How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

But eventually, the findings will be published.

Nope. In fact, Germany already promised not to reveal it.

US/GB blew it up, period.

 

[Jayjay]

Jay, twitter is banned and it is utter garbage and fake anyway.
But statues? really? busses?
How can you even come to such conclusion?
What the fuck are you smoking?

The fact that twitter is banned in Russia doesn't surprise me, but I thought you'd use a VPN anyway. But let me summarise.

First link was to statement by occupation authority leader Stremousov admitting that the statue of general Alexander Suvorov was "evacuated". With a picture of the missing statue.

Second link was a video to city buses being driven to ferries in Kherson. With text saying that ambulances and fire trucks were already taken earlier.

The third link is a video of shipping cranes being taken from Kherson shipyard to the left bank of the river. Another video from locals.

 

[barbos]

Jay, twitter is banned and it is utter garbage and fake anyway.
But statues? really? busses?
How can you even come to such conclusion?
What the fuck are you smoking?

The fact that twitter is banned in Russia doesn't surprise me, but I thought you'd use a VPN anyway. But let me summarise.

First link was to statement by occupation authority leader Stremousov admitting that the statue of general Alexander Suvorov was "evacuated". With a picture of the missing statue.

Second link was a video to city buses being driven to ferries in Kherson. With text saying that ambulances and fire trucks were already taken earlier.

The third link is a video of shipping cranes being taken from Kherson shipyard to the left bank of the river. Another video from locals.

Damn you are as slow as Finn
I looked it up using VPN, and replied half an hour ago.
Ukraine has zero chance of capturing Kherson.

Evacuating people and stuff just makes dealing with ukrainian attempts to capture it less expensive. That's a prudent thing to do. Less damage and fewer dead civilians and far less stuff to move over river to support population.

 

[Elixir]

Reaction to the phone call is the evidence of evidence.

Sounds like Trumps saying "IT'S WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING! LOTS OF PEOPLE ARE SAYING IT!"
But there is no evidence there. Sorry, barbie. All you have is what you've been told by the propagandists. You'd be better off reading Twitter - and THAT is saying something.

 

[Jayjay]

OK, I looked this twitter crap up
Seriously? that;s your evidence of leaving?
Statue of a Suvorov being evacuated?
And busses?
Are you fucking kidding me?

Yes, I would evacuate Suvorov's statue too.
Not because I would be planning to leave but because nazi scam is shelling the city.

If they wanted to protect the statue, they could just take it to a bunker or something. And the fact that they're afraid of Ukraine getting into artillery range is itself already an admission that they're being pushed back (or "simply leaving" as you said about Kharkiv). And fire trucks and ambulances? If you were worried about enemy shelling, those are the things you wouldn't want to evacuate, you'd keep them in the city to help with fires and casualties of the shelling.

Ukraine isn't in normal artillery range, and it doesn't have the shells anyway to completely destroy a city like Russia does anyway. Ukraine can't waste shells on random statues.

 

[Jayjay]

Says who? Russian propaganda?

Say american military people.
And my own common sense confirms that.
Poles are manning it.

Which "american military people"? Source, please.

Does Poland even have HIMARS yet? According to Wikipedia they're listed under "future operators".

 

[barbos]

Which "american military people"? Source, please.

The ones which have alternative view and are not paid by neocon think tanks.
You should try sometimes getting out of state media bubble.

 

[barbos]

Does Poland even have HIMARS yet? According to Wikipedia they're listed under "future operators".

That means they are have been training for a while.

Trust me, that shit is complicated and people who are willing to operate it are not that bright to begin with.

 

[barbos]

If they wanted to protect the statue, they could just take it to a bunker or something.

Or do what they did.

And don't forget that according to US/Ukraine narrative crimean bridge was blown damaged by ..... Russia

 

[Jayjay]

Funny that you should mention it, because Serbia was one of the countries who voted for the UN resolution that condems the fake "referendums" in Ukraine.

It's funny both ways.
So, are you prepared to restore Serbian sovereignty over Kosovo?
And Mexico over Texas?

Kosovo is an independent state recognized by a hundred or so countries, and has been striving for independence for three decades. The occupied territories of Ukraine never asked to be part of Russia, they were invaded and annexed by force, and hardly anyone has recognized that annexation.

Mexico doens't count, because if we go back enough, no country would have their current borders. The idea isn't to go back to some ideal state of the past, the idea is that we stick with the current borders as much as possible, and recognize every country's sovereignty where ever they may have accidentally landed in the aftermath of WW2 and the Cold War. It may be arbitrary and imperfect, but it sure as hell doesn't justify Russia's imperialism.

 

[barbos]

Funny that you should mention it, because Serbia was one of the countries who voted for the UN resolution that condems the fake "referendums" in Ukraine.

It's funny both ways.
So, are you prepared to restore Serbian sovereignty over Kosovo?
And Mexico over Texas?

Kosovo is an independent state recognized by a hundred or so countries, and has been striving for independence for three decades. The occupied territories of Ukraine never asked to be part of Russia, they were invaded and annexed by force, and hardly anyone has recognized that annexation.

