How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[steve_bank]

Russia has a market for EVs in Africa and the Pacific from I read on the Russian economy.

 

[steve_bank]

Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine, Crimea, Moldavia, the Baltics.

Chechnya, really?

Sounds similar to Ukraine, except Ukraine is not so easy to overcome. The Stalinist Soviet Putin playbook.

Chechen–Russian conflict - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Chechen–Russian conflict (Russian: Чеченский конфликт, romanized: Chechensky konflikt; Chechen: Нохчийн-Оьрсийн дов, romanized: Noxçiyn-Örsiyn dov) was the centuries-long ethnic and political conflict, often armed, between the Russian, Soviet and Imperial Russian governments and various Chechen forces. The recent phase of the conflict started after the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991 and ended with the oppression of Chechen separatist leaders and crushing of the separatist movement in the republic proper in 2017.[3]

Formal hostilities in Chechnya date back to 1785, though elements of the conflict can be traced back considerably further.[4][3] The Russian Empire ostensibly had little interest in the North Caucasus other than as a communication route to its ally the Kingdom of Kartli-Kakheti (eastern Georgia) and its enemies, the Persian and Ottoman Empires, but growing tensions triggered by Russian activities in the region resulted in an uprising of Chechens against the Russian presence in 1785, followed by further clashes and the outbreak of the Caucasian War in 1817. Russia officially won against the Imamate in 1864 but only succeeded in defeating the Chechen forces in 1877.

During the Russian Civil War, Chechens and other Caucasian nations lived in independence for a few years before being Sovietized in 1921. In 1944 on the grounds of dubious allegations of widespread collaboration with the advancing German forces, the Chechen nation as a collective were deported to Central Asia.

The most recent conflicts between the Chechen and Russian governments began in the 1990s. As the Soviet Union disintegrated, the Chechens declared independence in 1991. By late 1994, the First Chechen War broke out, and after two years of fighting, the Russian government negotiated a ceasefire in August 1996. In 1999, the fighting restarted, resulting in yet another major armed conflict, with a large number of casualties on both sides. There was vast destruction of the Chechen capital in the battle of Grozny. The Russian military established control over Chechnya in late April 2000, ending the major combat phase of the war, with insurgency and hostilities continuing for several years.[5][6][7] The end of the conflict was proclaimed by Russian authorities in 2017, ending a centuries-old struggle, at least in name. However, armed Chechen groups continue to operate in opposition to Russian forces in Ukraine and Syria.[8][9][10]

 

[barbos]

Sounds similar to Ukraine, except Ukraine is not so easy to overcome

If you say so. I guess you agree with me that Ukraine IS Russia.
And that Ukro-Regime which currently controls parts of Ukraine is terrorist one.

You really have not thought that one through, have you?

 

[barbos]

Austin Austin Austin Austin

 

[steve_bank]

We know what is in store for Ukraine if Russia takes it over.

We know what is in store for Taiwan if China takes it over.

We know these facts from what Russia and China do.

 

[steve_bank]

Sounds similar to Ukraine, except Ukraine is not so easy to overcome

If you say so. I guess you agree with me that Ukraine IS Russia.
And that Ukro-Regime which currently controls parts of Ukraine is terrorist one.

You really have not thought that one through, have you?

I do say so. Any state formerly related to the Soviet Union that makes a free choice to reject Putin;'s Russia is attacked or subverted.

I remember Russian tanks in Poland.

In the 70s I knew an important who went through the Hungarian Uprising.

Face it Barbos, many people want nothing to do with Russia, with good reason. From Stalin to Putin Russia reresnt6s oppression.

Hungarian Revolution of 1956 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Hungarian Revolution of 1956 (23 October – 4 November 1956; Hungarian: 1956-os forradalom), also known as the Hungarian Uprising, was an attempted countrywide revolution against the government of the Hungarian People's Republic (1949–1989) and the policies caused by the government's subordination to the Soviet Union (USSR).[nb 2] The uprising lasted 12 days before being crushed by Soviet tanks and troops on 4 November 1956. Thousands were killed and wounded and nearly a quarter of a million Hungarians fled the country.[5][6]

Hungary, Poland, Chechnya,East Germany, Ukraine and more, the same Russian playbook.

 

[Henry-Finland]

Ok I had to look this up. NOBODY would ever design something so ug, let alone buy it. Has to be AI.
View attachment 47668
NOPE! It’s for reelz. Looks like 10” wheels and 3” ground clearance. Apparently comes with a front that has been pre-collided into a downed tree. I bet a healthy babushka could push it over on its side.

