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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

I worked for years at a business started by a Hungarian refugee from the 1956 revolution. He at age 16, was forced to flee Hungary with a price on his head for his counter revolutionary activities.
1956 was 10 years after WW2 in which Germany and Hungary both were allies and both invaded Russia.
10 years after USSR won and was devastated by that war, after which US and UK started Cold war trying to destroy USSR and the rest of soviet block including Hungary.

USSR did something bad in Hungary, And US did something good in Vietnam, Chile, Latin America, Cuba
Here is the difference between you and us. Many of us here, probably most of us, agree that the U.S. did bad stuff in Vietnam, Chile, Latin America, Cuba, and I might add Guatemala, Iran, and a number other places.

Can you name anything bad that YOU think your beloved Putinista Russia has ever done, or is doing?
 
Can you name anything bad that YOU think your beloved Putinista Russia has ever done, or is doing?

Why should he? You just did half his job for him, painting US and “the west” as international villains. All that remains is for him to agree; he doesn’t even have to laud the glories of Mother Russia. They already stand superior by your own admission.
/Putista dishonesty
 
I worked for years at a business started by a Hungarian refugee from the 1956 revolution. He at age 16, was forced to flee Hungary with a price on his head for his counter revolutionary activities.
1956 was 10 years after WW2 in which Germany and Hungary both were allies and both invaded Russia.
10 years after USSR won and was devastated by that war, after which US and UK started Cold war trying to destroy USSR and the rest of soviet block including Hungary.

Wrong. What started the Cold War was that Stalin reneged on his Yalta promise to hold free elections in Eastern European countries.
 
By the way, do you think the USSR did bad stuff?
 
Oh, wait, let me guess. Lenin “created” Ukraine. That’s probably the only bad thing you think the USSR ever did. :rolleyes:
 
do you think the USSR did bad stuff?
Don’t wanna put words into such a twisted mouth, but I’m pretty sure he thinks it’s bad that the USSR lost its shit. In a righteous world, Russia would still own all those satellite States and much much more.
 
Here is the difference between you and us. Many of us here, probably most of us, agree that the U.S. did bad stuff in Vietnam, Chile, Latin America, Cuba, and I might add Guatemala, Iran, and a number other places.
And Ukraine?
too soon?
 
I worked for years at a business started by a Hungarian refugee from the 1956 revolution. He at age 16, was forced to flee Hungary with a price on his head for his counter revolutionary activities.
1956 was 10 years after WW2 in which Germany and Hungary both were allies and both invaded Russia.
10 years after USSR won and was devastated by that war, after which US and UK started Cold war trying to destroy USSR and the rest of soviet block including Hungary.

Wrong. What started the Cold War was that Stalin reneged on his Yalta promise to hold free elections in Eastern European countries.
he did the right thing, becasue US/UK were thinking about using germans to attack USSR right after the end WW2.
Having said that, West Germany and Japan had not had "free" elections for a long time after WW2. In fact, I would argue they are still occupied. Most of the Eastern Europe were under tight control of local communists which took part in war against western Europe Hitler.
 
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Oh, wait, let me guess. Lenin created Ukraine. That’s probably the only bad thing you think the USSR ever did. :rolleyes:
Yes, Lenin created Ukraine. I m glad you finally agree with (real) ukrainians themselves.

Given the reaction in Ukraine after Putin invaded in 2014, I would say that Vladimir Putin deserves the most credit for creating modern Ukraine--with its professional military, revived Ukrainian language, and strengthened nationalism. All Lenin did was reconquer a rebellious province and force it to submit to a reconstituted, rebranded Russian Empire. Stalin did all that he could to suppress and destroy Ukraine. It reemerged after the collapse of the Soviet Union and expelled Putin's pro-Moscow, Viktor Yanukovych. That is the primary reason why Putin made the godawful stupid mistake of invading. What a mess he created.
 
A long history going back before Russia. Romans and Greeks?

As is typical, Ukraine became part of the Soviet Union by force. The modern independent stare of Ukraine was created by an agreement between Russia, the British, and the USA. Ukraine exchanged nuclear weapons for a guarantee of sovereignty.


During the Great Northern War, Hetman Ivan Mazepa allied with Charles XII of Sweden in 1708. However, the Great Frost of 1709 greatly weakened the Swedish army. Following the Battle of Poltava later in 1709, there was a diminishment in Hetmanate power, culminating with the disestablishment of the Cossack Hetmanate in the 1760s and the destruction of the Zaporozhian Sich in the 1770s. Following the Partitions of Poland (1772–1795) and the Russian conquest of the Crimean Khanate, the Russian Empire and Habsburg Austria were in control of all the territories that constitute present-day Ukraine for over a hundred years. Ukrainian nationalism developed in the 19th century.

