How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[ZiprHead]

before you start with his obama incident, I am well aware of it. So "He is an idiot" defense is not really a defense.

All I want is to show you that nobody with a half a brain believes your mainstream media narrative.
That narrative designed for that lower half of the IQ spectrum, while the other says to themselves "I am not touching this shit"
So guess which half of the spectrum are you?

The title of that video is a blatant lie. McCHrystal did no such thing.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So popular cluster munitions are now being provided by the US. Damn cluster munitions.

The Russians have been using cluster munitions on civilian areas from the start. But they work quite well against an enemy dug in in trenches as the Russians are.

"They did it too" is not a good reason for the US to engage in something the US considers to be a war crime.

1) Ukraine is dropping on friendly territory--they have good reason to keep very good track of where they drop.

2) Since Russia has been dropping them anyway the landscape is already contaminated. Adding possible Ukranian contamination doesn't really make much difference--cleaning the land is a matter of area far more than a matter of the number of things that go boom.

Is this supposed to make it good?

Not a good, but not a bad, either.

It's like taking a crap in an outhouse.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

About Cluster bombs criminal regime in Washington sending to Ukraine.
I think Biden just hates Ukrainians. Cluster bombs are useless against defending forces in trenches.
But they ARE useful against light infantry attacks in the open field which is what ....... Ukraine does in their "counteroffensive"
Now that Russia can use cluster ammo .......

Cluster bombs do work against trenches because some of the bomblets fall in. VT artillery is fine against infantry that's not dug in, no point in risking aircraft to drop a cluster bomb.

 

[barbos]

 

[barbos]

The title of that video is a blatant lie

Show me one video which does not lie in the title.
He implied that US did it. Implication and claming is the same thing as far as the truth concerned.
By the way, Corrupt and criminal Biden Administration essentially admitted that US did it when they said "Russia did not do it"
By implication it means US did it. Trying to blame Ukraine is laughable.

 

[ZiprHead]

Show me one video which does not lie in the title.

 

[ZiprHead]

The title of that video is a blatant lie

Show me one video which does not lie in the title.
He implied that US did it. Implication and claming is the same thing as far as the truth concerned.

No, he didn't. He said the US benefitted from it.

By the way, Corrupt and criminal Biden Administration essentially admitted that US did it when they said "Russia did not do it"
By implication it means US did it. Trying to blame Ukraine is laughable.

Not keeping up with the news, are you?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

So popular cluster munitions are now being provided by the US. Damn cluster munitions.

The Russians have been using cluster munitions on civilian areas from the start. But they work quite well against an enemy dug in in trenches as the Russians are.

"They did it too" is not a good reason for the US to engage in something the US considers to be a war crime.

1) Ukraine is dropping on friendly territory--they have good reason to keep very good track of where they drop.

2) Since Russia has been dropping them anyway the landscape is already contaminated. Adding possible Ukranian contamination doesn't really make much difference--cleaning the land is a matter of area far more than a matter of the number of things that go boom.

Is this supposed to make it good?

Not a good, but not a bad, either.

It's like taking a crap in an outhouse.

I once read a news story about a woman who had been raped. When she was calling out for help afterwards, the first person who found her also raped her. I think it's more like that.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Who crossed the border in 2014? Russia.

Incorrect, US crossed it.

Mind explaining how? What US force crossed what border?

Because the only force I'm aware of crossing any border in 2014 was Russia's fake separatists.

 

[Jayjay]

So popular cluster munitions are now being provided by the US. Damn cluster munitions.

The Russians have been using cluster munitions on civilian areas from the start. But they work quite well against an enemy dug in in trenches as the Russians are.

Not only that, they have been using it on their own civilian areas.

Russia has certainly used cluster munitions in Ukrainian civilian areas, like the Kramatorsk train station attack that killed over 50 people (and then tried to pretend they didn't do it). There are also several other confirmed cases of Russia using cluster bombs in Kharkiv and Izyum.

Cluster Munition Use in Russia-Ukraine War

Since Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022, Russian armed forces have used cluster munitions in attacks that have caused hundreds of civilian casualties and damaged civilian objects, including homes, hospitals, and schools. The Ukrainian military has not denied credible...

www.hrw.org

They also bombed their own Nuclear Plant they occupied.

