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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

barbos said:
Gospel said:
barbos said:
Obama recognized Crimea as part of Russia. Secret service is going to to have extra work now.
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That's odd, I thought it was Obama that pushed for European countries to do more but they wouldn't listen to the uppity negro. But you do you.
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No, Obama famously said (I am paraphrasing) "We are fucked if we go to Ukraine hard",
To which senile Biden replied "Hold my beer!"

That's not to say that Obama is great, he just was not as stupid and corrupt as Biden, which is not much.
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That's a reasonably accurate representation on Crimea.
 
zorq said:
I called Sachs an idiot, not a liar. I looked him up and to my surprise he tried to support his claims with evidence (good for him) But then I checked his evidence and it was bullshit, so I knew in that moment I couldn't trust him. If he wasn't an idiot, he wouldn't link to evidence that contradicts the narrative he was trying to sell.
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I know for a fact that western media narrative you all parrot here is absolute garbage and lie.
And professor Sachs with all his connections says that most of EU leaders know that.
That's what he claims. They are lying to you. Media people are lying to you too.
I know that for a fact. I can smell a liar miles away.
For example when BBC tried to ban RT over their (BBC) fake chemical attack video anyone with decent ability to read between the lines of their "argument" would immediately see that they are lying.
They are all liars. That's just a fact. Alfa Bank story, same thing. 100% lie, not a mistake, 100% lie.
what else, NordStream, nobody in the media believes Ukraine did it. So they lie about that.
When Carson Tucker asked Nikki Halley about that, any police investigator worth their shit would have told you exactly what she thought about that, that is "US did it".

I don't know how these people think that they can get away with that shit. I guess they are just not capable to see through BS and probably most people are buying it. Don't know.
 
Reading barbis’s responses I don’t know whether to
1) laugh at their inanity,
2) wonder at the insane echo chamber of Russian media, or
3) fight the realization that it will take an almost complete annihilation of Russia’s gov’t and armed forces along with a couple hundred years of mass therapy to deal with pervasive paranoia and self-delusions of the Russian people to bring about long lasting peace and stability to that region if barbos’s portrayal of the Russian public’s views are correct.
 
barbos said:
zorq said:
I called Sachs an idiot, not a liar. I looked him up and to my surprise he tried to support his claims with evidence (good for him) But then I checked his evidence and it was bullshit, so I knew in that moment I couldn't trust him. If he wasn't an idiot, he wouldn't link to evidence that contradicts the narrative he was trying to sell.
Click to expand...
I know for a fact that western media narrative you all parrot here is absolute garbage and lie.
And professor Sachs with all his connections says that most of EU leaders know that.
That's what he claims. They are lying to you. Media people are lying to you too.
I know that for a fact. I can smell a liar miles away.
For example when BBC tried to ban RT over their (BBC) fake chemical attack video anyone with decent ability to read between the lines of their "argument" would immediately see that they are lying.
They are all liars. That's just a fact. Alfa Bank story, same thing. 100% lie, not a mistake, 100% lie.
what else, NordStream, nobody in the media believes Ukraine did it. So they lie about that.
When Carson Tucker asked Nikki Halley about that, any police investigator worth their shit would have told you exactly what she thought about that, that is "US did it".

I don't know how these people think that they can get away with that shit. I guess they are just not capable to see through BS and probably most people are buying it. Don't know.
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So just to summarize, your solid evidence that the US "invaded" Ukraine is that ... they MUST have "invaded" because the US is the bad guy.
No documents, videos, or recordings showing bad behavior, No documents, videos, or recordings showing money moving around suspiciously. No documents, videos or recordings showing, troops or weapons moving around. You just don't trust the US, so every bad thing you hear about them must be true.

That's not evidence, dude, that's just paranoid hatred.

Don't get me wrong, the US does some bad shit. The US has a history of doing some downright evil shit occasionally. I'll happily say that. (Do you dare to say the same about Russia? LOL )

But it takes an indoctrinated fool who doesn't care about the truth to accept random claims without any evidence that supports them.

You aren't special, you are a fallible human and while you claim to have a super power of "smelling a lie a mile away," you don't. You are not a lie detecting super hero. I just poked a hole in every single scrap you offered as evidence to support your thesis and you just brush past it. You haven't given us a single shred of evidence that would convince an impartial 6 year old that the US "invaded" Ukraine.

You failed. Your logic is not sound. You are acting irrationally. You should consider the choices you have made in your life that lead you to this sorry situation. But you won't.
 
zorq said:
So just to summarize, your solid evidence that the US "invaded" Ukraine is that ... they MUST have "invaded" because the US is the bad guy.
No documents, videos, or recordings showing bad behavior,
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Plenty of evidence. CIA chief visits to Ukraine, all the timing, meeting with their accomplices. All that is now known.
NATO bases and personal in direct violation of CURRENT Ukrainian constitution.
Same M.O. you always use and then brag about. And yes, Fuck the EU phone call.
Enough evidence to execute all these mothefuckers.

Seriously, why all these secret visits during a coup?
You think I am stupid? I don't think so.

