How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

Expect barbos to start talking about nazis in Poland soon;

I already talked about that. Yes, nazis.
Current polish regime is extra "polish" and has an extra axe to grind when it comes to Russia.
To be fair, they hate Germany too. They think Poland should be uber alles in EU and Germany owes Poland gazilions of dollars in reparations.

Please tell me when Polish Nazi zombies are a thing.

Also congrats on spelling Zelensky's name properly for the first time.

I did not mention Elensky in that post. I know Z is banned in Australia.

 

[barbos]

Expect barbos to start talking about nazis in Poland soon;

I already talked about that. Yes, nazis.
Current polish regime is extra "polish" and has an extra axe to grind when it comes to Russia.

Funny how everyone who's had to live under Russian rule almost categorically have "an axe to grind" with it.

That's not the axe I am talking about. Current regime is controlled by the party head of which is a twin brother of an idiot who died in plane crash along with his millitary entourage in Russia. They claim Russia is responsible for the crash (they are not, idiots on the plane are)

And yeah, dreams of reviving polish Reich are popular in Poland.
So, start learning polish and convert to catolicism, don't be a Bandera.

 

[barbos]

And what's up with Hersh claiming Biden the President planning to blow up NordStream BEFORE Putin's "invasion" into Ukraine.

 

[laughing dog]

Putin apologists are delusional. The mighty Russian military has had their ass handed to them even though the West has held back giving them the armaments that would virtually decimate the Russian forces. The only thing keeping this from a rout of the Russian military is the fear of nuclear retaliation by Russia.

 

[Copernicus]

Expect barbos to start talking about nazis in Poland soon;

I already talked about that. Yes, nazis.
Current polish regime is extra "polish" and has an extra axe to grind when it comes to Russia.
To be fair, they hate Germany too. They think Poland should be uber alles in EU and Germany owes Poland gazilions of dollars in reparations.

Please tell me when Polish Nazi zombies are a thing.

Also congrats on spelling Zelensky's name properly for the first time.

I did not mention Elensky in that post. I know Z is banned in Australia.

Barbos has not explained his deliberate misspelling of Zelensky's name as "Elensky", but he comes close to it here. The practice comes from the fact that some countries have banned, or proposed to ban, the use of the symbols "V" and "Z" because of their use by Russians to symbolize their ultranationalist invasion of Ukraine. Recall that they often paint these symbols on tanks and use them in rallies. So Russian propagandists have tried to mock the practice by removing the "V" and "Z" letters in Vladimir (Volodymyr) Zelensky's name. Hence, the repetitive misspelling "Elensky" by barbos. Here is a reference to a fake news cover for Time Magazine that spells his name "Ladimir Elensky". There is no information about where the fake cover image came from, but, of course, we all know where it came from. And it should be no mystery why our pro-Putin sycophant would continue the lame attempt at mockery here.

Ladimir Elensky? Fake Time Magazine Cover Omits 'Z' and 'V'​

 

[Patooka]

Expect barbos to start talking about nazis in Poland soon;

I already talked about that. Yes, nazis.
Current polish regime is extra "polish" and has an extra axe to grind when it comes to Russia.
To be fair, they hate Germany too. They think Poland should be uber alles in EU and Germany owes Poland gazilions of dollars in reparations.

Please tell me when Polish Nazi zombies are a thing.

Also congrats on spelling Zelensky's name properly for the first time.

I did not mention Elensky in that post. I know Z is banned in Australia.

Oh, honey. I know that. You spelled Zelensky properly in --> this <-- post.

Israel PM (former) about Zelensky and Bolton prank

By the way, the time is up for you to edit it, so it is there for all to see. You called Zelensky with a Z. Someone is going to be very disappointed. I sincerely hope it isn't a "window that is open" intimacy offense and you just get a slap on the wrist. You don't deserve to be introduced to deceleration trauma.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The only thing keeping this from a rout of the Russian military is the unfounded fear of nuclear retaliation by Putin.

I think that is more accurate. Unfortunately we're still living in the past in terms of appreciating the decline of Russia's present military.

 

[Harry Bosch]

And what's up with Hersh claiming Biden the President planning to blow up NordStream BEFORE Putin's "invasion" into Ukraine.

