How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Jimmy Higgins]

Amyway. according to official reporting. All Ukrainian border control people left Russia-Ukraine border and some 40 left to russian territiory.
One of the ukrainian Su-27 jet fled Ukraine and landed in Romania.

Russia seems to be destroying Ukrainian bases all over Ukraine.

That doesn't make sense the way you wrote it since everywhere is Russia. Let me fix this for you:

Amyway. according to official reporting. All Russian border control people left Russia-Russia border and some 40 left to russian territiory.
One of the russian Su-27 jet fled Russia and landed in Russia.

Russia seems to be destroying Russian bases all over Russia.

Really?

Well, according to you, TODAY and most recently you said Ukraine was always part of Russia. TOMORROW, what will it be? Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia were always part of Russia? Will it go as far as Romania, Bulgaria, and Poland were always part of Russia?

The difference is, Russia just lacks the force to pull that off. They don't have enough forces around Ukraine to occupy it in an insurgency. And the bullshit that is 'it is all Russia' is seen when these nations left Russia in a hurry and are not in any way indicating they want back in.

Putin has been working hard manipulating these nations, turning them further dystopian, but has only gotten so much in results. Ukraine rebelled again him, Poland and Hungary aren't moving fast enough, but at least he has Belarus.

 

[barbos]

Well, according to you, TODAY and most recently you said Ukraine was always part of Russia. TOMORROW, what will it be? Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia were always part of Russia? Will it go as far as Romania, Bulgaria, and Poland were always part of Russia?

I already answered that question. It's Belarus and Ukraine, the rest are not in Russian interests, especially Romania. Romania have never been part of Russia.
And so far I get impression that Russia is not going to annex Ukraine.
But Donetsk and Lugansk are gone. Looks like repeat of Georgian War but better executed.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The idea that a Russian thinks that karma balances in their favor based on how nations have treated others is really unfortunate. The second nations saw they could release themselves from the USSR/Russia, they bolted as fast as they could. I wonder why.

Russia is not USSR. In fact this constant comparison is one of the reason for this shit.

Russia was the bleedin' brain and heart of the USSR. Too bad the Government was shit and Ukraine ran as fast as they could upon its collapse. Putin just can't handle the fact that the attempted Coup against Yeltsin failed.

 

[barbos]

The difference is, Russia just lacks the force to pull that off. They don't have enough forces around Ukraine to occupy it in an insurgency.

I am afraid your hopes of insurgency are baseless.
Plan, it seems, is to force regime change into something more tolerable and have Donetsk/Lugansk. And regime change is desirable but not required I think.
In fact, I think regime change is pointless. All Russia needs is legally binding neutrality.
And bombing will stop immediately.
But "rebels" are reportedly very enthusiastic and want to go further into Eastern Ukraine, which is, in my opinion, too much.
In case Putin reads it, strategically it's better to leave bunch of pro-russian regions in Ukraine to make it less uniformly anti-russian
Having said that, I don't see how to keep Ukraine less nazi-prone in the long term, I just don't and this is unfortunate.

 

[barbos]

The idea that a Russian thinks that karma balances in their favor based on how nations have treated others is really unfortunate. The second nations saw they could release themselves from the USSR/Russia, they bolted as fast as they could. I wonder why.

Russia is not USSR. In fact this constant comparison is one of the reason for this shit.

Russia was the bleedin' brain and heart of the USSR. Too bad the Government was shit and Ukraine ran as fast as they could upon its collapse. Putin just can't handle the fact that the attempted Coup against Yeltsin failed.

You should hold your nose and really listen to Putin's lecture. It's actually very educational and based in reality, unlike propaganda you parrot here.
Putin recited accepted and documented history very very well. Who knew he had time to study.

 

[Elixir]

that's why you keep attacking Russia non stop.

Apparently you don't know the English meaning of "attack".
Or "invade".
Let me help you out here, before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.
"INVADE" and "ATTACK" are what Russia is doing to Ukraine right now.

You have repeatedly stated with your usual unwarranted confidence, that Russia would NOT invade Ukraine. So you either ... uh, told a little fabrication ... or ... you were very much fooled by Pootey doing precisely what the US said he was going to do, or, you just didn't know what "invade" means?