The people who are stupid are the ones who bought Russia meddling crap. When the mere fact that invited russian ambassador got caught in the same photo with some guy from US Georgia was interpreted as some kind of meddling in US elections by your talking heads.
So, don't talk to me about paranoia before you talk about that, do you understand? Do you fucking understand?
 
zorq said:
Don't get me wrong, the US does some bad shit.
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Apparently it does all the shit, except the ones in Ukraine where it according to you did nothing.
Oh yes. and in Georgia, nothing to see there.
Oh and in Iraq, WMD was sure there,
Oh and in Cuba, these were some freedom fighters inavading on the beach, what? CIA? What CIA?
Iran-Contras? what contras?
What Iran? we did nothing there?
Democratically elected president of Chile assassinated? Don't know what are you talking about.
Prime Minister of Kongo dead? come on! he was democratically assassinated.
Cuban missiles crisis, these were all soviets. US had full god given right to order/control all their neighbor countries, and international law be damned! Russians want to do the same? oh no! they can't they are not democratic, only democracies have rights.
South Africa apparteid? We're kinda ok with it.
Please Don't call US controlled 1950-1980 South Korea corrupt dictatotrship! please don't!

My point is. US is fine with any shit as long they are the ones controlling it.
But the thing is, things are changing. US shenanigans have been tolerated by the world until now because US was way ahead the rest of the world economically. But now we have China and bunch of countries including yes Russia who are looking at them and saying, lets try this instead of that crap we have been doing so far.
 
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I think we should retitle the last few pages of this thread "What about" by barbos?"
laughing dog said:
Reading barbis’s responses I don’t know whether to
1) laugh at their inanity,
2) wonder at the insane echo chamber of Russian media, or
3) fight the realization that it will take an almost complete annihilation of Russia’s gov’t and armed forces along with a couple hundred years of mass therapy to deal with pervasive paranoia and self-delusions of the Russian people to bring about long lasting peace and stability to that region if barbos’s portrayal of the Russian public’s views are correct.
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The thought has occurred to me that barbos is intentionally working to further the interests of Ukraine. I say this because his answers and responses are so vapid, empty, and totally lacking in fact and substance. Of course it can be said that even the Russian dictator and his orcs are furthering the interests of Ukraine just as Hitler and Japan furthered the long term interests of the allied powers decades ago. The responses that barbos offers do nothing more than push buttons making those who support Ukraine double down on their resolve to oust the Russian fascists. Is it otherwise possible that someone can be so clueless?
 
barbos said:
In other news. Russia is "trolling" German Reich again about their refusal to pay compensation to ethnic russians for Leningrad siege.
Basically, Germany pays compensation only to russian jews in Leningrad, but not russian russians.
That's some shit if you ask me.
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This flew by in barbos's recent Gish gallop of rhetorical rubbish, but it is worth pausing a moment to reflect on the antisemitism inherent in that comment. It was a typical casual comment flung out there in one of his anti-Ukrainian tirades, but that kind of open, casual antisemitism is still very common in Russia. I even had an opportunity to discuss it with a Jewish friend, when I visited Russia in 1997. He was very forthcoming about the hostility and discrimination he encountered from many fellow Russians. I will give a little historical background below on why many Russians like barbos don't refer to Jews as "Russian Russians".

The Russian Empire has always had a prominent Jewish population, especially after it annexed large parts of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth during Catherine II's reign. She was extremely antisemitic and placed restrictions on where Jews could live. They were were required to abandon their religion to live and move around inside of Russia proper. In Soviet times, Stalin tended to persecute other ethnic groups (such as Poles) more, but he did engage in some antisemitic actions in order to please his new ally, Hitler, after the pact with Nazi Germany and agreement to divide up Poland. After the war, Stalin finally started persecuting the Jewish population more directly, but that largely ended with his death. Jews were considered Russian citizens, but their passports also listed "nationality", which would list Jews as non-Russian. It served to single them out and make it easier for other Russians to discriminate against them. Technically, they are not "Russian Russians".

For background, see:

Catherine the Great and the Jews: 5 Facts​

 
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Russian hardline Putin critic and commander Strelkov detained

Ukraine's main intelligence directorate welcomed Strelkov's detention as a sign that those inside the Kremlin were approaching an "active phase of internal confrontation".
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Why was this national hero, war blogger and war critic finally taken into custody? The answer is because he was telling the truth about the war against Ukraine. I wonder how barbi is going to spin this one. The putinistas continue eating themselves.
 
Copernicus said:
barbos said:
In other news. Russia is "trolling" German Reich again about their refusal to pay compensation to ethnic russians for Leningrad siege.
Basically, Germany pays compensation only to russian jews in Leningrad, but not russian russians.
That's some shit if you ask me.
Click to expand...

This flew by in barbos's recent Gish gallop of rhetorical rubbish, but it is worth pausing a moment to reflect on the antisemitism inherent in that comment. It was a typical casual comment flung out there in one of his anti-Ukrainian tirades, but that kind of open, casual antisemitism is still very common in Russia. I even had an opportunity to discuss it with a Jewish friend, when I visited Russia in 1997. He was very forthcoming about the hostility and discrimination he encountered from many fellow Russians. I will give a little historical background below on why many Russians like barbos don't refer to Jews as "Russian Russians".