I actually tried to find if there was any evidence to support that Ukraine shelled the ZNPP. Only confirmation was that Ukraine used suicide drones to target the equipment that Russia was holing at the plant, but nothing about shelling... except of course Russia claiming that Ukraine shelled it. And of course, there's this video where Russian expert tries to explain to IAEA inspectors that artillery shells take 180 degree turns before hitting the ground:



So we got 0 evidence for Ukraine shelling the plant, and at least 1 shell that came from Russian-occupied territory. If you have any proof that Ukraine did more shelling, I'm listening. Russia did have military vehicles at the premises and was using the plant as a cover to shell Nikopol and other targets, so it's not entirely infeasible that Ukraine could have fired back. I just haven't seen any evidence for it.

Not to mention they sabotaged their own gas pipeline.

Only ships confirmed to be in the area capable of laying the bombs prior to the explosions were Russian. So while not completely confirmed, they're the main suspects.

In CNN we trust!

Bashing CNN is like bullying the disabled kid at the yard. But it's even worse when you're doing it while regurgitating Russian state media propaganda without even a hint of source criticism.

 

[Jayjay]

About Cluster bombs criminal regime in Washington sending to Ukraine.
I think Biden just hates Ukrainians. Cluster bombs are useless against defending forces in trenches.
But they ARE useful against light infantry attacks in the open field which is what ....... Ukraine does in their "counteroffensive"
Now that Russia can use cluster ammo .......

Russia has been using cluster ammo since the beginning, so there's no difference. It's silly to think that Russia has been holding back because of some humanitarian concern and was waiting for "permission" from Biden.

You seem to be right though that cluster munitions don't really seem to be so great at clearing trenches, but they are useful against infantry in open fields. The first footage of Ukraine using American cluster bombs was exactly that:

 

[Jayjay]

Obama recognized Crimea as part of Russia.

Wrong.

Obama refuses to recognize a Russian Crimea. But is secession illegal?

Crimea is set to hold a referendum on March 16 on whether to secede from Ukraine and join Russia. President Obama says it is illegal according to international law. Western scholars agree.

www.csmonitor.com

LOL, your link kinda proves I am right and you are wrong.
By the way, about Crimea. Apparently US "Democracy", in their preparation for that 2014 Nazi Coup d'état in Kiev, conducted a poll in Ukraine and Crimea. Surprise surprise, Crimea turned out to be ....... Russia
Of course results were burried and but since all american shenanigans eventually get unburried........

Source?

I earlier linked here poll results that showed that the majority in LPR/DPR supported joining Ukraine over Russia as late as 2019. So if Russia gave a shit about polls, referenda or public opinion, they would have left Ukraine a long time ago.

As for Crimea, they voted to join Ukraine in 1992. And Russia voted to join Netherlands last spring. That latter poll though was conducted by a comedy host on Dutch tv show, so there is a chance it was a joke... but then again, so are all the referenda that Russia has conducted the territories it occupies, so it's about as legitimate.

 

[Jayjay]

By the way, I can see through you all here, so I repeat my question again.
What you all think about Jeffrey Sachs views?
Kinda makes you uncomfortable, does not it?

So what is his view and why should I care?

 

[Jayjay]

... is obviously not true. If Russia does everything right, why was it kicked out of Kyiv? Why was it kicked out of Snake Island?

It was not kicked from any of these places. They left orderly, they reacted to the changing situation accordingly.

So what's the next town or territory that Russia will "leave orderly" and "react to the changing situation accordingly"? Bakhmut? Mariupol? Crimea?

 

[Jayjay]

I love barbos' bullshit. "Our plan was to lose all along you idiots!".

Congrats. You "won". I hope you keep on winning. Maybe you can win too.

No, our plan was to meat-grind ukrainian forces in Bakhmut, meanwhile preparing defensive lines for promised counter-offensive.
The plan itself was properly called "operation meat-grinder"
It mostly worked, except Prigozhin decided that he wanted to deviate from the plan and have the glory of taking Bakhmut.
This has not been a secret since independent (non CNN) observers noticed that in violation of all "common sense" russians were always keeping ukrainian supply line open however weak it was.
Of course you don't follow real reporters and don't know that.

Fine, show your sources. Which "real reporters"? Who says that this was the plan? Anyone from Russian military, or political top? Just one proof, that Russia was "keeping ukrainian supply line open", and I'll shut up about it. But I suspect all you have is some Kremlin-paid youtubers spouting nonsense as usual.

Plan worked well, ukrainian counter-offensive Pentagon planned is utter fiasco.

