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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

And if Russia is losing, then by the same logic, it's not far fetched that Russia might use chemical weapons. You're basically arguing against yourself here, if you think that the chemical attacks in Syria were "staged" by the losing side.
Except Russia is not losing. And yes, BBC staged chemical attack footage and banned RT for reporting it
The same way they stage heroic reporting from Ukraine.

You are the bad guys, have been for a very long time. It just finally blows in your face.
Russia is the poor victim in all of this.

Which makes your gleeful reaction to the targeting of public infrastructure to kill civilian access to electricity, water, and gas all the more suspicious as to just how accurate the top statement is.

Seems about as legit as saying the Russian military hasn't taken over yet because they just want to take their time. Sounds like a guy who can't get it up is saying he is just 'taking it slow'.
 
Those who hate Russia the most are the ones who embody everything they claim to hate about it: they’re all pro-war, pro-censorship, pro-propaganda, pro-trolling operations, and support Ukraine in banning political parties and opposition media. They are what they claim to hate. Meanwhile those of us who oppose those things are told to ‘move to Russia,’ even though we’re the ones advocating the supposed ‘western values’ they claim to support while they’re doing everything they can to undermine them. They should move to Russia. … Western propaganda means people always oppose the last war but not the current war. The US provoking and sustaining its Ukraine proxy war is no more ethical than its invading of Iraq; it just looks that way due to propaganda. Ukraine isn’t the good war, it’s just the current war.

Always Opposing The Last War But Not The Current One: Notes From The Edge Of The Narrative Matrix

My personal suspicion is that Democrats have been mad at Russia ever since they abandoned communism in 1991.

From the article: The US provoking and sustaining its Ukraine proxy war is no more ethical than its invading of Iraq; it just looks that way due to propaganda. Ukraine isn’t the good war, it’s just the current war. That's just bizzaro.
Yeah... some people are shitty at analogies. The notable difference between Ukraine and Iraq... Ukraine ASKED for us to help!
Good point. Yes, terrible analogy. Secondly, don't know if Jason realizes this or not, but Bush and company are republicans! Sure there are some dems that are neo-cons, but not many.
 
I read that trashy blog post. It is just the same drivel barbos has been peddling. Bullshit propaganda trying to hide by objecting to other propaganda. The author of that trash blog links to another post from her blog which attempts to shift blame for the war from Russia's bloody hands to the West. And it was of little surprise to me that she seems to be using the exact same line of faulty excuses barbos has tried feeding us here. Experts like Mearsheimer foresaw this conflict, so it must have been avoidable, and the West didn't avoid it, so it must be the West's fault. But let me explain something to you. The reason experts on politics in Russia foresaw this, but most other political experts didn't was because folks like Mearsheimer had enough experience to know that Russia isn't like other countries. Its politics and culture are sick. Its leadership is infected with delusional paranoia, corruption, and imperialist ambition. ("19th century thinkers")

Russia is a rabbid dog who took a bite out of Ukraine because it saw the West getting too close. Should we then blame the West for getting too close? No. No other country save perhaps N. Korea would act the way Russia did because most other countries aren't lead by paranoid psychopaths with delusions of grandeur. (Or are they?... hmm... well, anyway). The provocations that Russia and her stooges claim as smoking guns to excuse their bad begavior (Victoria Nuland passing out cookies at the Euromaidan protest, neighboring countries freely and voluntarily entering into a defensive alliance, and Nazi sympathizers...existing(?) ) are nothigburgers in all the sane regions of the planet.

The dog bit because it is sick, not because it was provoked. If this dog didn't have nukes, I would recommend that it be put down.

My personal suspicion is that Democrats have been mad at Russia ever since they abandoned communism in 1991.
This comment is so out of touch, it makes me sad.

When he was running against Obama, Mitt Romney was ridiculed by most Dems (and more than a few Republicans) for insisting that Russia was "our Number one political foe.". Surely China was the greater threat? Not that decaying European capitalist democracy humbled by the fall of communism and struggling with its own human rights and corruption issues? No. It turns out Mitt was right. The Dems were wrong. Russia is far more dangerous than we thought.
 
