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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

I don't know if this deserves its own thread, but it does seem to fit in this thread, so I'm sharing an article that was on WaPo today. I encourage you all to read the entire thing, since it's not behind a paywall and it has a lot of information in it.

https://wapo.st/3vMlQ39

Russia’s Foreign Ministry has been drawing up plans to try to weaken its Western adversaries, including the United States, and leverage the Ukraine war to forge a global order free from what it sees as American dominance, according to a secret Foreign Ministry document.

In a classified addendum to Russia’s official — and public — “Foreign Policy Concept of the Russian Federation,” the ministry calls for an “offensive information campaign” and other measures spanning “the military-political, economic and trade and informational psychological spheres” against a “coalition of unfriendly countries” led by the United States.

“We need to continue adjusting our approach to relations with unfriendly states,” states the 2023 document, which was provided to The Washington Post by a European intelligence service. “It’s important to create a mechanism for finding the vulnerable points of their external and internal policies with the aim of developing practical steps to weaken Russia’s opponents.”



The document for the first time provides official confirmation and codification of what many in the Moscow elite say has become a hybrid war against the West. Russia is seeking to subvert Western support for Ukraine and disrupt the domestic politics of the United States and European countries, through propaganda campaigns supporting isolationist and extremist policies, according to Kremlin documentspreviously reported on by The Post. It is also seeking to refashion geopolitics, drawing closer to China, Iran and North Korea in an attempt to shift the current balance of power.
Using much tougher and blunter language than the public foreign policy document, the secret addendum, dated April 11, 2023, claims that the United States is leading a coalition of “unfriendly countries” aimed at weakening Russia because Moscow is “a threat to Western global hegemony.” The document says the outcome of Russia’s war in Ukraine will “to a great degree determine the outlines of the future world order,” a clear indication that Moscow sees the result of its invasion as inextricably bound with its ability — and that of other authoritarian nations — to impose its will globally.
The Foreign Policy Concept of the Russian Federation, which was published March 31, 2023, and approved by Russian President Vladimir Putin, deploys bland diplomatic language to call for “the democratization of international relations,” “sovereign equality” and the strengthening of Russia’s position on the global stage. Though the Foreign Policy Concept also charges that the United States and “its satellites” have used the Ukraine conflict to escalate “a many-years-long anti-Russia policy,” it also states that “Russia does not consider itself an enemy of the West … and has no ill intentions toward it.”
Anyone have an opinion? Should the West be concerned or is this more Russian bullshit that will never happen? Is this why Putin seems to love Trump so much or Trump loves Putin? WTF is going on here?

The academic, Vladimir Zharikhin, called for Russia to “continue to facilitate the coming to power of isolationist right-wing forces in America,” “enable the destabilization of Latin American countries and the rise to power of extremist forces on the far left and far right there,” as well as facilitate “the restoration of European countries’ sovereignty by supporting parties dissatisfied with economic pressure from the U.S.”



Other points in the policy proposal, which was also provided to The Post, suggested that Moscow stoke conflict between the United States and China over Taiwan to bring Russia and China closer together, as well as “to escalate the situation in the Middle East around Israel, Iran and Syria to distract the U.S. with the problems of this region.”
Zharikhin declined to discuss his proposal.
 
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I don't know if this deserves its own thread, but it does seem to fit in this thread, so I'm sharing an article that was on WaPo today. I encourage you all to read the entire thing, since it's not behind a paywall and it has a lot of information in it.

https://wapo.st/3vMlQ39

Russia’s Foreign Ministry has been drawing up plans to try to weaken its Western adversaries, including the United States, and leverage the Ukraine war to forge a global order free from what it sees as American dominance, according to a secret Foreign Ministry document.

In a classified addendum to Russia’s official — and public — “Foreign Policy Concept of the Russian Federation,” the ministry calls for an “offensive information campaign” and other measures spanning “the military-political, economic and trade and informational psychological spheres” against a “coalition of unfriendly countries” led by the United States.

“We need to continue adjusting our approach to relations with unfriendly states,” states the 2023 document, which was provided to The Washington Post by a European intelligence service. “It’s important to create a mechanism for finding the vulnerable points of their external and internal policies with the aim of developing practical steps to weaken Russia’s opponents.”



