How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Henry-Finland]

Copernicus wrote:
"It is hard enough to get budgetary support for Ukraine through Congress, and there will be considerable pushback over the use of American-manufactured military equipment being used inside of Russia."

I think this is something that US citizens do not understand:

• 90% of the billions promised by the U.S. never actually leave the country; instead, they are used to purchase military equipment from U.S. factories. Or more accurately, often U.S. sells older equipment that still works well and then Pentagon orders the latest models from U.S. factories - for the US Army. This creates jobs in the U.S., which in turn generates tax revenue for the government, etc.
  Of course, the modernization, maintenance, transportation, and training of Ukrainians on older and newer equipment cost money, but this also creates jobs for Americans.
• When the factories can produce new types of equipment the factories are also able to export these weapons and weapon systems.
• The U.S. can sell or provide all the surplus military equipment to Ukraine through the Lend-Lease program. Ukraine is fine even with older surplus gear. There aren't enough weapons and supplies for Ukraine's newly trained soldiers.
  US has even 4 miljon 155 mm cluster bombs that it will destroy as "they are old". Ukraine would gladly take them.
• 
  Yes, war is BIG business.
  
  
• Also the EU must be involved in this funding. But at the same time, it's important to consider that EU countries are taking in millions of refugees and are also covering their living expenses.

As the Ukrainians say: Give us the tools, and we’ll do the work.

Politicians who remain silent or even lie about these facts must be exposed. (US citizens could begin with the Congress.)
______________________

Copernicus! I understand that you are an older guy - I am 73 y.o.

I'd like to see a list of how fast the US can produce various weapons. If not confidential, I'm sure it is not something the DoD likes to make public.
The more sophisticated stuff has a long lead to to get from factory to field. Often measured in months or even years. X number of people can only produce so much. Putting on a second shift takes time. A whole new production line, even longer. Qualifications for the various positions and required training aside, security clearances also have to be obtained and maintained. Then once these individuals are hired and up to speed, we do not want to find them looking for another job two or three years from now.
Other countries with orders for US weapons end up getting their delivery date pushed back. And now we have god's chosen people taking some of what should go to Ukraine.

We could begin with the X million 155 mm cluster bombs that US wants to scrap.

Ok, Henry, this one’s for you. A little off topic but just in case they start a war with NATO.

View attachment 47205

ETA. I served with a Finnish infantry officer at ISAF HQ in Kabul. Great guy.

News:
"Lithuanian Defense Minister Laurynas Kasčiūnas stated on Tuesday that Russia is moving troops from Kaliningrad to Kursk."

Conclusion:
Putin trusts NATO, knowing it is only a defensive alliance. Already in the spring, he nearly emptied the Finnish border of soldiers after we joined NATO. And now he is emptying Kaliningrad, which is located in the heart of NATO, between Poland and Lithuania.

Even Barbos has left us.

 

[Henry-Finland]

A missile to the Kremlin.

 

[aupmanyav]

It was a lost opportunity. I see absolutely no problem with Russia joining in the future if it fully adopts the criteria to join NATO.

What would then be the need to have NATO? It is the existence of NATO that made Russia attack Ukraine.

 

[aupmanyav]

It is possible no one trusted Russia. I wonder why?

It is because US (and its acolytes) did not want it. It did not want a NATO member with equal number of nuclear war-heads. Then US would have lost its supremacy. Till NATO exists, there will be wars in the world. If not Russia, then China. It is the world's mafia.

 

[laughing dog]

It was a lost opportunity. I see absolutely no problem with Russia joining in the future if it fully adopts the criteria to join NATO.

What would then be the need to have NATO? It is the existence of NATO that made Russia attack Ukraine.

Nonsense. Nothing made Russia do anything. Putin wants to reclaim the Russian empire. NATO was no threat.

 

[pood]

It was a lost opportunity. I see absolutely no problem with Russia joining in the future if it fully adopts the criteria to join NATO.

What would then be the need to have NATO? It is the existence of NATO that made Russia attack Ukraine.

Evidence?

 

[laughing dog]

It is possible no one trusted Russia. I wonder why?

It is because US (and its acolytes) did not want it. It did not want a NATO member with equal number of nuclear war-heads. Then US would have lost its supremacy. Till NATO exists, there will be wars in the world. If not Russia, then China. It is the world's mafia.

Again, were you part of that decision-making process?

The rest of your post is just silliness. There were wars before NATO. There will be wars after NATO.

 

[pood]

Rather, it is the existence of NATO that keeps this Nazi from attacking the Baltic states, Finland, and Poland. That, and the fact that as we have discovered, his conscript army is utterly incompetent.

 

[ZiprHead]

Russian Railway networks facing "imminent collapse": report

The railway network's deputy head is reported to have told his subordinates at an internal meeting that the situation is critical.

www.newsweek.com

The state-owned Russian Railways faces "imminent collapse" amid a shortage of locomotives, driven by Western-imposed sanctions imposed over the war in Ukraine, a Russian Telegram channel has reported.

The sanctions have contributed to a ball-bearing shortage in Russia, which has affected locomotive maintenance in the country. This has led to a rise in malfunctions on the network's trains and an increase in the number of vehicles being suspended, Russian newspapers Vedomosti and Kommersant reported in February and March this year.

The VChK-OGPU outlet, which is widely believed to have ties to Russian security agencies, reported Monday, citing an unnamed source, that the railway network's deputy head Sergei Kobzev told his subordinates at an internal meeting "that the situation is critical."

"The complete collapse of the entire railroad network in the country could happen in days," the channel said. "[Russian Railways] chiefs have been ordered to work to the point of exhaustion. Those who fail to cope are threatened with dismissal and 'execution.' This is the motivation."

