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How should west respond to potential (likely) U.S. invasion of Venezuela?

 
 
 
All presidents get a sense of power through military force, Trump is an extreme.

Bush and Neo Cons thinking they would liberate Iraq like the Allies did France.

Obama got jazzed getting Bin Laden. He bragged about killing more terrorists than any other president.

LBJ and his administration outright lied about what was going on in Vietnam. Even when on TV ebnry day people saw what was going on. Increasing troops while as the Pentagon Papers showed the military by around 1966 concluded there was no militray solution.

Congress has long ceded the power to use militray force the president. All presidents and admonitions lie and shade the truth. It is a matter of degree.

In 2011, Obama authorized the deployment of about 100 U.S. military advisers to central Africa to assist regional forces in combating the LRA, a notoriously violent rebel group led by Joseph Kony. The reasons for this deployment were:

Combating atrocities The LRA had murdered, raped, and kidnapped tens of thousands of civilians, mostly children, across Central Africa. The mission was framed as a humanitarian effort to end the group's reign of terror.

Providing training and assistance The special operations forces provided training, advice, and assistance to local partner nations, but were not intended to engage in direct combat except for self-defense.

Upholding national security interests Obama stated that the deployment served U.S. national security and foreign policy interests by supporting regional security and efforts to remove Joseph Kony from the battlefield.
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Under President Bill Clinton, the United States conducted several notable missile strikes, primarily in retaliation for terrorist attacks and as part of military actions in Iraq and the Balkans
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Operation Infinite Reach (1998)

Target: On August 20, 1998, the U.S. military launched simultaneous cruise missile strikes against targets in Afghanistan and Sudan in response to al-Qaeda's bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.

Afghanistan: The strikes hit training camps believed to be used by Osama bin Laden's terrorist network.

Sudan: The target in Sudan was the Al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory in Khartoum. The Clinton administration claimed the plant was being used to produce chemical weapons for al-Qaeda. However, subsequent reports cast doubt on the intelligence linking the factory to bin Laden or chemical weapons, and the U.S. later backed away from its initial claims.

Operations in Iraq (1993, 1998)

1993 Baghdad strike: In June 1993, Clinton ordered a cruise missile strike on the Iraqi Intelligence Service headquarters in Baghdad. This was in retaliation for an Iraqi plot to assassinate former President George H. W. Bush during a visit to Kuwait.

Operation Desert Fox (1998): In December 1998, the U.S. and the United Kingdom launched a four-day bombing campaign against Iraqi targets. The action was aimed at punishing Saddam Hussein's regime for its refusal to cooperate with U.N. weapons inspectors.

The Sudan pharmaceutical company attack.
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Context of the Attack

Retaliation for Embassy Bombings:

The missile strikes were a response to the August 7, 1998, terrorist bombings of the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, which were linked to al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden.
Operation Infinite Reach:
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The strikes on al-Shifa and alleged al-Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan were codenamed Operation Infinite Reach.
Controversy and Dissent:
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The decision to bomb al-Shifa was controversial, with critics arguing the U.S. lacked sufficient evidence of its connection to chemical weapons and that Clinton may have been trying to distract from domestic issues.

Target and Justification

U.S. Justification:

President Clinton stated there was "convincing evidence" that the factory was involved in the production of chemical weapons, specifically a precursor element for a nerve gas, linking it to bin Laden's terrorist network.

Sudanese and Independent Claims:
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Sudanese officials and later tests by independent labs found no evidence of chemical weapons production at al-Shifa, a factory that produced essential medicines for the country.

Aftermath

Factory Destruction:
The al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory was destroyed in the attack, leading to the loss of its production capacity for essential Sudanese medicines.
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bilby said:
steve_bank said:
It is a war.
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No, it fucking isn't.
steve_bank said:
I think over many admonitions we have been way too reserved on drug cartels. They are legitimate targets for our military as I see it.
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Then you need an eye test. Crime is not something you can declare war on. Crime is not a country. And gangsters are not soldiers, except in their dreams.
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If they are actually doing the work of the Venezuelan government they become legitimate targets of war. That being said, I wouldn't trust his target identification one bit, nor would I trust they are actually acting at the will of the government rather than simply have subverted it to some degree.
 