The document for the first time provides official confirmation and codification of what many in the Moscow elite say has become a hybrid war against the West. Russia is seeking to subvert Western support for Ukraine and disrupt the domestic politics of the United States and European countries, through propaganda campaigns supporting isolationist and extremist policies, according to Kremlin documentspreviously reported on by The Post. It is also seeking to refashion geopolitics, drawing closer to China, Iran and North Korea in an attempt to shift the current balance of power.
Using much tougher and blunter language than the public foreign policy document, the secret addendum, dated April 11, 2023, claims that the United States is leading a coalition of “unfriendly countries” aimed at weakening Russia because Moscow is “a threat to Western global hegemony.” The document says the outcome of Russia’s war in Ukraine will “to a great degree determine the outlines of the future world order,” a clear indication that Moscow sees the result of its invasion as inextricably bound with its ability — and that of other authoritarian nations — to impose its will globally.
The Foreign Policy Concept of the Russian Federation, which was published March 31, 2023, and approved by Russian President Vladimir Putin, deploys bland diplomatic language to call for “the democratization of international relations,” “sovereign equality” and the strengthening of Russia’s position on the global stage. Though the Foreign Policy Concept also charges that the United States and “its satellites” have used the Ukraine conflict to escalate “a many-years-long anti-Russia policy,” it also states that “Russia does not consider itself an enemy of the West … and has no ill intentions toward it.”
Anyone have an opinion? Should the West be concerned or is this more Russian bullshit that will never happen? Is this why Putin seems to love Trump so much or Trump loves Putin? WTF is going on here?

The academic, Vladimir Zharikhin, called for Russia to “continue to facilitate the coming to power of isolationist right-wing forces in America,” “enable the destabilization of Latin American countries and the rise to power of extremist forces on the far left and far right there,” as well as facilitate “the restoration of European countries’ sovereignty by supporting parties dissatisfied with economic pressure from the U.S.”



Other points in the policy proposal, which was also provided to The Post, suggested that Moscow stoke conflict between the United States and China over Taiwan to bring Russia and China closer together, as well as “to escalate the situation in the Middle East around Israel, Iran and Syria to distract the U.S. with the problems of this region.”
Zharikhin declined to discuss his proposal.
In short, “let’s keep as many people as possible fighting with each other and with the US.”.
So … what’s new? Time to tranq the bear again?
 
Russia should figure out that if it is having a problem with "unfriendly countries," the quick and easy solution is to become friendly to them. Instead of constantly pissing them off by murdering neighbors to steal their land, they could, you know... NOT do that. It is almost like antisocial behavior like murder and theft is detrimental to trust and mutual respect.

But nah, that doesn't make any sense. Those other countries are just being mean to Russia because they are assholes. There is no other possible reason for anyone to think about why unfriendly countries feel animosity toward Russia.
:rolleyes:
 
Russia should figure out that if it is having a problem with "unfriendly countries," the quick and easy solution is to become friendly to them. Instead of constantly pissing them off by murdering neighbors to steal their land, they could, you know... NOT do that. It is almost like antisocial behavior like murder and theft is detrimental to trust and mutual respect.

But nah, that doesn't make any sense. Those other countries are just being mean to Russia because they are assholes. There is no other possible reason for anyone to think about why unfriendly countries feel animosity toward Russia.
:rolleyes:
I guess that's what happens when you have a crazy, autocrat in charge, which also explains why Putin wants Trump to become president again. Trump worships him and the party of thugs is becoming more and more like Trump. And, to think there was a time when Russia was on the verge of becoming somewhat democratic. I guess we're doomed in so many ways.

I don't know if this deserves its own thread, but it does seem to fit in this thread, so I'm sharing an article that was on WaPo today. I encourage you all to read the entire thing, since it's not behind a paywall and it has a lot of information in it.

https://wapo.st/3vMlQ39

Russia’s Foreign Ministry has been drawing up plans to try to weaken its Western adversaries, including the United States, and leverage the Ukraine war to forge a global order free from what it sees as American dominance, according to a secret Foreign Ministry document.