Now Russia has ATTACKED and INVADED Ukraine, and you're pretending you never said that. Makes one think you're either totally dishonest or totally clueless about your own Country, its "leader" and its actions.

The US has never landed a single occupying troop on Russian soil, and has never fired a single missile at Russian territory.
"The West" has never attacked or invaded Russia since Germany tried it in WWII.
Yet, you play victim so well! Why do you keep performing this charade for people who can see right though it?

I have heard a lot of US security wonks assert that the US has some awesome cyber warfare capabilities that Russia has never seen. I'm pretty sure Pootey is so full of himself that within short order, we will be finding out what kind of pain that can cause the Russian people, and whether Pootey's propaganda machine is powerful enough to keep the Russian people from blaming him for their hardship.

If Pootey is indeed able to hoodwink the Russian people into thinking the cost of his imperialist aggression is okay even as their standard of living plummets, then it will probably be up to the people of Ukraine to teach him the lesson he should have learned from Afghanistan.
That's going to be a bloody, expensive lesson, but Pootey has nothing to lose personally. The cost is going to accrue to the Barboses of the world.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

that's why you keep attacking Russia non stop.

Apparently you don't know the English meaning of "attack".
Or "invade".
Let me help you out here, before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.
"INVADE" and "ATTACK" are what Russia is doing to Ukraine right now.

You have repeatedly stated with your usual unwarranted confidence, that Russia would NOT invade Ukraine. So you either ... uh, told a little fabrication ... or ... you were very much fooled by Pootey doing precisely what the US said he was going to do, or, you just didn't know what "invade" means?

Now Russia has ATTACKED and INVADED Ukraine, and you're pretending you never said that. Makes one think you're either totally dishonest or totally clueless about your own Country, its "leader" and its actions.

The US has never landed a single occupying troop on Russian soil, and has never fired a single missile at Russian territory.

Didn't we support the White Army? Granted, that wasn't an occupying force, but supporting the locals.

Yet, you play victim so well! Why do you keep performing this charade for people who can see right though it?

Because victimhood is a Russian trait. Russia isn't great, not because Russia has failed to develop itself into a modern nation, but because other countries have interferred in stopping their greatness. Isn't this the greatest lie about Putin? What the heck has Russia accomplished under his leadership? Look at China's advancements since the 1980s, look at Russias in the last 30 years. It's pathetic. If Russia didn't have gas and oil, they'd be a bigger Mongolia. So we hear about the old people whining about the Crimean War (as if it were recent), instead of noticing that other than a space program and nuclear weapons, Russia really has been failed by their Communist and Putinatic governments over the last 100+ years. They have virtually no legacy to show for all the suffering, didn't even make it to the moon.

So Putin needs to push the narrative that it is the West's fault. Not his fault, not the oligarchs that raped their ability to become an economic engine. It is the West, you know the Crimean War and all (where oddly enough, the loss in the Crimean War was a wake up call to modernize back then). But why strive to become a more self-sustaining nation when you can try and sell a lie. Much easier to sell a lie. The West is a meanie and why Russia isn't great, not because it's leadership has sucked for over a century.

 

[ZiprHead]

Putin said he is going to "de Nazify Ukraine'. It is not hard to imagine what that will mean.

Maybe he should start with de-nazifying Russia.

 Russian National Unity

Russian National Unity (RNU) or All-Russian civic patriotic movement "Russian National Unity" (Russian: Всероссийское общественное патриотическое движение "Русское национальное единство"), is a neo-Nazi[1][2][3][4][5] political party and paramilitary organization based in Russia and formerly operating in states with Russian-speaking populations.[6][7] It was founded by the ultra-nationalist Alexander Barkashov.[6] The movement advocates the expulsion of non-Russians and an increased role for traditional Russian institutions such as the Russian Orthodox Church. The organization is currently unregistered federally in Russia.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The idea that a Russian thinks that karma balances in their favor based on how nations have treated others is really unfortunate. The second nations saw they could release themselves from the USSR/Russia, they bolted as fast as they could. I wonder why.

