How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Loren Pechtel]

If Ukraine really wants to be anything other than a tool of NATO they should start with fair elections.

How?

Many of their people are in occupied territory. Many of their people have been kidnapped and wouldn't be allowed to vote. And it wouldn't exactly be fair due to the genocide that Russia has been engaging in.

Note the 2014 "election" about the "breakaway" provinces was both utterly rigged (status quo ante wasn't on the ballot) and utterly unfair (the Russian army troops were allowed to vote.) Thus we have already effectively had an election: by rigging it Russia proved that they knew the outcome would not go how they wanted, thus we know the people actually wanted to stay with Ukraine.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And Russia has millions of people who believe exactly the same delusional conspiracy theories he does,

First, it's not a conspiracy, that's a fact. Second yes, Russia has 140 millions of people who believe that Hersh is correct.
What are you gonna do?

The number of people who believe something is meaningless as to whether it is true.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So we got 0 evidence for Ukraine shelling the plant, and at least 1 shell that came from Russian-occupied territory

YOU got zero evidence. And moon is made of cheese, you got zero evidence otherwise.
Russia shelling their own plant, for what?
Get your head out of your ass.

We have Russia trying to explain the shell turning around in mid flight. That doesn't pass the laugh test.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Losing that reservoir would be an emergency situation in any other plant. Even without Ukraine shelling near spent rod ponds. What if a fuel rod is rusted and creates oxygen in one of the reactors. How do they cool that. Why does the western media completely ignore it and continue to fund the shelling.

And where is this evidence of continued shelling of the reactor area?

And if the reactor is in danger why hasn't it been shut down long ago? Hint: Look at who has operational control: Russia.

 

[Jayjay]

This is exactly right. Putin whines that the west betrayed Russia, but it's the other way around. The west put aside 70 years of animosity and did everything it could to foster peaceful ties with Russia,

According to what we know now that's a complete lie.

How so? Would Germany have let 55% of their natural gas needs to be supplied by Russia, if they didn't think Russia was a trustworthy partner? Would France even consider building and selling Russia aircraft carriers if they viewed it as an enemy? Why was Russia invited to G7 to make it G8? Why did European countries scale back their military spending after the cold war if they didn't think peace was going to be real and permanent?

The reality is that everyone was at least hoping that Russia, despite its corruption and being run by ex-KGB goon, would turn a new leaf eventually.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You can look at the Uk in India or the US with its own indigenous minorities. US was still an apartheid state when it started bashing the USSR. The US foreclosed on farms and created the dustbowl famine and slaughtered millions of livestock animals for outstanding debts during the Holodomor.

The U.S. was never an apartheid state. Do you even know what the word means?

Are you Barbos’s twin brother?

It wouldn't be unreasonable to describe Jim Crow era US as apartheid.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How so? Would Germany have let 55% of their natural gas needs to be supplied by Russia, if they didn't think Russia was a trustworthy partner? Would France even consider building and selling Russia aircraft carriers if they viewed it as an enemy? Why was Russia invited to G7 to make it G8? Why did European countries scale back their military spending after the cold war if they didn't think peace was going to be real and permanent?

The reality is that everyone was at least hoping that Russia, despite its corruption and being run by ex-KGB goon, would turn a new leaf eventually.

Because Western Europe has a long track record of playing see-no-evil and supporting/arming their enemies.

 

[Jayjay]

Thank you for being honest on this. There will never be a long-term peace for Ukraine until it is allowed into Nato.

Oh there will be peace, once it's part of Russia.

If that were to come true there would not be peace as Russia would go after something else.

And note you said the US invaded, but now you admit the goal is to annex Ukraine.

Yes, that's how it works. If you invade and lose you pay ... usually with territory.

The operative word there is "lose", not "invade". Russia invaded Ukraine, but even if it were to lose all the land it has annexed from Ukraine (which looks unlikely), it wouldn't lose an inch of its own original territory. And probably wouldn't have to pay any reparations either.

 

[barbos]

West making deadly error by shrugging off Putin's threat to go nuclear

US President Joe Biden’s inept statecraft, the enduring hallmark of his presidency, is at once a tragedy and a danger.

www.skynews.com.au

The operative word there is "lose", not "invade". Russia invaded Ukraine,

NATO invaded Ukraine. Russia is there to liberate Ukraine and then take care of it like it had been doing for a thousand of years.

