How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

I guess Ukraine is winning.

 

[ZiprHead]

I guess Ukraine is winning.

Well, they ain't losing.

It's coming up on three years now and all you've gotten is a tiny strip of eastern Ukraine and a shit ton of widowed women. You've demonstrated to the world the once feared and thought mighty Russian military is a paper tiger.

You keep complaining how Russia has been invaded, which is bullshit BTW, but all you've done is made it quite clear to the world that an invasion and takeover of Russia is actually quite doable. Thanks for that. It's much appreciated.

And, again

 

[barbos]

Well, they ain't losing.

Even MSM is starting disagree with that.

You keep complaining how Russia has been invaded, which is bullshit BTW, but all you've done is made it quite clear to the world that an invasion and takeover of Russia is actually quite doable.

That's BS and you know that. Your government was promising that Russia would disintegrate because of sanctions, then they were promising that Ukraine will win with your nullitary help (Javelines, Bradley, Abrams, ATACMS, F-16)
None of that worked. Your puppet regime is losing. And Europe is in deep shit becasue they cut themselves off russian energy.

 

[ZiprHead]

Well, they ain't losing.

Even MSM is starting disagree with that.

You keep complaining how Russia has been invaded, which is bullshit BTW, but all you've done is made it quite clear to the world that an invasion and takeover of Russia is actually quite doable.

That's BS and you know that. Your government was promising that Russia would disintegrate because of sanctions,

Never happened. Cite the government statement if you want to be believed.

then they were promising that Ukraine will win with your nullitary help (Javelines, Bradley, Abrams, ATACMS, F-16)

Never happened. Cite the government statement if you want to be believed.

None of that worked. Your puppet regime is losing. And Europe is in deep shit becasue they cut themselves off russian energy.

Really? Europe seems to have adjusted quite well to the lack of Russian energy. Germany is even complaining that they have a surplus of energy.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Ukraine is Russia

Yeah, nah.

See, you can tell; Ukraine has its own government and army and everything.

Like, if a place is part of a bigger place, then when the leader of the bigger place sends soldiers and tanks towards the major cities of the littler place, they are typically met by cheering crowds waving flags.

If the US Army go to Sacramento, they are welcomed by the locals, because California is part of the US.

If the Russian Army goes to Moscow, or Leningrad, or Vladivostok, they too are welcomed by the locals, because Moscow, Leningrad and Vladivostok are all part of Russia.

When the Russian Army tried to go to Kiev, the locals kicked their arses in a massively humiliating military defeat.

From this it becomes clear that Ukraine is not Russia, doesn't want to be Russia, and has the military might to tell Russia to go fuck themselves.

Seems to me that a lot of ordinary Russians would live longer and happier lives if Russia were to take that advice.

Great post! However, I wanted to beat Barbos to the punch and correct your spelling of the capital of Ukraine. It isn't Kiev, it's Kyiv.

 

[Harry Bosch]

The current plan Russia offers is following. Russia keeps all that we took plus the land we have not taken yet which are these Oblasts which voted to join Russia. Additional land ot top of that is a subject to negotiations. No NATO in/for Ukraine, none!
Plus ukrainian army gets smaller. That's absolute minimum to start negotiations.
But public opinion is that Odessa, Har'kov should be included into absolute minimum.

Why would Ukraine agree to the above? First off, in practical terms, Ukraine needs Odessa. I'm not sure that you understand how import Odessa is to the future of Ukraine. The west is moving away from trade with Russia. Ukraine will be able to pick up this slack. It's a win-win for the world. We can increase trade with Ukraine. In exchange, this will help Ukraine rebuild. Secondly, Ukraine doesn't want another war. If their army shrinks, fewer weapons, and no neutral partners, your side will invade again. There is no doubt of that. I'm sure that you'd agree with me. The only way to prevent future war with Russia is to create alliances that will prevent Russia from invading.

 

[barbos]

Why would Ukraine agree to the above?

Because they are near collapse.

First off, in practical terms, Ukraine needs Odessa.

Great, that will make them less nazi.

I'm not sure that you understand how import Odessa is to the future of Ukraine.

Oh. I understand. And you need to understand that I know about Odessa million times more than you do. I have been there, it's a russian city and it should be in Russia.

The only way to prevent future war with Russia is to create alliances that will prevent Russia from invading.

The only way to prevent war with Russia is to stop being US puppet and comply with russian demands.

 

[barbos]

Never happened. Cite the government statement if you want to be believed.

Russian Economy is in tatters (Obama)

 

[TV and credit cards]

When the Russian Army tried to go to Kiev, the locals kicked their arses in a massively humiliating military defeat.

Never happened.

Sent that one down the “memory hole” to the incinerator.

George Orwell intended '1984' as a warning, not as a 'How-to' guide.

People motivated by a constant fear of an enemy. Past events have no objective existence. Ignoring logic and refusing to engage in a rational argument. Relying on Dear Leader’s opinion and instincts.

But surely even barbos must be questioning Putin's instincts.