Russia is not USSR. In fact this constant comparison is one of the reason for this shit.

Russia was the bleedin' brain and heart of the USSR. Too bad the Government was shit and Ukraine ran as fast as they could upon its collapse. Putin just can't handle the fact that the attempted Coup against Yeltsin failed.

You should hold your nose and really listen to Putin's lecture. It's actually very educational and based in reality, unlike propaganda you parrot here.

I've parroted nothing. Unless you think all that text about Britain and France historically putting a leash on Russia was a lie. Maybe it is. Maybe that is made up too.

The year is 2022, not the 1722. There are no "backsies" here in 21st century diplomacy. Putin is trying to relive the good ole days of early 20th century and before Europe, where countries could just go invade whoever they wanted. That policy stopped for some reason... something about catastrophic destruction and death in a couple of wars.

Putin recited accepted and documented history very very well. Who knew he had time to study.

Are you seriously that deep in this?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The difference is, Russia just lacks the force to pull that off. They don't have enough forces around Ukraine to occupy it in an insurgency.

I am afraid your hopes of insurgency are baseless.

Okay, is Ukraine full of anti-Russians making an insurgency of some form likely or is it not full of anti-Russians and an insurgency isn't likely. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. You are droning on about the danger to Russians in Ukraine, Putin talking of Genocide... but no insurgency?

How Rumsfeldian... Ukraine is dangerous to Russians, they be murdering them! We'll be welcomed like heroes!

 

[barbos]

Are you seriously that deep in this?

What do you mean by that? What he said is actually the history, that's exactly what happened.

The year is 2022, not the 1722. There are no "backsies" here in 21st century diplomacy. Putin is trying to relive the good ole days of early 20th century and before Europe,

You are parroting anti-russian propaganda tropes from ..... the last century.

 

[Elixir]

And so far I get impression that Russia is not going to annex Ukraine.

Yeah, and yesterday you were under the impression that Russia wasn't going to invade Ukraine.
You're batting ZERO @barbos. (That's an idiom - look it up).

 

[barbos]

The difference is, Russia just lacks the force to pull that off. They don't have enough forces around Ukraine to occupy it in an insurgency.

I am afraid your hopes of insurgency are baseless.

Okay, is Ukraine full of anti-Russians making an insurgency of some form likely or not and an insurgency isn't likely. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

I already explained it to you. Current government was installed on the backs of vocal nazi minority. They can't just say "OK, enough with this naming streets after nazi baby killers!" because they will get another armed Maidan/Coup.
They are like trumpers and republican party, exactly like that.
The governments in Ukraine are incredibly weak and susceptible to maidans.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Are you seriously that deep in this?

What do you mean by that? What he said is actually the history, that's exactly what happened.

The year is 2022, not the 1722. There are no "backsies" here in 21st century diplomacy. Putin is trying to relive the good ole days of early 20th century and before Europe,

You are parroting anti-russian propaganda tropes from ..... the last century.

He invaded Ukraine, this isn't propaganda! This is how diplomacy worked in Europe for hundreds of years, until tens of millions died in a pair of brutal wars stuffed with atrocities.

Ukraine is a nation, has a seat in the UN. Any attempt to deny that is propaganda. There are no buts.

 

[barbos]

He invaded Ukraine, this isn't propaganda! This is how diplomacy worked in Europe for hundreds of years, until tens of millions died in a pair of brutal wars stuffed with atrocities.

Ukraine is a nation, has a seat in the UN. Any attempt to deny that is propaganda. There are no buts.

Diplomacy does not work here, that's the problem.
And it does not work because of you.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

He invaded Ukraine, this isn't propaganda! This is how diplomacy worked in Europe for hundreds of years, until tens of millions died in a pair of brutal wars stuffed with atrocities.

Ukraine is a nation, has a seat in the UN. Any attempt to deny that is propaganda. There are no buts.

Diplomacy does not work here, that's the problem.

We saw what ignoring diplomacy led to in the 20th century. It was bad enough before that, but the barbarism mixed with technology scared the nations to all hell and formed the UN.

And it does not work because of you.

