How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[steve_bank]

Kuwait saying it was historically part of Iraq

By the way, Kuwait is historically part of Iraq. And Saddam had other legitimate reasons (oil fields shenanigans) for invasion.
Basically he was right, but the way he went about it was not particularly smart, he underestimated US/UK desire to keep oil to themselves.

How far back in history do want to go? It is nonsense for a country tday to claim land based on what happened centuries back.

IMO that goes for Israel as well over the West Bank.

If you think Hussien was right but went about it the wrig way, what does that say about Putin and Ukariane?

 

[barbos]

How far back in history do want to go?

50 years, I want to go back 50 years. GB stole Kuwait from Iraq and Kuwait was stealing Saddam's oil.
It was not about Saddam being a piece of shit dictator and democracy, it was about western desire to keep on stealing Iraqi oil.

US War on Russia is not really about democracy and all that nice stuff.
It's about US gas producers needing to sell their gas to Europe so they pay political scum class like Biden and Graham to lie about Russia
It's about US MIC to sell weapons to US and Europe, so they pay pay political scum class like Biden and Graham to lie about Russia.
It's about MSM who are being paid by the same entities to provide informational support for that scheme.
It's about some old geezers from CIA who dedicated all their lives to "fight" soviets and now want to feel important (and be paid of course) once again.
It's about psychopaths like Nuland.

But it is not about normal regular americans who are paying for all of this. And it is certainly not about ukrainians.

 

[DrZoidberg]

That's not how wars work. There's a maxim among military history academics. Amateurs study tactics. While masters study logistics.

Oh, we have admiral here. Was it you who thought that counter-offensive without air-superiority and men-superiority will work just fine?
Ukraine had no chance. Future historians will no doubt will ask the question how did that happen.
But it seems pentagon idiots believed their own shit. They believed that russians will run at the first sight of mighty ghost of Kiev Nato trained ukrainian army. Fucking cretins, made the same mistake Hitler and Napoleon did.

What? Everybody assumed Russia would win fast. Everybody. Including Ukraine. Russia's catastrophic failure in Ukraine surprised everyone.

It was laid bare how badly corruption had ruined Russian military capabilities

 

[barbos]

That's not how wars work. There's a maxim among military history academics. Amateurs study tactics. While masters study logistics.

Oh, we have admiral here. Was it you who thought that counter-offensive without air-superiority and men-superiority will work just fine?
Ukraine had no chance. Future historians will no doubt will ask the question how did that happen.
But it seems pentagon idiots believed their own shit. They believed that russians will run at the first sight of mighty ghost of Kiev Nato trained ukrainian army. Fucking cretins, made the same mistake Hitler and Napoleon did.

What? Everybody assumed Russia would win fast. Everybody. Including Ukraine. Russia's catastrophic failure in Ukraine surprised everyone.

It was laid bare how badly corruption had ruined Russian military capabilities

Not everybody. And Russia did OK (at a minimum) at all stages of this war.
Now they are doing excellent, even your generals are grudgingly agree.

you need to forget about what happened 1.5 years ago and reevaluate the situation or you will become an Oblast

 

[steve_bank]

I get Barbos' paranoia. Putin has bred it into the culture. It is reported school books now teach Ukraine is part of Russia.

You have no fucking clue about anything, let alone Russia.
You have been fed constant diet of shit all your life. I know that for a fact, I have lived in USSR, US and in Russia.
You proudly admit that you take your information from ISW. A known outfit of MIC and collection of neocon scum who are on record being wrong 100% of time. For fuck's sake, get off of this shit. These are the same people who got you into Iraq,

Me a neo con? Now that's really insulting. That's hitting below the belt.

You make our Trump followers look sane and rational.

The USSR failed bacteria it could not provide for the people and went bankrupt with militarily programs. It failed over an irrational fear and hostility to the west. Putin's Russia is failing and like the USSR will eventually collapse under its own weight.

Meanwhile the west and the world will evolve and move on.

As I said nobody over here except for politicians, pundits give a shit about Russia. Few 'hate Russians', we just do not care. Russia contributed little to the world economy and culture.

People cared about Princess Diana and the coronation of Charles. People care about the price of French wine. People argue over what city in the country has the best pizza, I do'nt think real pizza exists west of NYC

The majority over here support the Ukrainians. Without the war for most of us we would not think of Russia.

Why did Baryshnikov and Nureyev leave Russia? As did athletes and others.

