from simple fact of Ukraine liberating town after town in a quick progression. Even Russian propagandists went completely nuts over the sudden loss of Kharkiv.

As for casualties, you know as little about them as I do.

 

[ZiprHead]

The rest of us are just helping out a bit.

That's cute. No, you were made to believe that crap. In reality what we have here is neocons waging a war on Russia. They don't care about ukrainian idiots. They pay them money to hurt Russia and die.

If Putin hadn't invaded, there wouldn't be a war. Is Putin one of these neocons?

NATO invaded first

When was this???

 

[barbos]

I think the momentum may be lost at this point

There have never been any momentum. Russians had 2000 troops in Kharkov.
2000 of Eastern Ukraine volunteers. It had been pretty much abandoned at the time of that great offensive. Pretty much all 2000 left unharmed while about 2-3k of ukrainians soldiers were killed in that offensive.
Momentum is a creation of western propaganda which needed that to keep public support of Ukraine high.

So what? The reason why Russia only had a few thousand sub-standard troops was because it was too stretched and made poor strategic choices. Like I said, it doesn't matter that Russia fucked up, it's still a victory to take advantage of that fuck-up. And the "momentum" wasn't fiction. Anyone could confirm it from simple fact of Ukraine liberating town after town in a quick progression. Even Russian propagandists went completely nuts over the sudden loss of Kharkiv.

As for casualties, you know as little about them as I do.

One more time. Russians left, ukrainians entered and got slaughtered by russian artillery. That's not an Ukrainian victory by any stretch of imagination.

 

[barbos]

The rest of us are just helping out a bit.

That's cute. No, you were made to believe that crap. In reality what we have here is neocons waging a war on Russia. They don't care about ukrainian idiots. They pay them money to hurt Russia and die.

If Putin hadn't invaded, there wouldn't be a war. Is Putin one of these neocons?

NATO invaded first

When was this???

2014

 

[Jayjay]

The investigation is still going on.

LOL, really? you believe that? Swedes said they want to have private investigation with results that would not be revealed. Let me translate it to finish - "There is no investigation because perpetrator wrote admission"

Or "sweden follows its own laws". In most countries, criminal investigations are confidential, because blabbing about ongoing investigation can compromise the results. In this case, a lot of the evidence is from security services which are known for being tight-lipped. But eventually, the findings will be published. We'll find out then whether there was an admission letter left at the scene of the crime or not.

 

[Jayjay]

What "evidence"?

The one which russian defence minister provided to his US/british/french counterparts.
There is indirect evidence of that. That is, western and especially ukrainian reaction suggest that.

If Shoigu's phone call is the only evidence there is, then it most certainly means there is no real evidence at all. Only thing this proves is that Russia wants to frame Ukraine.

 

[barbos]

Or "sweden follows its own laws".

As we say in Russia, dude, I was not born yesterday.

 

[barbos]

What "evidence"?

The one which russian defence minister provided to his US/british/french counterparts.
There is indirect evidence of that. That is, western and especially ukrainian reaction suggest that.

If Shoigu's phone call is the only evidence there is, then it most certainly means there is no real evidence at all. Only thing this proves is that Russia wants to frame Ukraine.

Reaction to the phone call is the evidence of evidence.