A chaotic period of warfare ensued after the Russian Revolutions of 1917, as well as a simultaneous war in the former Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria following the dissolution of the Habsburg monarchy after World War I. The Soviet–Ukrainian War (1917–1921) followed, in which the Bolshevik Red Army established control in late 1919.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ukraine#cite_note-6"><span>[</span>6<span>]</span></a> The Ukrainian Bolsheviks, who had defeated the national government in Kiev, established the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, which on 30 December 1922 became one of the founding republics of the Soviet Union. Initial Soviet policy on the Ukrainian language and Ukrainian culture made Ukrainian the official language of administration and schools. Policy in the 1930s turned to Russification. In 1932 and 1933, millions of people in Ukraine, mostly peasants, starved to death in a devastating famine, known as the Holodomor. It is estimated that 6 to 8 million people died from hunger in the Soviet Union during this period, of whom 4 to 5 million were Ukrainians.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ukraine#cite_note-7"><span>[</span>7<span>]</span></a>

After the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany invaded Poland in September 1939, the Ukrainian SSR's territory expanded westward. Axis armies occupied Ukraine from 1941 to 1944. During World War II, elements of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army fought for Ukrainian independence against both Germany and the Soviet Union, while other elements collaborated with the Nazis, assisting them in carrying out the Holocaust in Ukraine and their oppression of Poles. In 1953, Nikita Khrushchev, ethnic Russian former head of the Communist Party of Ukraine, succeeded as head of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and enabled more political and cultural freedom, which led to a Ukrainian revival. In 1954 the republic expanded to the south with the transfer of Crimea from Russia. Nevertheless, political repressions against poets, historians and other intellectuals continued, as in all other parts of the USSR.

Ukraine became independent when the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991. This started a period of transition to a market economy, in which Ukraine suffered an eight-year recession.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ukraine#cite_note-Macroindicators_NBU-8"><span>[</span>8<span>]</span></a> Subsequently however, the economy experienced a high increase in GDP growth until it plunged during the Great Recession.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ukraine#cite_note-9"><span>[</span>9<span>]</span></a>

A prolonged political crisis began on 21 November 2013, when president Viktor Yanukovych suspended preparations for the implementation of an association agreement with the European Union, instead choosing to seek closer ties with Russia. This decision resulted in the Euromaidan protests and later, the Revolution of Dignity. Yanukovych was then impeached by the Ukrainian parliament in February 2014. On 20 February, the Russo-Ukrainian War began when Russian forces entered Crimea. Soon after, pro-Russian unrest enveloped the largely Russophone eastern and southern regions of Ukraine, from where Yanukovych had drawn most of his support. An internationally unrecognized referendum in the largely ethnic Russian Ukrainian autonomous region of Crimea was held and Crimea was de facto annexed by Russia on 18 March 2014. The War in Donbas began in Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts of Ukraine involving the Russian military. The war continued until 24 February 2022, when Russia launched a major invasion of much of the country.

The memoranda, signed in Patria Hall at the Budapest Convention Center with US Ambassador Donald M. Blinken amongst others in attendance,[3] prohibited Russia, the United States and the United Kingdom from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations." As a result of other agreements and the memorandum, between 1993 and 1996, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons.[4][5]


A copy of the signed document.

 
The first human settlement on the territory of Russia dates back to the Oldowan period in the early Lower Paleolithic. About 2 million years ago, representatives of Homo erectus migrated from Western Asia to the North Caucasus (archaeological site of Kermek [ru] on the Taman Peninsula[6]).

Russia is 2 millions years old. Take that, Ukraine!
And Americas are not older than 10-15k years, it was founded by settlers from .... Russia. Hence, you belong to Russia!
Don't argue, that's just historical fact.
 
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Oh, wait, let me guess. Lenin created Ukraine. That’s probably the only bad thing you think the USSR ever did. :rolleyes:
Yes, Lenin created Ukraine. I m glad you finally agree with (real) ukrainians themselves.

No, I don’t agree with it. Kyivian Rus predated Moscow/Russia by hundreds of years. I was paraphrasing your false belief.
 
Here is the difference between you and us. Many of us here, probably most of us, agree that the U.S. did bad stuff in Vietnam, Chile, Latin America, Cuba, and I might add Guatemala, Iran, and a number other places.
And Ukraine?
too soon?

Not sure what you mean here. Clearly arming Ukraine was the right thing to do. If we hadn't, your side would have conquered all of Ukraine by now.
 
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