How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Harry Bosch]

To be fair though, you have demonstrated in this thread that you have faith in a lot of demonstrably nonsensical shit, so that's not particularly impressive or informative.

That is OK with me. You are already well-informed. I was not trying to impress or inform you. I was just stating my views.

I don't agree with you in the least. But I definitely appreciate you airing your views. You're not avoiding any posts and taking some fire. How many people in your area are leaning towards Russia rather than the west? India is very democratic. And also, a country that fiercely protects its borders. What is driving the anti-west opinions in India would you say?

 

[barbos]

What is driving the anti-west opinions in India would you say?

I don't think it's anti-west, it's anti-neocon.
You are now a small minority which are BSed by tiny minority comprised of MIC and other western neoliberal oligarchs who are scared that their reign is about to end.

 

[barbos]

The question is why you love Putin and hate Ukraine. Why the double standard? Are you afraid of other people enjoying freedom?

That is not correct. I am a right-winger supporting Narendra Modi (also an atheist Hindu who does not believe in existence of soul and does not mind beef eating). But NATO and its expansion is the reason for Russian attack on Ukraine. Now the Poland-Belarus border is heating up. Biden administration needs to wake up to NATO overreach.

Current retarded NATO secretary agreed with you
He literally said that. It's mind boggling why americans tolerate him. Maybe becasue they themselves are only slightly less dumber than him.

 

[barbos]

You included an incorrect word: "not". You're supporting the war monger Putin.

No, I am not. I am trying to put forward peace talks to save all, Ukrainians as well as Russians, even if that may not be liked by Western powers or NATO.

Putin isn't interested in a peace that leaves Ukraine not under Russian control. And Russia has demonstrated genocidal desires towards Ukraine (and has done so in the past: Holodomor.) What's there to talk about, exactly how they will be offering themselves up for killing??

That's what Western Propaganda says. In reality public opinion in Russia is much more radical than Putin and afraid that the old man will try to settle at the first opportunity.

 

[barbos]

American M.O. regarding Russia is very simple. They go to border countries and ask simple question: "Who here hates Russia?" Once they find these people, they give them bags of money, declare them democrats, freedom fighters, etc and eventually one way or another get them into power. And these people don't even have to really hate Russia, all they need to do is to play the role. You really think Baltic States governments hate Russia? Bullshit, they all have/had business in Russia.
But when you are offered bigger money and the only way into power they will "hate" Russia in public.
For fuck's sake, all their presidents old enough to be commies were, in fact, ..... fucking commies during USSR.
You think Elensky hates Russia? Bullshit! He was touring in Russia all his pre-president life making fun of Ukraine and entertaining Putin and his friends. There are tons of videos of his concerts.
Then all of a sudden he forgot russian and became ukrainian. Yeah right.

You don’t think people around Russia hates Russia because of all the oppression and manipulation by Russia?

Yes, that's what I think. The goal of US State Department is to find Russia haters and blow them out of proportion.
You are a victim of that strategy. Everything you believe is a Lie.

 

[barbos]

I think the west should sanction India by the same amount it is making off Russian oil plus 10% as a penalty. Same for any other country buying Russian oil and supporting their war machine.

We could use the funds to buy arms for Ukraine.

Назло маме отморожу уши

 

[barbos]

Russia is trying to bully Ukraine into defeat using missile attacks on the civilian population.

That's what western Propaganda tells you. In reality russian army is bullying Ukraine by exterminating their Army and power stations. This is perfectly legal way to conduct war. Ukro regime on the other side continues its terrorist attacks on Belgorod trying to paint Putin as weak and incapable to prevent that. Russia has no reason for terrorism. We are winning

So your attacks on Ukraine are legitimate conduct of a defensive war, but their counter attacks are illegal terrorism. Gotcha!

Well, when they attack russian infrastructure that's legal. But that's not what they do.
They indiscriminately shell civilian population in Belgorod (which despite lies of your government was not evacuated at all)
They did start all of this by "attacking" oil refineries, but when it did not impress anyone in Russia they concentrated on killing civilians. Meanwhile Russia finally responded with turning off power stations in Ukraine.

 

[barbos]

American M.O. regarding Russia is very simple. They go to border countries and ask simple question: "Who here hates Russia?" Once they find these people, they give them bags of money, declare them democrats, freedom fighters, etc and eventually one way or another get them into power. And these people don't even have to really hate Russia, all they need to do is to play the role. You really think Baltic States governments hate Russia? Bullshit, they all have/had business in Russia.