The car is designed by Avtotor, a Russian carmaker based in Kaliningrad, in collaboration with the Moscow Polytechnic Institute.

The advancement of Russian car technology has been tremendous!
You see those two steel loops at the front down below, making it easy to tow the car! The loops are so prominently placed that, for example, when a woman in a mini skirt and high heels tries to move a car that's stalled on the road, she doesn't have to crawl underneath to find a place to attach the tow cable!

We in the West haven’t thought things through this far!

 

[barbos]

Sounds similar to Ukraine, except Ukraine is not so easy to overcome

If you say so. I guess you agree with me that Ukraine IS Russia.
And that Ukro-Regime which currently controls parts of Ukraine is terrorist one.

You really have not thought that one through, have you?

I do say so. Any state formerly related to the Soviet Union that makes a free choice to reject Putin;'s Russia is attacked or subverted.

I remember Russian tanks in Poland.

In the 70s I knew an important who went through the Hungarian Uprising.

Face it Barbos, many people want nothing to do with Russia, with good reason. From Stalin to Putin Russia reresnt6s oppression.

Hungarian Revolution of 1956 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Hungarian Revolution of 1956 (23 October – 4 November 1956; Hungarian: 1956-os forradalom), also known as the Hungarian Uprising, was an attempted countrywide revolution against the government of the Hungarian People's Republic (1949–1989) and the policies caused by the government's subordination to the Soviet Union (USSR).[nb 2] The uprising lasted 12 days before being crushed by Soviet tanks and troops on 4 November 1956. Thousands were killed and wounded and nearly a quarter of a million Hungarians fled the country.[5][6]

Hungary, Poland, Chechnya,East Germany, Ukraine and more, the same Russian playbook.

Poles, hungarians, germans and even ukrainian nazis can take some offence from comparing them to islamic terrorists

 

[barbos]

I remember Russian tanks in Poland.

Please, do tell us.

 

[bilby]

I bet a healthy babushka could push it over on its side.

Sure, but she could also push over a T-72.

"Studies have shown that an ant can carry one hundred times its own weight, but there is no known limit to the lifting power of the average tiny eighty-year-old peasant grandmother." - Terry Pratchett.

 

[Henry-Finland]

Do not forget Tchekoslovakia 1968.



Russian soldiers are always told that they have to free this or that country from kontra-revolutioners or nowadays 'nazis'.
Then they are very astonished when all the people take to the streets and tell them to go home.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

I worked for years at a business started by a Hungarian refugee from the 1956 revolution. He at age 16, was forced to flee Hungary with a price on his head for his counter revolutionary activities.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Sounds similar to Ukraine, except Ukraine is not so easy to overcome

If you say so. I guess you agree with me that Ukraine IS Russia.
And that Ukro-Regime which currently controls parts of Ukraine is terrorist one.

You really have not thought that one through, have you?

Ukraine is not Russia. It is though, last resting place of tens of thousands of dead Russian invaders.

 

[steve_bank]

I remember Russian tanks in Poland.

Please, do tell us.

Go to a Polish bar and ask those Nazis Poles about it, if you dare. Go into a bar and call them Nazis.

If they will let you cross he border.

 

[barbos]

Sounds similar to Ukraine, except Ukraine is not so easy to overcome

If you say so. I guess you agree with me that Ukraine IS Russia.
And that Ukro-Regime which currently controls parts of Ukraine is terrorist one.

You really have not thought that one through, have you?

Ukraine is not Russia. It is though, last resting place of tens of thousands of dead Russian invaders.

Ukraine IS Russia.

 

[barbos]

I remember Russian tanks in Poland.

Please, do tell us.

Go to a Polish bar and ask those Nazis Poles about it, if you dare. Go into a bar and call them Nazis.

If they will let you cross he border.

I asked you to provide the evidence for BS you post here. So, provide the evidence.

 

[barbos]

I worked for years at a business started by a Hungarian refugee from the 1956 revolution. He at age 16, was forced to flee Hungary with a price on his head for his counter revolutionary activities.

1956 was 10 years after WW2 in which Germany and Hungary both were allies and both invaded Russia.
10 years after USSR won and was devastated by that war, after which US and UK started Cold war trying to destroy USSR and the rest of soviet block including Hungary.

USSR did something bad in Hungary, And US did something good in Vietnam, Chile, Latin America, Cuba

 

[Henry-Finland]

How Finland has always felt as a neighbour of Russia.