The Russian Empire has always had a prominent Jewish population, especially after it annexed large parts of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth during Catherine II's reign. She was extremely antisemitic and placed restrictions on where Jews could live. They were were required to abandon their religion to live and move around inside of Russia proper. In Soviet times, Stalin tended to persecute other ethnic groups (such as Poles) more, but he did engage in some antisemitic actions in order to please his new ally, Hitler, after the pact with Nazi Germany and agreement to divide up Poland. After the war, Stalin finally started persecuting the Jewish population more directly, but that largely ended with his death. Jews were considered Russian citizens, but their passports also listed "nationality", which would list Jews as non-Russian. It served to single them out and make it easier for other Russians to discriminate against them. Technically, they are not "Russian Russians".

For background, see:

Catherine the Great and the Jews: 5 Facts​

Click to expand...

Here is a story from the NYTimes on the German reparations being paid to Jewish survivors of the siege of Leningrad. It turns out that Germany resisted such reparations, because Leningrad Jews were not alone if the suffering, and Leningrad was not a Holocaust site. However, Germany had set aside money exclusively for Jewish survivors of the Holocaust. What made Germany change its mind was that the money was that the Nazis conducted a propaganda campaign to tell Leningraders that their suffering was all the fault of Jews living amongst them. So it was part of the Nazi campaign that specifically targeted Jews. Hence, other survivors of the siege would not be eligible for compensation.

Germany Sets Aside an Additional $767 Million for Holocaust Survivors, Officials Say​


Barbos was angry, because he apparently felt that non-Jews should also get money from the Holocaust fund, although I did not see him advocating that Russia compensate all the victims of its war crimes against Poles, Ukrainians, Germans, and other ethnic groups during WWII. For example, Russia has refused to compensate the relatives of those Poles who were slaughtered at the Katyn massacre, which the office of Prosecutors General of the Soviet Union admitted was the Soviet Union's fault.
 
barbos said:
zorq said:
Don't get me wrong, the US does some bad shit.
Click to expand...
Apparently it does all the shit, except the ones in Ukraine where it according to you did nothing.
Oh yes. and in Georgia, nothing to see there.
Oh and in Iraq, WMD was sure there,
Oh and in Cuba, these were some freedom fighters inavading on the beach, what? CIA? What CIA?
Iran-Contras? what contras?
What Iran? we did nothing there?
Democratically elected president of Chile assassinated? Don't know what are you talking about.
Prime Minister of Kongo dead? come on! he was democratically assassinated.
Cuban missiles crisis, these were all soviets. US had full god given right to order/control all their neighbor countries, and international law be damned! Russians want to do the same? oh no! they can't they are not democratic, only democracies have rights.
South Africa apparteid? We're kinda ok with it.
Please Don't call US controlled 1950-1980 South Korea corrupt dictatotrship! please don't!

My point is. US is fine with any shit as long they are the ones controlling it.
But the thing is, things are changing. US shenanigans have been tolerated by the world until now because US was way ahead the rest of the world economically. But now we have China and bunch of countries including yes Russia who are looking at them and saying, lets try this instead of that crap we have been doing so far.
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When I set aside my preconceived notions that tend to paint everything Barbos posts in a negative light, I can indeed perceive the validity of this point. The United States possesses an extensive history of involvement in foreign affairs, actions which have frequently led to devastating outcomes. Ranging from the subversion of democratically elected regimes to the endorsement of oppressive dictatorships, the actions of the US have often stood in stark contrast to its own proclaimed ideals.

I must admit, my companions in Russia, who share my fondness for vodka, also committed analogous actions.

:beatdeadhorse:
 

before you start with his obama incident, I am well aware of it. So "He is an idiot" defense is not really a defense.

All I want is to show you that nobody with a half a brain believes your mainstream media narrative.
That narrative designed for that lower half of the IQ spectrum, while the other says to themselves "I am not touching this shit"
So guess which half of the spectrum are you?
 
barbos said:

before you start with his obama incident, I am well aware of it. So "He is an idiot" defense is not really a defense.

All I want is to show you that nobody with a half a brain believes your mainstream media narrative.
That narrative designed for that lower half of the IQ spectrum, while the other says to themselves "I am not touching this shit"
So guess which half of the spectrum are you?
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So what do you think of the arrest of Igor Girkin today? He is a big supporter of the invasion, but a critic of Putin. Do you think Putin is doing a good job?
 
SLD said:
So what do you think of the arrest of Igor Girkin today? He is a big supporter of the invasion, but a critic of Putin. Do you think Putin is doing a good job?
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What does that have to do with my post with video?
I have never paid much attention to Girkin. I doubt I've ever watched him speaking. I read about him from time to time and more-less understand the history. Girkin has a bit of of Prigozhin complex, both are essentially blowhards.
 
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