Who knows. But Americans had been warning Germany for years to not trust Russian gas. Germany falsely believed that economic ties and trade with Russia would tame the Russian desire to expand and plunder. Sad. If Ukranians have the gumption to fight for democracy with their lives; the least the rest of the world should do is cut off Russia financially from the world as much as possible.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It’s measured by 80% Russian casualty rates.

120% according to Zele the Clown

What does it say when Putin hasn't even defeated that Clown yet. Been a year, and all the Russians have managed to do was kill a bunch of Ukrainians, get a bunch of Russians killed, disrupt public infrastructure, got a flag ship sunk, and litter Ukraine with abandoned vehicles. One year to manage only that. And Zelensky is the clown.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

The Clown embaresses the Fool.

 

[SLD]

The only thing keeping this from a rout of the Russian military is the unfounded fear of nuclear retaliation by Putin.

I think that is more accurate. Unfortunately we're still living in the past in terms of appreciating the decline of Russia's present military.

I agree. It’s unfounded. That’s why I argued earlier that we should give Ukraine almost everything that they need, including the ability to strike deep into Russia. Hit their logistical bases deep in Russia. Destroy their oil export capacities as far away as Siberia. Make the Russians feel the real pain of war. They wanted this war. They should get it. And when Putin protests, tell him what FDR said to Hitler. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

 

[Copernicus]

The only thing keeping this from a rout of the Russian military is the unfounded fear of nuclear retaliation by Putin.

I think that is more accurate. Unfortunately we're still living in the past in terms of appreciating the decline of Russia's present military.

I agree. It’s unfounded. That’s why I argued earlier that we should give Ukraine almost everything that they need, including the ability to strike deep into Russia. Hit their logistical bases deep in Russia. Destroy their oil export capacities as far away as Siberia. Make the Russians feel the real pain of war. They wanted this war. They should get it. And when Putin protests, tell him what FDR said to Hitler. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

I don't think it's accurate to say that Russians wanted this war. Putin wanted it. What ordinary Russians want is the same thing that ordinary people want in all countries--peace and stability. Putin has taken that away from them.

ETA: As for the nuclear threat, I don't think that what is happening to Russia's military invasion of Ukraine is a reliable indicator of how well their ICBMs and nuclear-capable submarines would work in a nuclear exchange with the US and Europe. China would almost certainly be drawn into that exchange. That would likely be the end of civilization as we know it.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Reports are now coming in. Russia is beginning its long awaited full scale attacks on Ukraine. Claims are Russia has 1800 tanks assembled for this effort. Plus 300,000 conscripts. Russia has to beat the spring Rasputinita, mud season. Evil is afoot.

 

[Copernicus]

Germany falsely believed that economic ties and trade with Russia would tame the Russian desire to expand and plunder.

Germany falsely believed that wind and solar could power a modern industrial nation, and didn't realise that in fact they would just render that nation completely dependent upon large amounts of gas, rather than (or in practice, as well as) coal.

Trade with Russia became unavoidable once Energiewende was implemented; The idea that "ties and trade with Russia would tame the Russian desire to expand and plunder" was more a rationalisation of an unavoidable reality than an actual policy.

Believing things that are not true has consequences. The Russian invasion of Ukraine is, to a non-trivial extent, a consequence of the German belief that intermittent renewable energy can power a modern society.

I think that the debate over Germany's energy crisis is interesting and energy policy is intertwined with the back and forth on sanctions. However, I think it is an exaggeration to blame Putin's invasion of Ukraine on Germany's energy policy in any way. That invasion would have taken place even if Germany had never embarked on an Energiewende policy that led to its abandonment of nuclear power. Ukraine's Maidan revolution and move away from Russian domination is what triggered the invasion, and Putin's desire to destroy Ukraine was not going to be deterred by his inability to blackmail Germany.

 

[SLD]

Reports are now coming in. Russia is beginning its long awaited full scale attacks on Ukraine. Claims are Russia has 1800 tanks assembled for this effort. Plus 300,000 conscripts. Russia has to beat the spring Rasputinita, mud season. Evil is afoot.