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Those who hate Russia the most are the ones who embody everything they claim to hate about it: they’re all pro-war, pro-censorship, pro-propaganda, pro-trolling operations, and support Ukraine in banning political parties and opposition media. They are what they claim to hate. Meanwhile those of us who oppose those things are told to ‘move to Russia,’ even though we’re the ones advocating the supposed ‘western values’ they claim to support while they’re doing everything they can to undermine them. They should move to Russia. … Western propaganda means people always oppose the last war but not the current war. The US provoking and sustaining its Ukraine proxy war is no more ethical than its invading of Iraq; it just looks that way due to propaganda. Ukraine isn’t the good war, it’s just the current war.

Always Opposing The Last War But Not The Current One: Notes From The Edge Of The Narrative Matrix

My personal suspicion is that Democrats have been mad at Russia ever since they abandoned communism in 1991.

From the article: The US provoking and sustaining its Ukraine proxy war is no more ethical than its invading of Iraq; it just looks that way due to propaganda. Ukraine isn’t the good war, it’s just the current war. That's just bizzaro.
Yeah... some people are shitty at analogies. The notable difference between Ukraine and Iraq... Ukraine ASKED for us to help!
Good point. Yes, terrible analogy. Secondly, don't know if Jason realizes this or not, but Bush and company are republicans! Sure there are some dems that are neo-cons, but not many.
Naw, that is just one of Jason's trademarked zingers... "haw... I called Democrats Neocons... I totally pwned them"... "now where is that KKK reference I had laying around on my desk".
 
I read that trashy blog post. It is just the same drivel barbos has been peddling. Bullshit propaganda trying to hide by objecting to other propaganda. The author of that trash blog links to another post from her blog which attempts to shift blame for the war from Russia's bloody hands to the West. And it was of little surprise to me that she seems to be using the exact same line of faulty excuses barbos has tried feeding us here. Experts like Mearsheimer foresaw this conflict, so it must have been avoidable, and the West didn't avoid it, so it must be the West's fault. But let me explain something to you. The reason experts on politics in Russia foresaw this, but most other political experts didn't was because folks like Mearsheimer had enough experience to know that Russia isn't like other countries. Its politics and culture are sick. Its leadership is infected with delusional paranoia, corruption, and imperialist ambition. ("19th century thinkers")

Russia is a rabbid dog who took a bite out of Ukraine because it saw the West getting too close. Should we then blame the West for getting too close? No. No other country save perhaps N. Korea would act the way Russia did because most other countries aren't lead by paranoid psychopaths with delusions of grandeur. (Or are they?... hmm... well, anyway). The provocations that Russia and her stooges claim as smoking guns to excuse their bad begavior (Victoria Nuland passing out cookies at the Euromaidan protest, neighboring countries freely and voluntarily entering into a defensive alliance, and Nazi sympathizers...existing(?) ) are nothigburgers in all the sane regions of the planet.

The dog bit because it is sick, not because it was provoked. If this dog didn't have nukes, I would recommend that it be put down.

My personal suspicion is that Democrats have been mad at Russia ever since they abandoned communism in 1991.
This comment is so out of touch, it makes me sad.

When he was running against Obama, Mitt Romney was ridiculed by most Dems (and more than a few Republicans) for insisting that Russia was "our Number one political foe.". Surely China was the greater threat? Not that decaying European capitalist democracy humbled by the fall of communism and struggling with its own human rights and corruption issues? No. It turns out Mitt was right. The Dems were wrong. Russia is far more dangerous than we thought.
A great post. But it isn't Russia. It isn't the hundreds of thousands who fled the war and Putin's mobilization. It is Putin's gangster regime and their control of the entire country. They fear democracy and accountability far more than they want Ukraine as part of some great long lost empire of glory. They want to keep their gains and Ukraine is dangerously close to everything that matters to Putin and his gangsters. It may be a minor distinction but it is an important one because it drives everything.
 
