How should west respond to Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

Speaking of Borat, GB is cancelling their program of housing ukrainian refugees.
Many ukranians say "good ridddance!" Apparenlty this program attracted certan types of brits with "great garden" attitude. They were treating ukraininas as a third world country idiots.
To be fair, some ukrainian refugees annoy their "hosts" too. Poles are pissed off at rich refugees which drive porshes back and forth to Ukraine. Germans complained to that too I remember.

They're still angels compared to fucking Russians.

Says who?

Says me. Can't you read?

You are ignorant nobody, hence nobody.

 

[Tigers!]

Speaking of Borat, GB is cancelling their program of housing ukrainian refugees.
Many ukranians say "good ridddance!" Apparenlty this program attracted certan types of brits with "great garden" attitude. They were treating ukraininas as a third world country idiots.
To be fair, some ukrainian refugees annoy their "hosts" too. Poles are pissed off at rich refugees which drive porshes back and forth to Ukraine. Germans complained to that too I remember.

They're still angels compared to fucking Russians.

Says who?

Says me. Can't you read?

You are ignorant nobody, hence nobody.

 

[barbos]

The only option is to give Ukraine everything it needs

OK, He needs a millon interceptor missiles and trillion dollars.

 

[barbos]

Speaking of Borat, GB is cancelling their program of housing ukrainian refugees.
Many ukranians say "good ridddance!" Apparenlty this program attracted certan types of brits with "great garden" attitude. They were treating ukraininas as a third world country idiots.
To be fair, some ukrainian refugees annoy their "hosts" too. Poles are pissed off at rich refugees which drive porshes back and forth to Ukraine. Germans complained to that too I remember.

They're still angels compared to fucking Russians.

Says who?

Says me. Can't you read?

You are ignorant nobody, hence nobody.

View attachment 55440

Yeah, you Mission-accomplished Iraq real good.

 

[barbos]

The problem is the casualties would be horrific for Russia regardless.

There could be casualties for many, not just for Ukraine and Russia. Who knows?

Yep. The greatest threat to the world today is Russia. It's not Iran, Houtiland, or even China/Taiwan. It's Russia. Therefore, the entire world should be doing something to encourage Russia to return to negotiation table. Ukraine has stated over and over and over that they are open to cease fire and peace talks. Russia is not.

Well the problem is what could the rest of the world do to “encourage” Putin to end the war? The only way I see is to completely stop buying Russian oil and gas, and to supply Ukraine with significantly more equipment and supplies to fight them. Right now, Europe is giving more money to Russia than it is giving aid to Ukraine. India is totally reliant on Russian oil to keep its energy bills down. Sanctions aren’t working and are largely cosmetic. Sanctions almost never work.

In truth nothing will work short of revolution. The only thing that will change his mind will be when some enterprising army officer puts a bullet through his skull. Putin has staked his future and life on a total victory. He can’t back down. He can’t negotiate. In 4 1/2 years of war he hasn’t even hinted at a negotiated compromise. To do so could be fatal for him.

No. The only option is to give Ukraine everything it needs. Give them a huge amount of military aid. Perhaps even send a few soldiers over there. Definitely allow them to train and raise forces in places like Poland. Maybe even make them part of NATO - at least their western portion just for fucks sake. What’s Putin going to do? Go to war?

Biden’s aid was too piecemeal. The west totally underestimated Ukraine. They were afraid to give Ukraine aid because they thought it would be useless. Later we didn’t give them nearly enough to press home their offensive. We have far more Bradley’s we could have given them and should have. They’ve proven highly effective. We should have realized almost from the get go how much this war was eating through high level supplies of important things like Patriot missiles and increased our production immediately. Now it will something like 2029 before our production has been ramped up to supply them what they need.

WRT Taiwan, that may have been the silver lining in this war. Xi has watched it carefully and our response. He’s likely not going to invade now because he’s seen the heavy cost that Russia has paid and to a lesser extent the U.S. has paid for attacking Iran. These two lessons may actually protect Taiwan far more than more military aid to them will. Although we do need to ensure that they have enough to defend themselves. But of course with this stupid America First president and policy, we could be emboldening an attack. That’s why it is so essential to supply and support Ukraine. A loss in Ukraine means a likely war in Taiwan, and that will have huge economic impact on the United States as well.

Just give these clowns nukes.

 

[barbos]

 

[barbos]

 

[Harry Bosch]

You've never explained why fighting against Russian imperialism will destroy Russia. Canada hasn't invaded any countries in a 100 years; they haven't been destroyed. Why are Russians such doomsayers?

 

[TV and credit cards]

Russian forces appear to be actively interfering with Ukrainian efforts to provide food to residents of occupied Oleshky, Kherson Oblast (southeast of Kherson City and on the left bank of the Dnipro River), threatening to prolong and intensify an already dire humanitarian crisis.

 

[SLD]

The problem is the casualties would be horrific for Russia regardless.

There could be casualties for many, not just for Ukraine and Russia. Who knows?

Yep. The greatest threat to the world today is Russia. It's not Iran, Houtiland, or even China/Taiwan. It's Russia. Therefore, the entire world should be doing something to encourage Russia to return to negotiation table. Ukraine has stated over and over and over that they are open to cease fire and peace talks. Russia is not.

Well the problem is what could the rest of the world do to “encourage” Putin to end the war? The only way I see is to completely stop buying Russian oil and gas, and to supply Ukraine with significantly more equipment and supplies to fight them. Right now, Europe is giving more money to Russia than it is giving aid to Ukraine. India is totally reliant on Russian oil to keep its energy bills down. Sanctions aren’t working and are largely cosmetic. Sanctions almost never work.