With what? CNN talked to one analyst that Russia has lost up to a half of their operational tanks so far. Are they going to waste the rest of them? They may have 4,000 more in storage, but good fucking luck getting them going after years of neglect, and no maintenance. All in all they’ve lost probably up to 2,000 tanks and over 9,000 total vehicles or other equipment.

Russia may have lost up to half of its operational tank fleet in Ukraine, monitoring group says | CNN

Russia has potentially lost up to half of all its operational tank fleet since the start of the Ukraine war, according to information collected by a monitoring group, as its military struggles to meet the goals of Vladimir Putin's invasion.

www.cnn.com

We do need to be shipping Ukraine a Burt load of ammo and antitank weapons asap to blunt this offensive. Then when they get their modern tanks they can launch a strong counter-offensive and retake Luhansk.

 

[bilby]

Germany falsely believed that economic ties and trade with Russia would tame the Russian desire to expand and plunder.

Germany falsely believed that wind and solar could power a modern industrial nation, and didn't realise that in fact they would just render that nation completely dependent upon large amounts of gas, rather than (or in practice, as well as) coal.

Trade with Russia became unavoidable once Energiewende was implemented; The idea that "ties and trade with Russia would tame the Russian desire to expand and plunder" was more a rationalisation of an unavoidable reality than an actual policy.

Believing things that are not true has consequences. The Russian invasion of Ukraine is, to a non-trivial extent, a consequence of the German belief that intermittent renewable energy can power a modern society.

I think that the debate over Germany's energy crisis is interesting and energy policy is intertwined with the back and forth on sanctions. However, I think it is an exaggeration to blame Putin's invasion of Ukraine on Germany's energy policy in any way. That invasion would have taken place even if Germany had never embarked on an Energiewende policy that led to its abandonment of nuclear power. Ukraine's Maidan revolution and move away from Russian domination is what triggered the invasion, and Putin's desire to destroy Ukraine was not going to be deterred by his inability to blackmail Germany.

Perhaps not, but I suspect that it would have given him pause.

Of course, we will never know.

But there's no doubt in my mind that Germany would have been less obstructive towards efforts to assist Ukraine (eg by allowing reexports of German made armoured vehicles) had they not been so beholden to Russian gas. They dragged their feet for long enough to secure other sources of gas, and to ramp up domestic coal production, because they'd painted themselves into a corner and were terrified that winter power outages would cause major disruption in Germany if they took a hard line against Russia early on (when it could have made a very significant difference).

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Progress is not linear. Not all terrain is equal. The loss of Bakhmut to Ukraine is worse than just 1% distance to Kyiv. It's also an important hub and allows Russia to mount other attacks in the future. And the fact that Ukraine was able to hold on to it for so long means it's very defensible: hard to capture means that it'll be just as hard for Ukraine to recapture, which I doubt they can ever do.

Bakhmut's strategic meaning is that if Russia can additionally take Lyman and Izyum back in the north, then they can take more or less take rest of Donbas, which is one of Putin's stated goals of the war. Ukraine has also depleted a lot of its own manpower defending Soledar and Bakhmut; manpower that would be needed elsewhere when Russia starts its main push.

Except Ukraine pretty much hasn't been trying to capture cities. Rather, they surround them and the Russians retreat to avoid being cut off.

 

[IIDB Staff]

Discussion on renewable energy split to this thread

 

[laughing dog]

Reports are now coming in. Russia is beginning its long awaited full scale attacks on Ukraine. Claims are Russia has 1800 tanks assembled for this effort. Plus 300,000 conscripts. Russia has to beat the spring Rasputinita, mud season. Evil is afoot.

Apparently the Russian military didn't get barbos' memo about the uselessness of tanks.

 

[barbos]

Who knows. But Americans had been warning Germany for years to not trust Russian gas. Germany falsely believed that economic ties and trade with Russia would tame the Russian desire to expand and plunder. Sad. If Ukranians have the gumption to fight for democracy with their lives; the least the rest of the world should do is cut off Russia financially from the world as much as possible.

Everyone knows that US conducted an act of War and NATO is a criminal organization aimed at expansion and destruction by any means possible.