Those who hate Russia the most are the ones who embody everything they claim to hate about it: they’re all pro-war, pro-censorship, pro-propaganda, pro-trolling operations, and support Ukraine in banning political parties and opposition media. They are what they claim to hate. Meanwhile those of us who oppose those things are told to ‘move to Russia,’ even though we’re the ones advocating the supposed ‘western values’ they claim to support while they’re doing everything they can to undermine them. They should move to Russia. … Western propaganda means people always oppose the last war but not the current war. The US provoking and sustaining its Ukraine proxy war is no more ethical than its invading of Iraq; it just looks that way due to propaganda. Ukraine isn’t the good war, it’s just the current war.

Always Opposing The Last War But Not The Current One: Notes From The Edge Of The Narrative Matrix

My personal suspicion is that Democrats have been mad at Russia ever since they abandoned communism in 1991.

From the article: The US provoking and sustaining its Ukraine proxy war is no more ethical than its invading of Iraq; it just looks that way due to propaganda. Ukraine isn’t the good war, it’s just the current war. That's just bizzaro. We trying to help a country defend itself. Here's the big difference, if Ukraine loses, Russia will take their land and kill most of their government and people that supported Ukraine. Genocide and torture. If Ukraine wins, they retain their land, they rule themselves, and Russian troops return home. Do you see the fucking difference? If you support Russia, you are an imperialist. Pure and simple. Finally, Ukraine and Iraq invasions are totally different. But I'll bite. How about this: the US shouldn't have invaded Iraq and Russia shouldn't have invaded Ukraine. No more fucking invasions.
I don't see such a big difference. In Iraq, if US didn't invade, Saddam would have continued to stay in power and kill his own people via genocide and torture (much like Russia will if it wins). With US help, Iraqi people got to rule themselves. It's not the war that the US fucked up, it was the peace. And while that's still in the future for Ukraine, it may very well be fucked up there too.

Then again, I think Iraq is still better off than it would be with Saddam or his sons in power. In that sense it was also a "good war".

EDIT: And upon reading some more comments, I agree that the analogy between Iraq and Ukraine does fail in many regards. Wars are never "good", but sometimes they're necessary. Iraq may not have been, Ukraine looks very much so.
 
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The fact that you keep bringing up this one airborne attack in Donetsk that happens 8 years ago shows that it doesn't happen often
It was happening pretty much daily for 8 years - artillery.
Artillery fire on both sides. Which had subsided a lot.
Donetsk was under "russian" control.
And generally speaking, ukro-regime was terrorizing people whereas "pro-russian" separatists were "terrorizing" nazis which were shelling Donetsk.
You are supporting terrorists and nazis.
Can you be more specific? What do you consider to be the traits of Nazis? Is it antisemitism? Is that what they are? Is it the invasion of other countries? Like say, if some country, for example, had previously pledged to respect the borders of a nation and then just maybe a newer President published an article saying that country hasn’t historically existed and launched an attack aimed at capturing the capital?

what about someone like this dude with SS and other nazi tattoos? Is this guy a Nazi? Just curious. Cause without definitions, we’re just flying blind.

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Those who hate Russia the most are the ones who embody everything they claim to hate about it: they’re all pro-war, pro-censorship, pro-propaganda, pro-trolling operations, and support Ukraine in banning political parties and opposition media. They are what they claim to hate. Meanwhile those of us who oppose those things are told to ‘move to Russia,’ even though we’re the ones advocating the supposed ‘western values’ they claim to support while they’re doing everything they can to undermine them. They should move to Russia. … Western propaganda means people always oppose the last war but not the current war. The US provoking and sustaining its Ukraine proxy war is no more ethical than its invading of Iraq; it just looks that way due to propaganda. Ukraine isn’t the good war, it’s just the current war.

Always Opposing The Last War But Not The Current One: Notes From The Edge Of The Narrative Matrix

My personal suspicion is that Democrats have been mad at Russia ever since they abandoned communism in 1991.
Look everyone! A libertarian high fiving a twice convicted pedophile on how awesome Putin is!



