bilby
Fair dinkum thinkum
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Yeah. As every American knows it started on December 7, 1941.
And WWI started on April 6, 1917.
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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?
- Thread starter Harry Bosch
- Start date
And WWI started on April 6, 1917.
Toni
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Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
Utter gaslighting bullshit. See
Polish-Soviet War. Trotsky led the Red Army in the invasion, and he was trounced by General Pilsudski at the Battle of Warsaw (1920).
laughing dog
Contributor
Every country in that region was taking, losing, and retaking land from 1400s to 1900s, so your claim is disingenuous at best.Yes, they got piece of Finland BEFORE war, not after.
And piece of Poland they got BEFORE the war, was not really a piece of Poland but a piece of Russia they lost or rather left in WW1.
So you see, Stalin did not grab any land when he had the opportunity (after the war)
And what you I bet did not know is that Poland and few other countries (other than germany) were grabbing land before WW2 as well
The only land which USSR "grabbed" was Prussia and these islands from Japan.
but these were fair and agreed upon with US/GB/France "grabs"
You're welcome.
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
Her is Putin's answer to barbos's prediction that Russia would not invade Ukraine:
This is not just limited to the eastern portions. Kyiv appears to be under attack.
Putin orders military operations in Ukraine, demands Kyiv forces surrender
This is not just limited to the eastern portions. Kyiv appears to be under attack.
laughing dog
Contributor
It was no longer Russia. And by the way, it was not Russian in the part of the Middle Ages and during the Enlightment.
Moreover, if you ask the residents of Poland at the time of the Russian "retaking", they say they were invaded.
Americans are taught WWII started September 1, 1939. Maybe Aussies get something different.
laughing dog
Contributor
Putin is betting that NATO or Europe or the USA will not engage militarily and that Russia can bear the brunt of the expected sanctions for a couple of months (they have amassed quite a lot of foreign currency reserves). I expect Putin always expects that any sanctions will not be maintained by everyone in Europe very long. But in the meantime, Putin can then blame the resulting economic misfortunes on "the West" instead of his mismanagement.
I think if Russia does not leave eastern Ukraine, it will drive Western Ukraine and its neighbors even deeper into Western Europe and possibly NATO. I think there will be lot of pressure from the NATO countries like Poland and Estonia to beef up the military presence.
I think if Russia does not leave eastern Ukraine, it will drive Western Ukraine and its neighbors even deeper into Western Europe and possibly NATO. I think there will be lot of pressure from the NATO countries like Poland and Estonia to beef up the military presence.
barbos
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Oh, now you claim first hand knowledge. How convenient.
Toni
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I did not.
A family member was there. And old enough at the time to fully understand what was going on.
Hermit
Cantankerous grump
You'd lose. For one thing I am well aware of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.And what you I bet did not know is that Poland and few other countries (other than germany) were grabbing land before WW2 as well
What you don't understand is that I don't give a rat's arse about the historical and moral backfilling used to justify expanding a country or empire. Powers will always take as much from others as they think they can. Russia is by no means the only one that does that.
Perhaps you scrolled straight past the post in which I outlined my take on territorial changes. In a previous one I expressed it curtly in one sentence: "Giving reasons other than the power of the gun is spinning stories." I know you did read that one, albeit without a smidgen of comprehension because you replied, calling it "random crap".
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
It looks like Russia is off my list of places to visit along with Iran, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, and China.
Jayjay
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My bad. Confused it with the Budapest memorandum. But NATO did not offer Ukraine a membership then, and while the summit declaration said that Ukraine will be a member eventually, that's just NATO's wishful thinking. NATO can't force anyone to join, and Ukraine was not likely to do so.
barbos
Contributor
Nope, try harder.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
In the 70s I had a philoasphy prof who was a Lituanian teen during WWII. He was pressed into the German army, escaped, and joind the resistance.
He told a post war story.
A Russian political officer was speaking at a town meeting. One of the town's people stood up and said "If god eos not exist why must you prove it!". The Russian drew his sidearm ad shot him.
The Russians and the NKVD were no better than the Nazis and the Gestapo. In the 90s a mass grave was found in Poland where Russians executed civilians.
He told a post war story.
A Russian political officer was speaking at a town meeting. One of the town's people stood up and said "If god eos not exist why must you prove it!". The Russian drew his sidearm ad shot him.
The Russians and the NKVD were no better than the Nazis and the Gestapo. In the 90s a mass grave was found in Poland where Russians executed civilians.
barbos
Contributor
Don't care. It was totally unacceptable, international laws be damned!My bad. Confused it with the Budapest memorandum. But NATO did not offer Ukraine a membership then, and while the summit declaration said that Ukraine will be a member eventually, that's just NATO's wishful thinking. NATO can't force anyone to join, and Ukraine was not likely to do so.
And boy, you ARE slow
barbos
Contributor
Yeah, russians are bad, poles are good. Got it.
Hermit
Cantankerous grump
barbos
Contributor
What part of "land that Poland grabbed from Russia in WW1" don't you understand?
bilby
Fair dinkum thinkum
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I don't know what Aussies are taught, I emigrated here as an adult.
But I am aware that WWII started with the Marco Polo Bridge Incident, on July 7, 1937. And I have met plenty of Americans who were adamant that it didn't start until December 1941.