P.S. This is not a photoshop, the rock is real.

 

[steve_bank]

I remember Russian tanks in Poland.

Please, do tell us.

Go to a Polish bar and ask those Nazis Poles about it, if you dare. Go into a bar and call them Nazis.

If they will let you cross he border.

I asked you to provide the evidence for BS you post here. So, provide the evidence.

My last response to you. The Russian response to dissent is always force.

As I said Ukraine is the same old Russian playbook going back to Stalin.

A lot of people got fed up with Russian oppression and rebelled.

Martial law in Poland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Martial law in Poland (Polish: Stan wojenny w Polsce) existed between 13 December 1981 and 22 July 1983. The government of the Polish People's Republic drastically restricted everyday life by introducing martial law and a military junta in an attempt to counter political opposition, in particular the Solidarity movement.

Since the late 1970s, communist Poland had been in a deep economic recession. Edward Gierek, First Secretary of the Polish United Workers' Party (PZPR), had obtained a series of large loans from foreign creditors to achieve better economic output, but they instead resulted in a domestic crisis. Essential goods were heavily rationed, which acted as a stimulus to establishing the first anti-communist trade union in the Communist Bloc, known as Solidarity, in 1980. Gierek, who permitted the trade union to appear per the Gdańsk Agreement, was dismissed from his post less than a month later and confined to house arrest. Following countless strikes and demonstrations by employees of chief industrial regions, Poland was heading towards bankruptcy. The new First Secretary, General Wojciech Jaruzelski, was determined to put an end to the demonstrations by force if necessary.

On 13 December 1981, Jaruzelski announced the introduction of martial law in a televised speech, following the vote of the Council of State the previous day which formally authorised its introduction. An extraconstitutional military junta, the Military Council of National Salvation (WRON), was formed to rule Poland during the time. The Polish People's Army, Citizens' Militia (MO), ZOMO special paramilitary units, and tanks were deployed on the streets to demoralize demonstrators, begin regular patrols, control strategic enterprises, and maintain curfew. Intercity travelling without a permit was forbidden, food shortages intensified, and censorship was placed on all media and correspondence. The secret services (SB) wiretapped phones in public booths and state institutions. Thousands of opposition activists were imprisoned without trial,<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law_in_Poland#cite_note-auto6-2"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a> and although martial law was lifted in 1983, many political prisoners were not released until a general amnesty in 1986. The crackdown on the opposition led the Reagan Administration to introduce economic sanctions against Poland and the neighbouring Soviet Union, further worsening the former's economy.

Some protests appeared in response to the introduction of martial law. On 16 December, the ZOMO squads pacified the pro-Solidarity miners' strike in the Wujek Coal Mine in the industrial city of Katowice, killing nine demonstrators. Other demonstrations across Poland were dispersed by the military or paramilitary units, which utilized water cannons, tear gas, batons, truncheons, and clubs, killing 91 people in total, though this figure is uncertain and is still debated among historians.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law_in_Poland#cite_note-auto6-2"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a> Martial law succeeded in marginalising the Solidarity movement, which would largely remain on the sidelines until the late 1980s. As fewer people engaged in anti-government demonstrations, martial law was suspended on 31 December 1982,<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law_in_Poland#cite_note-3"><span>[</span>3<span>]</span></a> and was formally lifted on 22 July 1983, a state holiday.

Soviet tanks move to Poland’s southern border – archive, 31 July 1968

31 July 1968: Observers believe the Soviets are doing this to ‘show the flag’ during the Czechoslovak crisis

www.theguardian.com

A Soviet tank column stood by today near this frontier town in south Poland as communist leaders from Moscow to Prague continued their fateful talks in neighbouring Slovakia.

The tanks, on transporters, and other column apparently consisting of supply vehicles were parked about 11 miles from Cieszyn on side roads of the main highway to Katowice, the chief town of the industrial region of Upper Silesia.

Although the tanks were hardly discernible from the main road, the Russians appeared to be making no attempts at concealment. Groups of soldiers and officers stood talking on the verge of the main road. Each column appeared to stretch for more than half a mile. At one point a lorry loaded with brass band instruments pulled up and parked on the main road.

Go ahead and go to a bar in Poland, have a beer or two, and explain to the Poles they are Naz

Neo Cons
Neo Nazis
Neo Soviets

 

[ZiprHead]

You see those two steel loops at the front down below, making it easy to tow the car!

The likelyhood of the car needing to be towed is far greater than any vehicle in the west.