 

[barbos]

How so? Would Germany have let 55% of their natural gas needs to be supplied by Russia, if they didn't think Russia was a trustworthy partner?

Russia IS trustworthy, The West is not.

 

[barbos]

And Russia has millions of people who believe exactly the same delusional conspiracy theories he does,

First, it's not a conspiracy, that's a fact. Second yes, Russia has 140 millions of people who believe that Hersh is correct.
What are you gonna do?

The number of people who believe something is meaningless as to whether it is true.

US sabotaged Nord Stream, that's the truth. And the fact that people believe matters a lot.

 

[barbos]

Note the 2014 "election" about the "breakaway" provinces was both utterly rigged (status quo ante wasn't on the ballot) and utterly unfair (the Russian army troops were allowed to vote.) Thus we have already effectively had an election: by rigging it Russia proved that they knew the outcome would not go how they wanted, thus we know the people actually wanted to stay with Ukraine.

Utter bullshit. US conducted the poll in Ukraine before the nazi coup - it showed clearly that Crimea is Russa.

 

[Patooka]

NATO invaded Ukraine. Russia is there to liberate Ukraine and then take care of it like it had been doing for a thousand of years.

This is what I mean when I say your "arguments" are becoming more and more incoherent. NATO, without sending in any forces, assigning any regional commanders or having any bases in Ukraine invaded the country. And you are welcomed as liberators. Okay son, you die on that hill. Mission Accomplished.

Russia IS trustworthy, The West is not.

So trustworthy in fact countries like Sweden and Switzerland have condemned Russia's actions. Countries whose main export for centuries says Putin's a cunt, Putin's a cunt.

US sabotaged Nord Stream, that's the truth. And the fact that people believe matters a lot.

Does not. See, I can be infantile too.

Utter bullshit. US conducted the poll in Ukraine before the nazi coup - it showed clearly that Crimea is Russa.

Look get some sleep, don't drive home and we'll discuss this in the morning. Maybe after you've had some coffee.

 

[barbos]

This is what I mean when I say your "arguments" are becoming more and more incoherent. NATO, without sending in any forces, assigning any regional commanders or having any bases in Ukraine invaded the country.

NATO had bases in Ukraine. They just avoided calling them bases.
So, it's you who is incoherent.

 

[barbos]

So trustworthy in fact countries like Sweden and Switzerland have condemned Russia's actions

Sweden is a US colony and defacto NATO member and they are so "trustworthy" that decided not to tell anyone about their investigation results into Nord Stream.
And Sweden is condemning US now for using cluster shells.

 

[barbos]

Look get some sleep, don't drive home and we'll discuss this in the morning. Maybe after you've had some coffee.

One more time. Before conducting NAZI revolt in Kiev, US administration conducted a poll in Ukraine (including Crimea), results are now public and they show than even before NAZI revolt Crimea was Russia.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

At this point, the world knows Russia is evil and genocidal. Raining rockets down on Ukrainian cities in a rain of terror. Ukraine does NOT want to be under Russian control, they want their freedom and independence. The Ukrainians want the mass murders to stop. Russia is evil.

 

[Patooka]

Sweden is a US colony

This is even better than nazi zombies.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

The Swedish have maintained neutrality for centuries. Even during WW2. Only now due to Russia's bad and aggressive behavior has Sweden been forced to try to join NATO. Russia has been harassing Sweden since the end of WW2. Fuck around and find out, Russia.

 

[pood]

You can look at the Uk in India or the US with its own indigenous minorities. US was still an apartheid state when it started bashing the USSR. The US foreclosed on farms and created the dustbowl famine and slaughtered millions of livestock animals for outstanding debts during the Holodomor.

The U.S. was never an apartheid state. Do you even know what the word means?

Are you Barbos’s twin brother?

It wouldn't be unreasonable to describe Jim Crow era US as apartheid.

Apartheid was minority white rule over a black majority in South Africa. Jim Crow was white majority rule over a black minority. The minority-rules-over-majority feature is what distinguishes apartheid from the white supremacism in the U.S.