Yeah it's a real mystery why nobody takes libertarians seriously.
 
Those who hate Russia the most are the ones who embody everything they claim to hate about it: they’re all pro-war, pro-censorship, pro-propaganda, pro-trolling operations, and support Ukraine in banning political parties and opposition media. They are what they claim to hate. Meanwhile those of us who oppose those things are told to ‘move to Russia,’ even though we’re the ones advocating the supposed ‘western values’ they claim to support while they’re doing everything they can to undermine them. They should move to Russia. … Western propaganda means people always oppose the last war but not the current war. The US provoking and sustaining its Ukraine proxy war is no more ethical than its invading of Iraq; it just looks that way due to propaganda. Ukraine isn’t the good war, it’s just the current war.

Always Opposing The Last War But Not The Current One: Notes From The Edge Of The Narrative Matrix

My personal suspicion is that Democrats have been mad at Russia ever since they abandoned communism in 1991.
What in the fuck are you on about? Liberals en masse were against invading Iraq in 2003. We were called anti-patriotic for such a position.
 
Those who hate Russia the most are the ones who embody everything they claim to hate about it: they’re all pro-war, pro-censorship, pro-propaganda, pro-trolling operations, and support Ukraine in banning political parties and opposition media. They are what they claim to hate. Meanwhile those of us who oppose those things are told to ‘move to Russia,’ even though we’re the ones advocating the supposed ‘western values’ they claim to support while they’re doing everything they can to undermine them. They should move to Russia. … Western propaganda means people always oppose the last war but not the current war. The US provoking and sustaining its Ukraine proxy war is no more ethical than its invading of Iraq; it just looks that way due to propaganda. Ukraine isn’t the good war, it’s just the current war.

Always Opposing The Last War But Not The Current One: Notes From The Edge Of The Narrative Matrix

My personal suspicion is that Democrats have been mad at Russia ever since they abandoned communism in 1991.
What in the fuck are you on about? Liberals en masse were against invading Iraq in 2003. We were called anti-patriotic for such a position.
Where did the anti-war left go in 2009? They haven't been seen since.
 
It is accurate. Look and see how many people have popped in just to accuse me of supporting Putin, Trump, Russia, etc, after I posted that link to that article.

Count them. Go on.
Who's saying they're wrong?
I am saying they are wrong, and I am saying that it is an obvious Ad Hominem argument that a person would have to be sub-moronic to fall for.
 
Again, I am not familiar with this particular system but I’m confident in saying they do not fail. There is no test equipment. Not so much as a multimeter. The missiles are op tested before they leave the depot. There is no field maintenance. Not like it would ever be needed. They do not fail. They use the most robust components built to US military specs. They are designed to be operated by ham-handed guys with high school educations.
No one is tweaking potentiometers and staring at o-scopes.
I reckon they would be very robust and reliable. Almost a true fire and forget.
But if one did fail it would be spectacular.
 
latest estimates of ukrainian losses surfaces and they are horrendous.
I think you have been fed the figures for dead Putinistas, barbie.
Secondly these drones are most certainly made in Russia, even though it's iranian design.

So Russians are so stupid that they make drones, send them to Iran then have to go pick them up? Sounds stupid enough for the Putler military...

From August, widely reported and supported with first hand accounts:

Russian cargo planes have quietly picked up the first of scores of Iranian-made combat drones for use against Ukraine, in a move that underscores deepening ties between Moscow and Tehran while also highlighting Russia’s struggles to supply its overstretched military.

Russia didn't even bother to deny it at the time. Now, months later it has become a(nother) point of embarrassment for the hapless corrupt war criminals of the Russian military, forcing shills like barbie to make up more crap to spew in places like this.
How pathetic is it to be a nation state and need Iran to arm you!? Makes Russia look like Hezbollah.

Many high tech components in Russian military equiptment was being imported from France. Russia did not have the capability to make their own. Now cut off from this source, Russia replacement of destroyed miltary equiptment will be hard.
 
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