In a classified addendum to Russia’s official — and public — “Foreign Policy Concept of the Russian Federation,” the ministry calls for an “offensive information campaign” and other measures spanning “the military-political, economic and trade and informational psychological spheres” against a “coalition of unfriendly countries” led by the United States.

“We need to continue adjusting our approach to relations with unfriendly states,” states the 2023 document, which was provided to The Washington Post by a European intelligence service. “It’s important to create a mechanism for finding the vulnerable points of their external and internal policies with the aim of developing practical steps to weaken Russia’s opponents.”



The document for the first time provides official confirmation and codification of what many in the Moscow elite say has become a hybrid war against the West. Russia is seeking to subvert Western support for Ukraine and disrupt the domestic politics of the United States and European countries, through propaganda campaigns supporting isolationist and extremist policies, according to Kremlin documentspreviously reported on by The Post. It is also seeking to refashion geopolitics, drawing closer to China, Iran and North Korea in an attempt to shift the current balance of power.
Using much tougher and blunter language than the public foreign policy document, the secret addendum, dated April 11, 2023, claims that the United States is leading a coalition of “unfriendly countries” aimed at weakening Russia because Moscow is “a threat to Western global hegemony.” The document says the outcome of Russia’s war in Ukraine will “to a great degree determine the outlines of the future world order,” a clear indication that Moscow sees the result of its invasion as inextricably bound with its ability — and that of other authoritarian nations — to impose its will globally.
The Foreign Policy Concept of the Russian Federation, which was published March 31, 2023, and approved by Russian President Vladimir Putin, deploys bland diplomatic language to call for “the democratization of international relations,” “sovereign equality” and the strengthening of Russia’s position on the global stage. Though the Foreign Policy Concept also charges that the United States and “its satellites” have used the Ukraine conflict to escalate “a many-years-long anti-Russia policy,” it also states that “Russia does not consider itself an enemy of the West … and has no ill intentions toward it.”
Anyone have an opinion? Should the West be concerned or is this more Russian bullshit that will never happen? Is this why Putin seems to love Trump so much or Trump loves Putin? WTF is going on here?

The academic, Vladimir Zharikhin, called for Russia to “continue to facilitate the coming to power of isolationist right-wing forces in America,” “enable the destabilization of Latin American countries and the rise to power of extremist forces on the far left and far right there,” as well as facilitate “the restoration of European countries’ sovereignty by supporting parties dissatisfied with economic pressure from the U.S.”



Other points in the policy proposal, which was also provided to The Post, suggested that Moscow stoke conflict between the United States and China over Taiwan to bring Russia and China closer together, as well as “to escalate the situation in the Middle East around Israel, Iran and Syria to distract the U.S. with the problems of this region.”
Zharikhin declined to discuss his proposal.
In short, “let’s keep as many people as possible fighting with each other and with the US.”.
So … what’s new? Time to tranq the bear again?
And, think of all the massive amounts of money that humans waste on war and the Military Industrial Complex.:mad:
 
Time will destroy the Russian Federation, US action to do so is neither necessary nor desirable. We do have interest in minimizing the damage you do in dying.
You are being ridiculous. Russia is resurging right now. And you are having some troubles.
You are mostly cut off from the western materials you were dependent on. You are gutting your armies--an army needs to preserve a core for training new soldiers, you are not. You are gutting your air force. Your Black Sea fleet is basically combat ineffective. Conscription drove out an awful lot of educated Russians--and they're probably not coming back. Your armies have been exposed as a hollow shell of what everyone thought they were.

Ukraine is modifying light planes as drones and hitting deep in Russia--a light plane isn't remotely stealthy, such systems do not have any terrain-following ability--they're sitting ducks. Yet they're getting through because you can't mount an air defense. The world thought it was a fluke when that kid flew a Cessna to Red Square and didn't get intercepted--but even in times of war Ukraine is doing the same thing to you except with a robot at the controls.
 
Yeah, the waste just stays right there in the pit
In the older days that was like that. Now it gets pumped out once a year.
Well, now I'm super confused! I'm sure that you agree that Ukraine is not in the Russian federation. Russian troops are in Ukraine now. They are trying to conquer Ukraine. HOW is helping Ukraine defend itself "destroying Russia"? The key word here is how. Kak. Kak Kak. Help me understand.
Don't play dumb.
Your position is nonsense. If Russia fails in conquering Ukraine you will not be destroyed. The US withdrew from Ukraine, didn't destroy us. I'm argue that we are stronger for it. We tried to conquer Canada and Mexico; couldn't do it; withdrew; now they are our greatest allies.
Actually, I think losing in Ukraine will destroy Russia.