Projection. Because this is exactly what Russia has been doing for decades.

Stupidity and ignorance on your part.
It's a matter of record where your own (obviously former) puppets talks about their experience with your State Department. They literally say that.

 

[barbos]

The question is why you love Putin and hate Ukraine. Why the double standard? Are you afraid of other people enjoying freedom?

That is not correct. I am a right-winger supporting Narendra Modi (also an atheist Hindu who does not believe in existence of soul and does not mind beef eating). But NATO and its expansion is the reason for Russian attack on Ukraine. Now the Poland-Belarus border is heating up. Biden administration needs to wake up to NATO overreach.

??? Clearly Poland would have been invaded by Russia if it weren’t in NATO.

It took you 30 years to make Russia to invade Ukraine (who was not in NATO). By that rate Russia will invade France in a year 2300. I doubt Putin will live that long.
For the record, Russia "invaded" Ukraine WHEN they "were" tried to "join" NATO.

 

[aupmanyav]

I don't agree with you in the least. But I definitely appreciate you airing your views. You're not avoiding any posts and taking some fire. How many people in your area are leaning towards Russia rather than the west? India is very democratic. And also, a country that fiercely protects its borders. What is driving the anti-west opinions in India would you say?

A few Indians know or care about Russia, even lesser number know about Putin. For most Indians West is a land of opportunity. We do not hate West (which includes myself). There is no anti-West wave in India. India has no problem with any country (Western or Islamic) except China and Pakistan (We have a temporary disagreement with the current Prime Minister of Canada. I suppose the next Canadian election will clear it). But I do not like the expansion of Western and NATO influence which is angering Russia. I think the situation at the moment is very volatile and dangerous. There may be a few more people like me who think that Putin alone cannot be faulted for what is happening in Ukraine.

 

[aupmanyav]

That's what Western Propaganda says. In reality public opinion in Russia is much more radical than Putin and afraid that the old man will try to settle at the first opportunity.

God forbid (in a manner of saying).

It took you 30 years to make Russia to invade Ukraine (who was not in NATO). By that rate Russia will invade France in a year 2300. I doubt Putin will live that long.
For the record, Russia "invaded" Ukraine WHEN they "were" tried to "join" NATO.

The US/Russia rivalry is older than Vlad Putin. He was born only in 1952. Rivalries continue for a long time. In our part of the world, for many generations. It would not make any difference even if Putin is not there.

The focus on Ukraine has not allowed me to see what other topics are being discussed in IIDB. Let me have a look at them.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I don't agree with you in the least. But I definitely appreciate you airing your views. You're not avoiding any posts and taking some fire. How many people in your area are leaning towards Russia rather than the west? India is very democratic. And also, a country that fiercely protects its borders. What is driving the anti-west opinions in India would you say?

A few Indians know or care about Russia, even lesser number know about Putin. For most Indians West is a land of opportunity. We do not hate West (which includes myself). There is no anti-West wave in India. India has no problem with any country (Western or Islamic) except China and Pakistan (We have a temporary disagreement with the current Prime Minister of Canada. I suppose the next Canadian election will clear it). But I do not like the expansion of Western and NATO influence which is angering Russia. I think the situation at the moment is very volatile and dangerous. There may be a few more people like me who think that Putin alone cannot be faulted for what is happening in Ukraine.

Good post. I agree that the expansion of Nato is dangerous. It's too bad that the west didn't try harder to get closer to Russia after the fall of the USSR. Western Europe tried to. Nordstream. Economic ties with Russia. The west traded significantly with Russia. But it failed. Hard to imagine Europe opening up to Russia for a very long time. Yes, Nato expansion is dangerous. However, I don't know how else to stop Russian imperialism. I've said it many times, but I'm against war. But we aren't going to stop war until we find a way to stop or discourage large countries from invading smaller countries. How do we do that? Your approach seems to imply that smaller countries should just become defenseless and that alone will deter the aggressor. When in history has that worked against expansionist countries? Poland has many people that will fight bravely against Russia if it is attacked. However, in a war with Russia, they would be outnumbered 10 to 1. How could they remain sovereign against Russia on its own? Banding together with other liked minded countries equals the battlefield - discouraging Russia invasion. Russia hasn't attacked a single Nato country since Nato has been founded. I'm open to a better idea, but right now Nato banding together is what is preventing Russia from attacking further in Europe.