By the same logic, we could say that this was Ukraine's (or Pentagon's) plan all along and it worked perfectly.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I have lived through 90s Russia. At one time I was literally starving and technically homeless, while having a full time job after getting degree from a top university in Russia, all because greatest "democracy" had some ideas about further collapse of Russia.
What do you think I should feel about US actions back then? When Russian government asked for help and you said "Fuck you!"?
And now, you started a proxy war with Russia? You honestly believe anyone in Russia buys your shit?
Nobody buys your shit, not even your puppet regimes in Europe. The rest of the world is openly rooting for Russia.
And why would not they? Why would not Latin America root for Russia?

We didn't hurt you. Your own leaders looted the country.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Huh? Again this does not seem to be relevant at all to the US "invading" Ukraine. This has nothing to do with the discussion.

Oh it's pretty relevant. US does not like Assad, so they support anyone even ISIS to overthrow him, hoping to deal with them later.
Same with Russia, US does not like Putin so they support ukrainian nazis to help them with that problem.
Same with Soviet Union. Did not like them so they supported modjaheds to help them with that, hoping to deal with them later.
Did not really work that great, 9-11, then ISIS. All becasue Brzhezinsky had this polish urge to to settle the score with russians.

We did not help ISIS. We helped some anti-Assad forces that turned out to not be as friendly as we thought but they weren't ISIS.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Do you really think Ukraine wants to be a part of Russia? Cause they sure aren’t acting like it.

They (Ukrainian Regime) want what US tells them to want. And US wants Russia out of Black Sea.
Yes, Ukraine are telling story how black sea belongs to Ukraine, because ......... a lot of ethnic ukrainians live there.
Does not matter that these so-called "ukrainians" (with ukrainian last names) don't really consider themselves as such.

No, it's the Russian people that do what Putin wants.

You were allowed to keep your port--you went to war anyway. It's not about the port.

 

[TomC]

We did not help ISIS. We helped some anti-Assad forces that turned out to not be as friendly as we thought but they weren't ISIS.

I don't know how much we helped Isis, but I know that we did.
Senator McCain put a lot of effort into helping a Syrian rebel group get surface-to-air missiles from the US. Because Assad's air superiority was crushing them.
It turned out that particular group of rebels were part of ISIS. Had McCain been successful, the rebel group might just as easily have used those weapons against Israeli jets. Or U.S. jets.
The USA has a terrible track record of discerning friends from foes, especially when partisan politics gets involved.
Tom

 

[Jayjay]

Did you just call Sachs idiot?

There is absolutrely no doubt that US State Department and personally Fuck the EU Nuland organized nazi Maidan. Nobody disputes that even in Ukraine.

Bullshit. The protests started long before Nuland went to Ukraine. I guess they weren't bothered that the people protested a Russian puppet president, but they certainly weren't running the show.

it's ridiculous that you pretend otherwise.
Ukrainians as georgians before them admit that US and EU was behind it. Georgians as I said and proved with links before flat out admitted that US state department flat out funds anyone on one conditions and that conditions that they hate Russia.

Yes, one of the rare cases where you actually provided evidence. Unfortunately I can't find the link again, but if I recall it was just one person's personal opinion, and most likely hyperbole. besides, correlation does not mean causation. If the US supported civil society and media in Georgia that support democracy, freedom of press, and other positive things, and Russia happens to be against democracy, against civil society, against rule of law... then what a coincidence, US ends up supporting anti-Russian organizations!

Nuland went to Ukraine and gave money to fucking Nazis. Not jus cookies, money!

Nuland tried to bring in Svoboda party, if I recall correctly, and to try to get them to give up arms. But they said no, and Svoboda tanked in the next elections anyway. Despite Russian propaganda, nazis and other far-right extremists don't have wide popular support in Ukraine, and never have.

US selects foreign countries for regime change and then fund anyone who would do that for them, be it ISIS as in Syria or banderites in Ukraine, grug lords in central America. You funded Saddam Hussein against Iran.

If you want to bring up events that happens when USSR was still a thing, is it fair to bring up all the atrocities and war crimes that Soviets did as well?

The difference is, that US has learned from its mistakes somewhat. But Russia is still an imperialistic shithole country it was 50 years ago.

Sachs was in Vilnius during NATO party. And he talked to one of the EU country head who in public is a staunch anti-russian, in private though, he told Mr. Sachs that he agrees with everything he says.

Let me guess... you won't tell which leader that was. Sounds a lot like creationist stories that Darwin recanted on his deathbed.