I'm flattered you think I have such influence. But the reality is, you didn't deny Ukraine is a nation. So you know it is a nation and its borders have been grossly violated for the second time. And all you can provide are buts to justify it. All the while talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Ukraine is enacting genocide against Russians. There won't be an insurgency, we'll be welcomed with flowers.

 

[barbos]

Ukraine is enacting genocide against Russians. There won't be an insurgency, we'll be welcomed with flowers.

Well, you place bunch of nazis with artillery at the border of Donetsk/Lugansk and this is what is gonna happen. And Ukrainian Government is complicit in that.

 

[barbos]

We saw what ignoring diplomacy led to in the 20th century.

Yes, and you are the one who is ignoring it.

 

[lpetrich]

From yesterday: Trump Refers to Russian Aggression Toward Ukraine as ‘Genius’ - The New York Times

As President Biden announced sanctions against Russia and warned of more if President Vladimir V. Putin did not withdraw his forces from Ukraine, former President Donald J. Trump on Tuesday praised Mr. Putin’s aggression as “genius” and called the Russian leader “very savvy” for describing the troops aligned on the Ukrainian border as peacekeepers.

...
Weeks after taking office, Mr. Trump brushed aside Mr. Putin’s human rights transgressions during an interview with Bill O’Reilly, then of Fox News.

“You got a lot of killers,” he said. “What, you think our country’s so innocent?”

...
In a statement released Tuesday morning, Mr. Trump said the Russian aggression toward Ukraine would not have happened if he were still president.

During the radio interview, Mr. Trump said he and Mr. Putin had discussed a potential invasion of Ukraine when Mr. Trump was in the White House. “I knew that he always wanted Ukraine. I used to talk to him about it,” Mr. Trump said. “I said, ‘You can’t do it. You’re not going to do it.’ But I could see that he wanted it. I used to ask him. We used to talk about it at length.”

Full Interview: President Trump with C&B from Mar-a-Lago

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, what went wrong was a rigged election and what went wrong is a candidate that shouldn’t be there and a man that has no concept of what he’s doing. I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, “This is genius.” Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine. Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful.

So, Putin is now saying, “It’s independent,” a large section of Ukraine. I said, “How smart is that?” And he’s gonna go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force… We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re gonna keep peace all right. No, but think of it. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy… I know him very well. Very, very well.

By the way, this never would have happened with us. Had I been in office, not even thinkable. This would never have happened. But here’s a guy that says, you know, “I’m gonna declare a big portion of Ukraine independent,” he used the word “independent,” “and we’re gonna go out and we’re gonna go in and we’re gonna help keep peace.” You gotta say that’s pretty savvy. And you know what the response was from Biden? There was no response. They didn’t have one for that. No, it’s very sad. Very sad.

...
I think he sees this opportunity. I knew that he always wanted Ukraine. I used to talk to him about it. I said, “You can’t do it. You’re not gonna do it.” But I could see that he wanted it. I used to ask him. We used to talk about it at length. I think nobody probably knows him better in terms of the discussions that we have or that we’re having this morning. So, I knew him very well. I got to know him. I got to know President Xi. By the way, China is gonna be next. You know, China is gonna —

CLAY: You think they’re gonna go after Taiwan?

PRESIDENT TRUMP: Oh, absolutely. Not with me, they wouldn’t have.

 

[Jayjay]

You think your vote means something.

Stalin said it isn't who votes but who counts the votes. That's certainly accurate of what's happening in Russia. I'm not sure how democracy would work in Russia right now given the fact that it's still a society that has never experienced capitalism and freedom. People would be lost, probably expect too much and then be disappointed because there is so much corruption and crime that have been the levers of power for all their lives. And no independent reporting either.

You are mistaken if you think that Putin wins elections because he is "counting" votes.
He really does have the votes. And it is your obnoxious treatment of Russia for over 30 years is what contributes to that. Stop fooling yourself that US paid opposition has support of the people. You are not popular in Russia in any sense of the word.

Putin may or may not have the votes, but we'll never know because Russia doesn't have free elections or free press. He certainly doesn't think he has the votes, or else he wouldn't have to stuff the ballot boxes, silence any dissenting media, or assassinate his critics.