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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

zorq said:
Besides, Bandera wasn't actually even a full fledged nazi. He was just helping the nazis fight ukraine's other repressive imperialist invader.

Some Ukranians regard him as a warrior for Ukranian independance, and he was. They want to celebrate that and they may even if it is complicated. But that still doesn't make Ukraine a nazi country.
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Dude read the damn article, on him.
West Ukraine was a part of Poland, so he fought poles to get his independence from. He did not have much chance to fight Soviet Union before germans occupied Ukraine. So he offered his services to them and his fight was mostly against poles and jews, women and children.
 
Meanwhile, General 200 (Syrsky) seems to confirm his nickname. Unknown number of ukrainian soldiers were killed in a single (or 2) ballistic missile strike while on training exercise.
Both russian and ukrainian official sources are silent. But it looks like casualties are huge, there were 1500 soldiers in the open space and russian army used ballistic missile with a cassette warhead. Ukrainians are searching for local(s) who might have given away information to russians. Some suggest that Zaluzhny himself informed russians.

Russian army hits military targets and ukrainian/NATO "army" hits bakeries in Donetsk.

By the way, interesting thought-factoid. These poor bastards were caught in the open by cassette bomblets which explode 10 meters above the ground. Natural instincts says to fall to the ground but I think standing up reduces your chances to get killed. Crouching is probably the best way to reduce cross-section.

And these poor bastards were about to be send to hold Avde-evka. Zelensky has to hold it in order to have a slim chance of getting $60bil from regime in Washington. Not looking good for you people.
And these 1500 men were most likely best ukrainian units regime in Kiev has, these are nazis from Azov regiment, etc.
It's typical for Ukro-Regime, especially under Zaluzhny to use best trained and equipped nazi-regiments to plug the holes.
Now that Zaluzhny is out, both Zelensky and Syskiy are less interested in wellbeing of nazi regiments. But Avde-evka is very important to Zelensky.
 
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barbos said:
zorq said:
If Ukraine was a Nazi country you would be able to point to something far more damning than a street name. But you can't
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So anything less than Nazi Germany is fine to you? I guess Nazi Italy is OK now.
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Just stop with your bizarre assertion that Ukrainians are Nazis. It's just preposterous. I don't think anyone here has bought into it. It was always just something Putin has claimed to justify his attack.

The fact that some Ukrainians are Nazis, prove nothing. Some people in any population will have extreme opinions. The fact that Ukrainian WW2 Nazis have been held up as heroes now also means nothing. Back in WW2, if you were a Ukrainian nationalist wanting to fight for Ukrainian national independence from Russia, there was only one horse you could back, Nazi Germany.

You are completely ignoring the context.

Ukraine doesn't have more of a problem with Nazis than anywhere else in Europe
 
barbos said:
zorq said:
If Ukraine was a Nazi country you would be able to point to something far more damning than a street name. But you can't
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So anything less than Nazi Germany is fine to you? I guess Nazi Italy is OK now.
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Nazis aren't reviled for their street names or any other iconography. They are reviled for their violent imperialism and their ethnic and minority persecution/purges. You have shown no legitimate reason for anyone to consider Ukraine a nazi state.

Russia is the violent imperialist purging ethnic Ukranians in the territory Russia is trying to steal right now. If anyone is the nazi state here it is Russia. And both you and Putin know it.
 
DrZoidberg said:
Just stop with your bizarre assertion that Ukrainians are Nazis. It's just preposterous. I don't think anyone here has bought into it. It was always just something Putin has claimed to justify his attack.
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In this regard, Barbos reminds me of the millions of people that were convinced that Saddam Hussein was in league with Al Queda. Bin Laden hated SH, considering him a western puppet slaughtering Muslims.

But the Bush administration kept hammering on that lie while the semi-official news agency Fox kept repeating anything that they were told to. And it worked.

The fact that it was easy for me to find out the truth lead me to believe that the Bush administration knew it to and was deliberately lying to the people for their own purposes.
Tom
 
TomC said:
DrZoidberg said:
Just stop with your bizarre assertion that Ukrainians are Nazis. It's just preposterous. I don't think anyone here has bought into it. It was always just something Putin has claimed to justify his attack.
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In this regard, Barbos reminds me of the millions of people that were convinced that Saddam Hussein was in league with Al Queda. Bin Laden hated SH, considering him a western puppet slaughtering Muslims.

But the Bush administration kept hammering on that lie while the semi-official news agency Fox kept repeating anything that they were told to. And it worked.