Why did Baryshnikov defect?
Mikhail Baryshnikov - Wikipedia
1974: defection to Canada

More frustrating to him, the Soviet dance world hewed closely to 19th-century traditions and deliberately shunned Western choreographers, whose work Baryshnikov glimpsed in occasional tours and films. His main reason for leaving the Soviet Union was

Back in the 70s my girlfriend was a ballet student. Nureyev gave a masters class at her school.

Russia has become irrelevant for its outdated abti west ideology. China is still an antagonist with us, but we do have cultral flow both ways. And China s now inextrcably intertwined with the global economy. Russia rejects that.

 

[barbos]

Me a neo con?

You are not neocon. You are an avid consumers of their shit and used toilet paper.

 

[barbos]

Why did Baryshnikov defect?

Duh! because of toilet paper!

Next question please!

 

[barbos]

People care about the price of French wine

Don't care about that, I am a supertaster.

 

[barbos]

Back in the 70s my girlfriend was a ballet student. Nureyev gave a masters class at her school.

Back in the 70s you were lynching blacks. French wine my ass.
You clearly still live in the 60s and medically incapable to comprehend that Russia is not USSR and that toilet paper is no longer an issue in Russia.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

But being a young man in Russia is an issue. Being conscripted, abused, sent as cannon fodder to Ukraine is a far worse problem than lack of toilet paper. Which is probably a Russian problem for conscripts at the front.

 

[barbos]

But being a young man in Russia is an issue. Being conscripted, abused, sent as cannon fodder to Ukraine is a far worse problem than lack of toilet paper. Which is probably a Russian problem for conscripts at the front.

Young russian men without prior military service are not being sent to the war.
In fact, most of the mobilized are not sent either. They are still kept in reserves, in case NATO does something extra stupid.
Russian losses by my own very imprecise estimates (after visiting local cemetery) are about 20-25K dead.
Ukrainian losses are most certainly 10x of that. And Ukrainian regime do hunt young men on the street and sends them to the frontline with 2 weeks of training. I've posted a video where a man was dragged from the car and shot dead in front of his wife and kids when he refused to get mobilized. Nobody here cared to comment!
Ukrainian regime sent 71 year old tanker to train in Germany.
There are now talks about "deporting" refugee men in Poland back to Ukraine.
All of this because "ukrainians" refused to be pain in the ass for Russia and russians in Ukraine itself.
I put quotes around "ukrainians" because they had little say in the matter. Ukraine does not have free press anymore, their regime does not answer to the people, it answers to foreign powers which use Ukraine as the tool to solve their Russia problem.
the whole toilet paper and stalin discussion here is a proof of that.

And stop pretending you care about young russian men, cause according to Lindsey Graham killing russians is the whole damn purpose of that.

 

[barbos]

I think about that video of Zelensky talking to a nazi where that nazi threatens to practically kill him if he (Zelensky) follow through with his election promises to settle all issues with Eastern Ukraine and Russia. Boy, I wish Zelensky had some balls and took a gun from his entourage and shot that nazi piece of shit on that very spot. History might have been very different now.

 

[DrZoidberg]

That's not how wars work. There's a maxim among military history academics. Amateurs study tactics. While masters study logistics.

Oh, we have admiral here. Was it you who thought that counter-offensive without air-superiority and men-superiority will work just fine?
Ukraine had no chance. Future historians will no doubt will ask the question how did that happen.
But it seems pentagon idiots believed their own shit. They believed that russians will run at the first sight of mighty ghost of Kiev Nato trained ukrainian army. Fucking cretins, made the same mistake Hitler and Napoleon did.

What? Everybody assumed Russia would win fast. Everybody. Including Ukraine. Russia's catastrophic failure in Ukraine surprised everyone.

It was laid bare how badly corruption had ruined Russian military capabilities

Not everybody. And Russia did OK (at a minimum) at all stages of this war.
Now they are doing excellent, even your generals are grudgingly agree.

you need to forget about what happened 1.5 years ago and reevaluate the situation or you will become an Oblast

 

[barbos]

That's not how wars work. There's a maxim among military history academics. Amateurs study tactics. While masters study logistics.

Oh, we have admiral here. Was it you who thought that counter-offensive without air-superiority and men-superiority will work just fine?
Ukraine had no chance. Future historians will no doubt will ask the question how did that happen.
But it seems pentagon idiots believed their own shit. They believed that russians will run at the first sight of mighty ghost of Kiev Nato trained ukrainian army. Fucking cretins, made the same mistake Hitler and Napoleon did.

What? Everybody assumed Russia would win fast. Everybody. Including Ukraine. Russia's catastrophic failure in Ukraine surprised everyone.