Actually they asked in 2014. Putin said no.
And you are doing piss poor job advocating for Kosovo independence.
Countries who recognize Kosovo are all occupied by US. Basically only one country recognized Kosovo - Neoconstan (US)

 

[Jayjay]

The rest of us are just helping out a bit.

That's cute. No, you were made to believe that crap. In reality what we have here is neocons waging a war on Russia. They don't care about ukrainian idiots. They pay them money to hurt Russia and die.

If Putin hadn't invaded, there wouldn't be a war. Is Putin one of these neocons?

NATO invaded first

Which Russian oblast or territory did NATO invade?

 

[barbos]

The rest of us are just helping out a bit.

That's cute. No, you were made to believe that crap. In reality what we have here is neocons waging a war on Russia. They don't care about ukrainian idiots. They pay them money to hurt Russia and die.

If Putin hadn't invaded, there wouldn't be a war. Is Putin one of these neocons?

NATO invaded first

Which Russian oblast or territory did NATO invade?

Crimea. And Eastern Ukraine as well.
And whole Ukraine was in Russian sphere of interests (security, economy, etc)
Russia can not allow anti-russian coups nearby.

 

[Jayjay]

What "evidence"?

The one which russian defence minister provided to his US/british/french counterparts.
There is indirect evidence of that. That is, western and especially ukrainian reaction suggest that.

If Shoigu's phone call is the only evidence there is, then it most certainly means there is no real evidence at all. Only thing this proves is that Russia wants to frame Ukraine.

Reaction to the phone call is the evidence of evidence.

The reaction is perfectly consistent with Russia threatening to use a dirty bomb and frame Ukraine for it. For the sake of the argument, imagine a world where Shoigu is just making stuff up and calling western governments that Ukraine is using a dirty bomb (the rest of us call this "the real world", but you can call it whatever you want), and where Ukraine has no such plans. How would you expect them to react?

 

[barbos]

What "evidence"?

The one which russian defence minister provided to his US/british/french counterparts.
There is indirect evidence of that. That is, western and especially ukrainian reaction suggest that.

If Shoigu's phone call is the only evidence there is, then it most certainly means there is no real evidence at all. Only thing this proves is that Russia wants to frame Ukraine.

Reaction to the phone call is the evidence of evidence.

The reaction is perfectly consistent with Russia threatening to use a dirty bomb and frame Ukraine for it. For the sake of the argument, imagine a world where Shoigu is just making stuff up and calling western governments that Ukraine is using a dirty bomb (the rest of us call this "the real world", but you can call it whatever you want), and where Ukraine has no such plans. How would you expect them to react?

Look, Ukrainian regime is the one losing and desperate, not Russia (CNN is lying to you)
Russia can dial up bombing tomorrow. Why would Russia use dirty bomb?

Same with Syria, chemical attacks happened when terrorists were losing.
Use your brain sometimes. BBC staged chemical attack footage and then banned RT when they talked about it.

 

[Jayjay]

But eventually, the findings will be published.

Nope. In fact, Germany already promised not to reveal it.

US/GB blew it up, period.

Germany hasn't said they have any conclusion yet. And the Swedish investigation might very well have the same conclusion. But that doesn't mean Russia didn't do it. Or that Americans did it.

The prime suspect is Russia, but US and GB are way down in the list. The Americans can't keep anything a secret for long, and they know it, so it would be idiotic for Biden to risk ruining relations to its European allies over a pipeline that wasn't being used anyway. UK has its own internal problems and couldn't be bothered, and they don't have much stake in LNG business anyway. If it was someone other than Russia, Ukraine is probably the second most likely suspect.

 

[barbos]

But eventually, the findings will be published.

Nope. In fact, Germany already promised not to reveal it.

US/GB blew it up, period.

Germany hasn't said they have any conclusion yet. And the Swedish investigation might very well have the same conclusion. But that doesn't mean Russia didn't do it. Or that Americans did it.

The prime suspect is Russia, but US and GB are way down in the list. The Americans can't keep anything a secret for long, and they know it, so it would be idiotic for Biden to risk ruining relations to its European allies over a pipeline that wasn't being used anyway. UK has its own internal problems and couldn't be bothered, and they don't have much stake in LNG business anyway. If it was someone other than Russia, Ukraine is probably the second most likely suspect.

You really think that Russia would do it? what for?
Blow their bridge too? Really?

 

[Jayjay]

Which "american military people"? Source, please.

The ones which have alternative view and are not paid by neocon think tanks.
You should try sometimes getting out of state media bubble.

So you got nothing, as usual?

Russian shills peddling bullshit you saw on some Russian propaganda channel.

 

[barbos]

The prime suspect is Russia, but US and GB are way down in the list.

Wow, just wow.
What's next. American farts smell like flowers?
Pinochet was a great guy and CIA did not do shit in Central America?
Vietnam War was 100% justified?
Iraq WMDs were found?

 

[barbos]

Which "american military people"? Source, please.

The ones which have alternative view and are not paid by neocon think tanks.
You should try sometimes getting out of state media bubble.

So you got nothing, as usual?

Russian shills peddling bullshit you saw on some Russian propaganda channel.

Are you OK? You don't sound like yourself, am I getting to you?
I said american military. The fact that you have not heard about it tells me that you choose to consume CNN shit exclusively.