The fact that it was easy for me to find out the truth lead me to believe that the Bush administration knew it to and was deliberately lying to the people for their own purposes.
Tom
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Did he? I think the only lie was the weapons of mass destruction. But Saddam could have had them. It was certainly in character. And he had repeatedly used wmd's. And was a compulsive liar.

So I think it was an acceptable lie. It was good to get rid of Saddam.
 
DrZoidberg said:
Did he? I think the only lie was the weapons of mass destruction. But Saddam could have had them. It was certainly in character. And he had repeatedly used wmd's. And was a compulsive liar.

So I think it was an acceptable lie. It was good to get rid of Saddam.
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Maybe Danish media didn't cover all that, 20 years ago. But I was regularly watching Fox because my dad was in bad shape health wise. When I was visiting with him it's what he wanted to do.
Believe me, the highly educated and informed Muslims I knew had a raft of information putting the lie to nearly everything Bush administration was claiming.
Tom
 
TomC said:
DrZoidberg said:
Just stop with your bizarre assertion that Ukrainians are Nazis. It's just preposterous. I don't think anyone here has bought into it. It was always just something Putin has claimed to justify his attack.
Click to expand...
In this regard, Barbos reminds me of the millions of people that were convinced that Saddam Hussein was in league with Al Queda. Bin Laden hated SH, considering him a western puppet slaughtering Muslims.

But the Bush administration kept hammering on that lie while the semi-official news agency Fox kept repeating anything that they were told to. And it worked.
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The W Admin juxtapositioned Hussein with 9/11 and al Qaeda (they let the right-wing media fill in the gaps). They overemphasized the significance of the WMDs to the point of lying. Even Powell didn't get Hussein was bluffing because of that other four letter word nation on its border.

Russia is just flat out lying.
TomC said:
The fact that it was easy for me to find out the truth lead me to believe that the Bush administration knew it to and was deliberately lying to the people for their own purposes.
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Oh, they definitely had an agenda... and they had a plan too... odd that it was almost all completely wrong. Had they invaded in 2002, maybe W doesn't win in 2004.
 
DrZoidberg said:
TomC said:
DrZoidberg said:
Just stop with your bizarre assertion that Ukrainians are Nazis. It's just preposterous. I don't think anyone here has bought into it. It was always just something Putin has claimed to justify his attack.
Click to expand...
In this regard, Barbos reminds me of the millions of people that were convinced that Saddam Hussein was in league with Al Queda. Bin Laden hated SH, considering him a western puppet slaughtering Muslims.

But the Bush administration kept hammering on that lie while the semi-official news agency Fox kept repeating anything that they were told to. And it worked.

The fact that it was easy for me to find out the truth lead me to believe that the Bush administration knew it to and was deliberately lying to the people for their own purposes.
Tom
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Did he? I think the only lie was the weapons of mass destruction. But Saddam could have had them. It was certainly in character. And he had repeatedly used wmd's. And was a compulsive liar.
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There were lies, there was juxtaposition, there was incompetence. The W Admin was so bad, it is the only thing saving the Trump Admin from being default as being the worst Presidency in the last 150 years.
DrZoidberg said:
So I think it was an acceptable lie. It was good to get rid of Saddam.
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Well, sometimes it takes time to make the sausage. I'll let you know in 20 yea.... oh fuck me! Has it been 20 years already?! Wow. I'm getting old. Anyway... I'll let you know in another 20 years whether getting rid of Saddam was a net gain.
 
barbos said:
TomC said:
But it isn't NATO attacking anybody,
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I have a bridge you might be interested in purchasing.
Nazis are using NATO satellite data, NATO missiles. US pays salaries for to all nazi soldiers and whole nazi government.
NATO soldiers in the from of mercenaries are being deployed in Ukraine. It's an unprovoked NATO aggression against Russia.
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Doesn't matter what we are doing inside Ukraine as you shouldn't be there in the first place.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
barbos said:
TomC said:
But it isn't NATO attacking anybody,
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I have a bridge you might be interested in purchasing.
Nazis are using NATO satellite data, NATO missiles. US pays salaries for to all nazi soldiers and whole nazi government.
NATO soldiers in the from of mercenaries are being deployed in Ukraine. It's an unprovoked NATO aggression against Russia.
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Doesn't matter what we are doing inside Ukraine as you shouldn't be there in the first place.
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You should not be there. Russia has every right to be there.
 
Harry Bosch said:
repoman said:
I wonder what the betting line is for European troops officially fighting in Ukraine in the next year.
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I’d take that absurd bet right now. How much you want to put up? I do think that it’s at least 50-50 that Putler will attack additional Euro countries next year. They’ve said so many times.
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I don't think he wants more on his plate given how badly he's faring so far.
 
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