So Trump is busy expanding this war, now sending a carrier battle group, and B-1 bombers to the area.

abcnews.go.com

B-1 bombers fly over Caribbean in another show of force against Venezuela

Two B-1 bombers flew over the Caribbean in latest show of force as U.S. military operations in the region continue to grow.
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com

I’m no fan of Maduro, but Trump has gone loco.

These attacks are out and out war crimes. Duterte is being prosecuted for less.
 

Obviously these strikes have nothing to do with stopping drug trafficking. You’d have to be incredibly stupid to believe that bullshit. They’re looking for any excuse to justify going to war against Venezuela.

This will not end well.
 
But London is a caliphate and we are next of we don’t bow to the Christofascists.
 
Something's up:
https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/aviation-news/us-issues-security-notam-for-venezuelan-airspace/

On Friday, 21 November 2025, the US FAA issued a security NOTAM cautioning civil aircraft operators about potential dangers in Venezuelan airspace. The FAA says the NOTAM is the result of increased GNSS interference in Venezuelan airspace and military drills beginning in September. US operators must now provide 72 hours prior notice to the FAA before flying through Venezuela.
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  • Wow
Reactions: SLD
SLD said:
Shadowy Man said:
SLD said:
The drumbeat for war continues.



Once again Jon Stewart nails it..
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They make it so easy.
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Oh it will be loads of fun. Trust me. I’m sure they’ll rebuild themselves with oil money so we won’t have to. They’ll greet us with flower bombs instead of real bombs.
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You act as if the invasion of Iraq didn’t solve all of America’s gas price issues already.
 
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Reactions: SLD
SLD said:
Trump just refused to rule out a ground invasion of Venezuela. Said Maduro’s days are numbered. Fuck me.

www.nbcnews.com

Trump doesn't rule out troops in Venezuela, says President Nicolás Maduro's 'days are numbered'

In a wide-ranging interview with Politico, Trump also said Russia has the upper hand in negotiations over its war with Ukraine and called European leaders "weak."
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
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Well, he has his silly silly FIFA Peace Prize. What does he need to care about starting a war now?
 
It is interesting because this thread title is "how should west respond to...," but no one has really covered that aspect that much anyway. The vast majority of the thread content is about the impending nature of things Trump says about it and his concrete advancements toward what seems like a war. It could be pressure and a way to make Venezuela implode and it could also serve as a distraction. It could turn into air support and CIA special ops plus a coup d'etat.

That said, are we not addressing the "how should [the] west respond..." because the US is leader of the West and when it does imperialism there isn't much other countries can do within the West? When you look at what the US did to Iraq and false justification for that war, it didn't seem effective for any country in the West to try to do anything about it. I mean, some countries refused to take part and some other small handful of countries labeled Dick Cheney a war criminal, but there wasn't a massive effective opposition. Compare to Russia's invasion of Ukraine: there is a huge opposition and economic consequence. Is none of this discussed simply because it is obvious and nothing more to say about it?
 
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
the US is leader of the West
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Not really. The US is the most militarily and economically powerful of the West, but nobody in the West outside the US actually follows the American lead, unless it's what they wanted to do anyway.

Your wider point is correct; There's not much the rest of the West can do to stop the US going where she will. But that doesn't make her a 'leader', unless and until others follow.
 
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:

Trump says U.S. seized oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela​


“Shippers will likely be much more cautious and hesitant about loading Venezuelan crude going forward,” said Matt Smith, an oil analyst at Kpler.
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This looks like he's trying to make them implode. He closed the airspace and not allowing trade. This is siege warfare without the violence (yet).
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He is trying to goad them into attacking us so he can have his casus belli.
 
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