 

[bilby]

it's a russian city and it should be in Russia

Irredentism is fucking stupid, and went out of fashion in 1945, after causing two pointless European wars.

 

[Elixir]

But surely even barbos must be questioning Putin's instincts.

Yabut not out loud and certainly not in writing.

 

[ZiprHead]

Never happened. Cite the government statement if you want to be believed.

Russian Economy is in tatters (Obama)

You said "disintegrate". A tattered economy doesn't mean the country has disintegrated. A cite includes sources that can be confirmed. And Obama wasn't in office when the war started.

Try harder.

 

[barbos]

Never happened. Cite the government statement if you want to be believed.

Russian Economy is in tatters (Obama)

You said "disintegrate". A tattered economy doesn't mean the country has disintegrated. A cite includes sources that can be confirmed. And Obama wasn't in office when the war started.

You think we are stupid and can't read the room?
Of course your shitty government would not come to the journalists and say "Our plan is to destroy Russia through sanctions" They would make other people say it for them to keep plausible deniability. They are fucking lying scum.
Obama fucking started this war in 2014.

Try harder.

No, you try harder.

 

[barbos]

it's a russian city and it should be in Russia

Irredentism is fucking stupid, and went out of fashion in 1945, after causing two pointless European wars.

You know what is stupid? Banning russian language and culture in predominantly russian areas such as Odessa.
And do you know what is even more stupid? replacing russian monuments in russian city with nazi garbage.
Current regime in Kiev has no business holding to russian parts of Ukraine. They even have no business to holding to Ukraine part of Ukraine. They should keep their Galicia and be happy with their galician version of ukrainian and don't bother anyone with their nazi shit.

 

[barbos]

This is a hero of Regime in Kiev:

According to historian Grzegorz Rossoliński-Liebe, "Bandera's worldview was shaped by numerous far-right values and concepts including ultranationalism, fascism, racism, and antisemitism; by fascination with violence; by the belief that only war could establish a Ukrainian state; and by hostility to democracy, communism, and socialism. Like other young Ukrainian nationalists, he combined extremism with religion and used religion to sacralize politics and violence."[116] Historian Timothy Snyder described Bandera as a fascist who "aimed to make of Ukraine a one-party fascist dictatorship without national minorities".[54][nb 4] Historian John-Paul Himka writes that Bandera remained true to the fascist ideology to the end.[52] Ukrainian historian Andrii Portnov writes that Bandera remained a proponent of authoritarian and violent politics until his death.[117]

 

[barbos]

Historian Per Anders Rudling said that Bandera and his followers "advocated the selective breeding to create a 'pure' Ukrainian race",[13] and that "the OUN shared the fascist attributes of anti-liberalism, anti-conservatism, and anti-communism, an armed party, totalitarianism, antisemitism, Führerprinzip, and adoption of fascist greetings. Its leaders eagerly emphasized to Hitler and Ribbentrop that they shared the Nazi Weltanschauung and a commitment to a fascist New Europe."[118

 

[bilby]

it's a russian city and it should be in Russia

Irredentism is fucking stupid, and went out of fashion in 1945, after causing two pointless European wars.

You know what is stupid?

Invading a neighbouring country due to irredentist insanity.

And do you know what is even more stupid?

Getting your arses kicked trying, thereby demonstrating that not only do you no longer have the second most powerful army in the world, but rather have the second most powerful army in Ukraine.

Until Kursk was invaded, at which point you were shown to have the second most powerful army in Russia.

Making Russia a laughingstock on the world stage is pretty damn stupid. I am astonished that the Russian people haven't kicked Putin out for the shame and ignimony he has brought on your once feared and even respected nation.

You don't have to put up with his failures, nor with his pathetic attachment to the sunk cost fallacy that has extended his ten day "special military operation" into a three year war, with no end in sight.

Chuck the loser out, and replace him with someone who will spend money and effort on improving the lives of Russians, rather than on ending the lives of Russian soldiers in pursuit of an ignoble and unachievable cause.

Stepan Bandera died in 1959, so if the objective is to remove him from power, mission accomplished. You can send your soldiers home now. They have no further role in Ukraine. Well done, it took them minus 83 years to oust Bandera, which has to be some kind of record.

 

[barbos]

Stepan Bandera died in 1959, so if the objective is to remove him from power, mission accomplished

Vladimir Lenin died 100 years ago, does not affect your ilk tendency to have panties in a bunch over USSR.
And Lenin was not even a nazi and modern Russia pretty much forgot about him and socialism-communism.
In case of a nazi figure named Bandera, current regime in Kiev is way too enthusiastic to use him as some kind of hero of Ukraine.

 

[barbos]

Invading a neighbouring country due to irredentist insanity.

That would be stupid too, and we did not do it.

 

[Patooka]

Invading a neighbouring country due to irredentist insanity.

That would be stupid too, and we did not do it.

Someone clearly doesn't know how to read a map. And your Schrodinger-esque "Ukraine isn't part of Russia except when it is", horseshit is fucking tiresome. I doubt even you believe the shit you are shovelling.