The thing is it's an empire held together by fear, not love. If Russia loses it's grasp of Ukraine how many other pieces will decide to leave, also?
 
Anyone have an opinion? Should the West be concerned or is this more Russian bullshit that will never happen? Is this why Putin seems to love Trump so much or Trump loves Putin? WTF is going on here?
It seems to me that basically describes the disinformation campaign they have been running against us for years.
 
Russia should figure out that if it is having a problem with "unfriendly countries," the quick and easy solution is to become friendly to them.
Like it's humanly possible to become friendly with people who are literally paid to be unfriendly to Russia.
 
Ukraine is modifying light planes as drones and hitting deep in Russia--a light plane isn't remotely stealthy, such systems do not have any terrain-following ability--they're sitting ducks. Yet they're getting through because you can't mount an air defense. The world thought it was a fluke when that kid flew a Cessna to Red Square and didn't get intercepted--but even in times of war Ukraine is doing the same thing to you except with a robot at the controls.
Dude, go easy on propaganda drink.
 
Instead of constantly pissing them off by murdering neighbors to steal their land, they could, you know... NOT do that. It is almost like antisocial behavior like murder and theft is detrimental to trust and mutual respect.
You do realize that you have it in reverse?
That's what Ukraine were doing, It's what Georgia had been doing (until Russia finally gave them a lesson)
And that's what Talking Heads in Baltic States governments are doing.
 
Your position is nonsense. If Russia fails in conquering Ukraine you will not be destroyed
That's not my position. That's the position of people which run the USA.
They are quite open that they want Russia destroyed and that is why they started this war.

Glupost! Your country is destroying itself! You've unified a Ukraine that was bitterly split in half before your invasion. Your side has invigorated and united Nato to stand against Russia. Russia has vast farm lands and resources. But you've excluded yourself from Europe; one of the best markets for your products in the world. That is your doing.
Bullshit. Ukraine is not united against Russia. They kinda were (not really) during early days of the operation.
People were signing up for the army. Not anymore. And people who signed up are now after 2 years screwed, they can't leave the army, even though they volunteered.

NATO is not united and. You only have Napoleon who is trying start WW3, even Poland now says "Nuh, we don't want to go to Ukraine anymore" F16 contracts are being cancelled. Hungary has always been pro-Russia, now we have pro-russian government in Slovakia. Sorry man, You have lost.
 
Russia should figure out that if it is having a problem with "unfriendly countries," the quick and easy solution is to become friendly to them.
Like it's humanly possible to become friendly with people who are literally paid to be unfriendly to Russia.
We tried to be friendly to you. We gave you western technology and the internet. Hell, we gave you fucking McDonalds along with numerous other western franchises for Russians to make money off of them. How is that working out for those franchisees and the people they employed now?
 
Instead of constantly pissing them off by murdering neighbors to steal their land, they could, you know... NOT do that. It is almost like antisocial behavior like murder and theft is detrimental to trust and mutual respect.
You do realize that you have it in reverse?
That's what Ukraine were doing, It's what Georgia had been doing (until Russia finally gave them a lesson)
And that's what Talking Heads in Baltic States governments are doing.
Nope. Wrong. If you had evidence to support these accusations you would have provided it by now. Russia could have easily kept their noses out of what was essentially a civil war in Georgia, and not sent Russian soldiers to kill Georgian soldiers. And the 2014 "uprising" in Ukraine's Donbas region was always just a Russian invasion made to look like a civil war. (Russia saw that their South Ossetia playbook worked so they tried to use the same plays in Ukraine) Sure, some Dontensk and Luhansk fighters were home grown, but it was always a violation of international law for Russia to send her soldiers into Ukraine to help murder Ukrainian security forces in the Donbas in 2014. (Also to send her soldiers into Ukraine to steal Crimea in 2014)

Russia is an asshole. Facts establish this.
 
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