It was laid bare how badly corruption had ruined Russian military capabilities

Not everybody. And Russia did OK (at a minimum) at all stages of this war.
Now they are doing excellent, even your generals are grudgingly agree.

you need to forget about what happened 1.5 years ago and reevaluate the situation or you will become an Oblast

Sure, you ARE winning.

 

[DrZoidberg]

But being a young man in Russia is an issue. Being conscripted, abused, sent as cannon fodder to Ukraine is a far worse problem than lack of toilet paper. Which is probably a Russian problem for conscripts at the front.

Young russian men without prior military service are not being sent to the war.
In fact, most of the mobilized are not sent either. They are still kept in reserves, in case NATO does something extra stupid.
Russian losses by my own very imprecise estimates (after visiting local cemetery) are about 20-25K dead.
Ukrainian losses are most certainly 10x of that. And Ukrainian regime do hunt young men on the street and sends them to the frontline with 2 weeks of training. I've posted a video where a man was dragged from the car and shot dead in front of his wife and kids when he refused to get mobilized. Nobody here cared to comment!
Ukrainian regime sent 71 year old tanker to train in Germany.
There are now talks about "deporting" refugee men in Poland back to Ukraine.
All of this because "ukrainians" refused to be pain in the ass for Russia and russians in Ukraine itself.
I put quotes around "ukrainians" because they had little say in the matter. Ukraine does not have free press anymore, their regime does not answer to the people, it answers to foreign powers which use Ukraine as the tool to solve their Russia problem.
the whole toilet paper and stalin discussion here is a proof of that.

And stop pretending you care about young russian men, cause according to Lindsey Graham killing russians is the whole damn purpose of that.

There's a difference. Ukraine is a country defending itself. It's every Ukrainian man's duty to fight. That gives their government the right to send whoever they want to the front IMHO. Russians are the aggressors in this war. Any Russians fighting in this war are criminals fighting an unjust war. It's every Russians duty NOT to fight IMHO. I think any true Russian patriot should turn on Putin and remove him from power, rather than continue lining that kleptocrats pockets.

 

[barbos]

There's a difference. Ukraine is a country defending itself.

Iraq, Yugoslavia, Syria, Cuba?
Why did you go to Syria?
Why is France going to go to Niger?
...
Why did France (and whole NATO) go to Libya?

I can do it all day long.

 

[barbos]

British guy lives in Moscow and teaches english, does theater, other language related things. I have been following his and other american channel since before Western aggression.
His videos are mostly in russian. Here his one day of his life in Moscow in 2023.
Looks pretty happy in Putistan. Not worried about lack of toilet paper.

 

[barbos]

 

[DrZoidberg]

There's a difference. Ukraine is a country defending itself.

Iraq, Yugoslavia, Syria, Cuba?
Why did you go to Syria?
Why is France going to go to Niger?
...
Why did France (and whole NATO) go to Libya?

I can do it all day long.

Me? What did I do in Syria? I've never been to the place. The big problem in Syria is that Russia and Iran are propping up it's fascist regime. If they hadn't done that the war might have ended a long time ago.

I still think the invasion of Iraq was a good idea. Saddam was bad news. No matter what replaced him would be better for the world and the iraqi people. Good riddance. Could it have been better executed? Most definitely? Was it criminal negligence of Bush not have any plan for how post-Saddam Iraq would work? Most definitely.

It was the UN who was fighting in Yugoslavia, with a mandate from The World. That worked out really well. So I'm not sure what your problem with that is? The UN troops handled themselves excellently and at several points disobeyed direct orders for the benefit of the Bosnian people. What is your problem with that? Yugoslavia was never under Soviet control. Tito did a good job of maintaining indipendence. After the fall of Yugoslavia it's been successful at staying out of Russian dominance as well. It's worked out really well for them. Yugoslavia is a post-communist success story.

Unfortunately no western nation has invaded Cuba yet.

France went to Niger because they just forgot that their empire no longer exist.

And what's your problem with western involvement in Libya? It was with the lightest touch, and Gaddaffi was a nasty piece of work. Libya now is a mess. But that's all Gaddaffi's own doing. He fucked up and the people rose up. You can't blame this on the west.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Back in the 70s my girlfriend was a ballet student. Nureyev gave a masters class at her school.

Back in the 70s you were lynching blacks. French wine my ass.
You clearly still live in the 60s and medically incapable to comprehend that Russia is not USSR and that toilet paper is no longer an issue in Russia.

Yes, Putin outlawed butt holes.