JFC!!! Russians can't make simple goddamned ball bearings???

 

[zorq]

Aupmanyav, why are all of Russia's borders with NATO countries basically unprotected now? You keep insisting that NATO is such a dire threat to Russia that they were compelled to commit hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers to violence. But, the threat NATO poses is so small that Russia's borders with NATO are now nearly completely unprotected?

Please explain this terrible threat that NATO poses to Russia that also leaves Russia utterly confident that NATO will not attack.

 

[ZiprHead]

Thread by @ChrisO_wiki on Thread Reader App

@ChrisO_wiki: 1/ Russian sources say that soldiers with rare specialities, such as tank drivers, UAV operators or even anaesthesiologists, are being sent to fight in the front lines and serve as stormtroopers. This ...…

threadreaderapp.com

1/ Russian sources say that soldiers with rare specialities, such as tank drivers, UAV operators or even anaesthesiologists, are being sent to fight in the front lines and serve as stormtroopers. This is reportedly being caused by a severe shortage of assault troops.

2/ The Russian blogger Anastasia Kashevarova says there is a "huge problem" with the "transfer of fighters with rare specialities to the [assault units of] the motorised riflemen." <i></i>
3/ Kashevarova writes: "We receive letters with tragic stories about talented UAV operators, RPG operators, tankers, who were transferred to the storm troops on the same day and died on their very first mission. <i></i>
4/ "And the problem is not that they failed to complete the assault mission, but that due to this practice, the number of soldiers with specialities is decreasing, and it takes time to train a new tanker or drone operator. <i></i>
5/ "At the same time, it is obvious that there is not an oversupply of servicemen with such specialities.

There are also more egregious cases. For example, we had to deal with a situation where an anaesthesiologist was sent to the front lines, where he was digging trenches. <i></i>
6/ "Although you don’t have to be a doctor to understand that he would be much more useful in a military field hospital."

Calling this "a talentless and irresponsible waste of personnel", Kashevarova attributes this to "a shortage of stormtroopers on some parts of the front". <i></i>

A crapton more in the link.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[ZiprHead]

Seen elsewhere: Russia got tired of being the 2nd best Army in the Ukraine and decided to be the 2nd best Army in Russia for a while.

 

[steve_bank]

The distance from Kursk to Moscow is 526 km 327 miles.

Not much farther than Seattle to Spokane.

Must be uncomfortable for Moscovites.

There have been videos of Russian citizens around d Kursk upset and afraid,

Where are Russian attack helicopters and jets?

Maybe there are some old WWII Sturmovik tank busters around.

 

[ZiprHead]

Ukraine war: Russia widens evacuations to second border region - BBC News

Some 11,000 people are evacuated from Russia's Belgorod region following reports of "enemy action".

www.bbc.co.uk

Russia is evacuating residents from a second border region, as Ukraine continues its surprise week-long offensive inside the country.
Some 11,000 people in the Belgorod region have been moved, Russian state media reported, because of "enemy action" near the border.
Belgorod lies next to Kursk - where Ukrainian troops launched their surprise attack into Russian territory last Tuesday.
Ukrainian forces have since advanced up to 18 miles (30km) inside Russia - the deepest incursion into the country since Moscow's full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Kyiv claims thousands of troops are involved.

Daaammmnnn...

 

[aupmanyav]

Evidence?

Not making Russia a member of NATO, not fulfilling the promise that NATO will not expand in countries which were part of USSR.

 

[aupmanyav]

Again, were you part of that decision-making process?
The rest of your post is just silliness. There were wars before NATO. There will be wars after NATO.

Do you think that I was?
It was a a golden opportunity. Perhaps it would have lead to complete eradication of nuclear arms piles and huge defense expenses which could have been used for betterment of people. The world would have been much safer.

 

[aupmanyav]

There has got to be a great asymmetry in immigration/emigration between the U.S. and India. I would think that far more people leave India to live in the US than leave the US to live in India. I could be wrong. Same goes for Russia. It is worth asking the question, "Why?"

Yeah, we are a poor country. Why would people come to India - except those who are poorer than us (Bangladeshis, Nepalis). The border with Pakistan is sealed, otherwise we would have had a deluge from there. The people of Pakistan occupied Kashmir want to merge with India and Indian Kashmir.

POK Kashmiris want to join India - Google Search

 

[aupmanyav]

Every so often I run across a feed from Times of India or the Hindustan Times. Every piece about Ukraine came straight from the Putin propaganda machine. So I can understand aupy's tunnel vision. Also consider that India is financially benefitting greatly from western sanctions on Russia so his support of Russia is understandable, even predictable.

Do you think we are brainless? We see both the sides of the coin. We have seen NATO attacking, interfering with third world countries. So do not be surprised that we do not believe in US. Did they not send the fourth (or whatever) armada to Bay of Bengal in 1971 (Nixon wanted to threaten us)?
Do you think Indian economy is surviving just because of oil import from Russia?

 

[aupmanyav]

Aupmanyav, why are all of Russia's borders with NATO countries basically unprotected now? You keep insisting that NATO is such a dire threat to Russia that they were compelled to commit hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers to violence. But, the threat NATO poses is so small that Russia's borders with NATO are now nearly completely unprotected?
Please explain this terrible threat that NATO poses to Russia that also leaves Russia utterly confident that NATO will not attack.

Quite simple. If NATO attacks, it is WW III. Nuclear weapons will be used, and therefore NATO will not attack.
NATO is comfortable letting Ukrainians fight their war.