All of which has fuck all to do with Putin's motives or actions. Sometimes whataboutisms are used to highlight an imagined hypocrisy; but your whataboutism is just magical in design.
Bravo.
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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?
- Thread starter Harry Bosch
- Start date
Bravo.
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
Whataboutism doped up on trimetazidine.
barbos
Contributor
Actually it has a lot to do with Putin's motives or actions. Because you see, your media lies about his motives the same way it lied in all these listed cases.
And Putin is not the only one who has motives. The West have motives too, and lies about them.
It's adorable that you believe "The West" has some monolithic agenda. I wonder where you get that.
barbos
Contributor
I did not say West had monolithic agenda.
By West I usually mean US and more specifically US neocons. As for the rest of the US they do what US tells them to do, for the most part.
But you are right, it's not as monolithic as US media portrays.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Funny how some can be so cavalier about the future of wetern democracy.
One of Putin's clear goals is destabilizing the western alliance and recreating the Soviet empire. One of his current dends is that all staes who joined NATO after the fall of the Soviet Union leave NATO.
I listened to a BBC discussion on the new Russia-China relationship.
It could very well be that in 50 years China and Russia will be dictating global policy. It will come down to control of resources and economics.
If you are young and think it doesn't matter you are mistaken. The post war economic growth was underwritten by the stability provided by the west led by the USA. That order s fading, and in the future it will affect you.
But who cares, I got plenty of video games.
One of Putin's clear goals is destabilizing the western alliance and recreating the Soviet empire. One of his current dends is that all staes who joined NATO after the fall of the Soviet Union leave NATO.
I listened to a BBC discussion on the new Russia-China relationship.
It could very well be that in 50 years China and Russia will be dictating global policy. It will come down to control of resources and economics.
If you are young and think it doesn't matter you are mistaken. The post war economic growth was underwritten by the stability provided by the west led by the USA. That order s fading, and in the future it will affect you.
But who cares, I got plenty of video games.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
It's a species wide contest between having a free voice or being the subject of a police state. Does our species wish to be run like a mob or do we want individual freedoms? Time will tell.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
You say that is if Putin and his lackeys aren't trying to do the same thing. If Putin and the U.S. are both attempting to establish their forms of government in these countries then it's game-on. Right? Why are you and Putin being big crybabies because you are losing? You lose and so you resort to military force instead of letting the people decide what they want. You don't like losing so you cheat, no different than in olympics competition.
Elixir
Made in America
Cheating IS the form of goobermint they're advancing. They've succeeded in making it SOP for at least one of America's two major political parties. All that remains is for Dems to start responding in kind to the GQP, and Pootey will have won the century.
TV and credit cards
Contributor
I thought it would be interesting to read the opinion of someone on the other side of this conflict. While it has been less insightful than I had hoped, I am learning what a lifetime of propaganda does to a person.
Other thoughts - If the invasion of Ukraine is a foregone conclusion, critical now is how Xi Jinping acts during the uncertainty of war. If he looks toward Taiwan, this shit could go Nostradamus.
Other thoughts - If the invasion of Ukraine is a foregone conclusion, critical now is how Xi Jinping acts during the uncertainty of war. If he looks toward Taiwan, this shit could go Nostradamus.
barbos
Contributor
I am not following you here. Why did US (through its lackey) attack Russia in 2008?
You were losing and decided to use military force?
And now, why are you attacking Russia again (using Ukraine)?
barbos
Contributor
Really? you are resorting to this? Looks like you have no argument.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
Well, either you really aren't understanding my point or you're just being childish.
You will agree that both Russia and the U.S. want to export their forms of government. Why is Russia having such a hard time in Europe and eastern Europe? Why don't these countries rush to adopt the Russian model? Are you saying that the U.S. is a better cheater and that therefore Putin is forced to resort to military threats? Is that your argument?
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
Meanwhile, the Russian proxies in Donetsk (or Russian forces embedded there) keep shelling the Ukrainian side in violation of the ceasefire and in an obvious effort to provoke a response that could be a pretext to trigger the invasion. Two Ukrainian soldiers reported dead and four wounded. The Ukrainians have not been firing back. The Donetsk and Luhansk proxies have now said that they are ordering a "mobilization", in addition to their alleged "evacuation" of 700,000 people. (I say "alleged", because there are only some videos of people getting on busses--and there are reports that some of the busses appeared not to be full.) They even set off a bomb in the Donetsk headquarters building and blew up a car nearby, claiming it was done in an effort by Ukraine to get itself invaded by almost 200,000 Russian soldiers.
Meanwhile, President Zelensky has called for Putin to meet with him at any time and at a place of his choosing to discuss a resolution. No response yet from Reichspräsident Putin.
Ukraine reports two soldiers killed in separatists shelling
Meanwhile, President Zelensky has called for Putin to meet with him at any time and at a place of his choosing to discuss a resolution. No response yet from Reichspräsident Putin.
Ukraine reports two soldiers killed in separatists shelling
Elixir
Made in America
There's another possibility: Barbos is so totally immersed in Russian propaganda that he actually believes that the US is encroaching on Russian borders, or "surrounding" his motherland like Russia is surrounding Ukraine.
Probably doesn't see Russia attacking Georgia in 2008 for what it was: another facet of Pootey's lifetime ambition to reconstitute the Soviet Union. What actrually happened was that powerful figures within the Russian military who were, like Putin, dismayed with the breakup of the Soviet Union, encouraged South Ossetians to rise-up in order to weaken Georgia and get revenge for its departure. Just like his incursions into Kazakhstan, his takeover of Belarus, his annexation of Crimea and now his bid to invade Ukraine, it's all of a piece. And whythehell not? After all, Pootey has suffered no consequences for any of those aggressive expansionist moves.
Harry Bosch
Contributor
This is so sad. If the west Ukrainians were shelling the Eastern side, the Russians would immediately invade. Many Ukrainians will die in the next few days to satisfy the bruised ego of a damaged incompetent President Putin.
Harry Bosch
Contributor
Sorry, but Georgia is not Russia. And let me beat you to the punch: Ukraine and Bosnia also aren't Russian's states. Just because a country was once occupied and controlled by a foreign country does not mean that they remain slaves forever. If you have additional questions: please let me know. Happy to help...
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
That's possible. Seems more like he's just another Putin loyalist.
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
It's impossible to say where barbos is coming from, but one of the advantages of being declared on his "ignore" list is that we are free to comment on the topic and on what he posts without getting into a pointless personal spat with him. His comments and reactions to others are essentially the same as if he were directly replying to our posts. Since he seldom backs up what he says or engages in serious argument, I don't miss the experience. And it's not that everything he posts is wrong. You just have to make the effort to look up the story in RT or some other online Russian source, because much of what he posts here about Ukraine is just a repetition of their talking points, but with better commentary. In fact, I find myself turning to RT a lot more these days in order to get a sense of what is being fed to the Russian public.