 

[Harry Bosch]

You included an incorrect word: "not". You're supporting the war monger Putin.

No, I am not. I am trying to put forward peace talks to save all, Ukrainians as well as Russians, even if that may not be liked by Western powers or NATO.

Putin isn't interested in a peace that leaves Ukraine not under Russian control. And Russia has demonstrated genocidal desires towards Ukraine (and has done so in the past: Holodomor.) What's there to talk about, exactly how they will be offering themselves up for killing??

That's what Western Propaganda says. In reality public opinion in Russia is much more radical than Putin and afraid that the old man will try to settle at the first opportunity.

I agree with you here. There are many in the west who hold onto the hope that most Russians want peace. That if Putler dies, his replacement will be open to talks. That's not what I'm seeing. I think that Russia is doubling down, fully organized and fully geared up for war. Sad.

 

[laughing dog]

That's what Western Propaganda says. In reality public opinion in Russia is much more radical than Putin and afraid that the old man will try to settle at the first opportunity.

God forbid (in a manner of saying).

It took you 30 years to make Russia to invade Ukraine (who was not in NATO). By that rate Russia will invade France in a year 2300. I doubt Putin will live that long.
For the record, Russia "invaded" Ukraine WHEN they "were" tried to "join" NATO.

The US/Russia rivalry is older than Vlad Putin. He was born only in 1952. Rivalries continue for a long time. In our part of the world, for many generations. It would not make any difference even if Putin is not there.

Really? If a Gorbachev were in power, there’d be no difference?

I do agree that Russia’s inferiority complex goes back centuries and that Putin is a perfect example of its consequences.

 

[aupmanyav]

Really? If a Gorbachev were in power, there’d be no difference?

Gorbachev wanted to be friends with West but US did not like it. To whom would they show their military might?

 

[Elixir]

Really? If a Gorbachev were in power, there’d be no difference?

Gorbachev wanted to be friends with West but US did not like it. To whom would they show their military might?

WUT? Y’all have been soaking up some weird propaganda. The US was Gorby’s biggest advocate. It was the Russian oligarchy that couldn’t afford to let him level the capitalist playing field.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I'll tell you what aupmanyav, while your opinions are so far off the mark as to be complete nonsense, you're a hell of a lot better at this than barbos ever was. But reality is still reality.

No country near or far from Russia is beholden to them to act in any particular manner. Sweden and Finland decided to join NATO. How's that for having NATO right on Russia's border? Does anyone besides barbos believe they joined because they were bamboozled by the US State Department?
Russia has intentionally targeted Ukrainian civilians since they first invaded Ukraine, all across Ukraine as far as Lviv, bombing schools, churches, and shopping areas. The murder and destruction during their failed attempt at taking Kyiv. Russia has taken thousands of Ukrainian children. What was their provocation for doing all this, for striking these nonmilitary targets?

Talk to them?
With these US weapons, may Ukraine now give as good as it has gotten.
Then we'll talk.

 

[SLD]

Really? If a Gorbachev were in power, there’d be no difference?

Gorbachev wanted to be friends with West but US did not like it. To whom would they show their military might?

And this justifies war?

 

[Elixir]

Really? If a Gorbachev were in power, there’d be no difference?

Gorbachev wanted to be friends with West but US did not like it. To whom would they show their military might?

And this justifies war?

Fictional rationale offered as justification for genocide. And there are over billion subjects. It is a global tragedy that so many people are under the thumb of a pretend democracy, promoting authoritarianism worldwide.
Luckily though, Aupy is, as TV&CC points out, even worse at Putapology than Babs.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Expansion of enemy influence. That’s a new excuse to invade a country that I hadn’t heard before!! How would you recommend the US lower its “influence” so as to not so offend our Soviet comrades?

That is a fact of life. Expansion of Chinese influence in Djibouti, Maldives, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, and Red Army moves in Tibet, worries India. In reply, we are trying to improve the capabilities of our armed forces. India stands fourth in the list of countries with strong armies after US, Russia, China.

Why do you have an army? You should just surrender like you are saying Ukraine should do. That's the path to peace. Your army will just make China uneasy and they will have to respond. See how easy it is to have peace and save lots of money too?