In truth nothing will work short of revolution. The only thing that will change his mind will be when some enterprising army officer puts a bullet through his skull. Putin has staked his future and life on a total victory. He can’t back down. He can’t negotiate. In 4 1/2 years of war he hasn’t even hinted at a negotiated compromise. To do so could be fatal for him.

No. The only option is to give Ukraine everything it needs. Give them a huge amount of military aid. Perhaps even send a few soldiers over there. Definitely allow them to train and raise forces in places like Poland. Maybe even make them part of NATO - at least their western portion just for fucks sake. What’s Putin going to do? Go to war?

Biden’s aid was too piecemeal. The west totally underestimated Ukraine. They were afraid to give Ukraine aid because they thought it would be useless. Later we didn’t give them nearly enough to press home their offensive. We have far more Bradley’s we could have given them and should have. They’ve proven highly effective. We should have realized almost from the get go how much this war was eating through high level supplies of important things like Patriot missiles and increased our production immediately. Now it will something like 2029 before our production has been ramped up to supply them what they need.

WRT Taiwan, that may have been the silver lining in this war. Xi has watched it carefully and our response. He’s likely not going to invade now because he’s seen the heavy cost that Russia has paid and to a lesser extent the U.S. has paid for attacking Iran. These two lessons may actually protect Taiwan far more than more military aid to them will. Although we do need to ensure that they have enough to defend themselves. But of course with this stupid America First president and policy, we could be emboldening an attack. That’s why it is so essential to supply and support Ukraine. A loss in Ukraine means a likely war in Taiwan, and that will have huge economic impact on the United States as well.

Just give these clowns nukes.

If I had been president I would have in 2022.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I guess we can say with certainty that the US not getting involved was not the wrong decision. Russia, unable to actually defeat Ukraine, is not on the verge of invading the rest of Europe.

I never bought the line that 600 million Europeans needed 325 million Americans to defend them from 150 million Russians.

Jason: you've stated many times that you don't like NATO. Is it that you don't like America in nato? No nato country has been invaded since Nato's inception. The only way for small countries to avoid being invaded by larger imperialistic countries like Russia is for them to form mutual defense alliances. I put the odds of Russia attacking a nato country at 50-50 over the next 12 months. But, IMO, this is more due to desperation from Putin, and perceived weakness being demonstrated by Trump.

 

[ZiprHead]

The “Freedom of Russia” resistance movement has destroyed more than 10,000 metric tons of crude oil and disrupted the operation of certain elements of the railway logistics system used to transport the Russian Federation’s strategic resources and military cargo.

According to Ukrinform, the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense reported this on Facebook.

All participants in the operation are safe, the Main Intelligence Directorate assured.

As noted by intelligence officials, Operation “Barrel” demonstrated that even on its own territory, Russia cannot guarantee the security of its logistics routes...

“Freedom of Russia” resistance movement carries out large-scale operation behind enemy lines, causing over USD 10 M in damages

 

[barbos]

You've never explained why fighting against Russian imperialism will destroy Russia. Canada hasn't invaded any countries in a 100 years; they haven't been destroyed. Why are Russians such doomsayers?

There is no russian impearialism.

 

[barbos]

The problem is the casualties would be horrific for Russia regardless.

There could be casualties for many, not just for Ukraine and Russia. Who knows?

Yep. The greatest threat to the world today is Russia. It's not Iran, Houtiland, or even China/Taiwan. It's Russia. Therefore, the entire world should be doing something to encourage Russia to return to negotiation table. Ukraine has stated over and over and over that they are open to cease fire and peace talks. Russia is not.

Well the problem is what could the rest of the world do to “encourage” Putin to end the war? The only way I see is to completely stop buying Russian oil and gas, and to supply Ukraine with significantly more equipment and supplies to fight them. Right now, Europe is giving more money to Russia than it is giving aid to Ukraine. India is totally reliant on Russian oil to keep its energy bills down. Sanctions aren’t working and are largely cosmetic. Sanctions almost never work.

In truth nothing will work short of revolution. The only thing that will change his mind will be when some enterprising army officer puts a bullet through his skull. Putin has staked his future and life on a total victory. He can’t back down. He can’t negotiate. In 4 1/2 years of war he hasn’t even hinted at a negotiated compromise. To do so could be fatal for him.

No. The only option is to give Ukraine everything it needs. Give them a huge amount of military aid. Perhaps even send a few soldiers over there. Definitely allow them to train and raise forces in places like Poland. Maybe even make them part of NATO - at least their western portion just for fucks sake. What’s Putin going to do? Go to war?

Biden’s aid was too piecemeal. The west totally underestimated Ukraine. They were afraid to give Ukraine aid because they thought it would be useless. Later we didn’t give them nearly enough to press home their offensive. We have far more Bradley’s we could have given them and should have. They’ve proven highly effective. We should have realized almost from the get go how much this war was eating through high level supplies of important things like Patriot missiles and increased our production immediately. Now it will something like 2029 before our production has been ramped up to supply them what they need.

WRT Taiwan, that may have been the silver lining in this war. Xi has watched it carefully and our response. He’s likely not going to invade now because he’s seen the heavy cost that Russia has paid and to a lesser extent the U.S. has paid for attacking Iran. These two lessons may actually protect Taiwan far more than more military aid to them will. Although we do need to ensure that they have enough to defend themselves. But of course with this stupid America First president and policy, we could be emboldening an attack. That’s why it is so essential to supply and support Ukraine. A loss in Ukraine means a likely war in Taiwan, and that will have huge economic impact on the United States as well.

Just give these clowns nukes.

If I had been president I would have in 2022.

You would have been evaporated president then.

 

[barbos]

Russian forces appear to be actively interfering with Ukrainian efforts to provide food to residents of occupied Oleshky, Kherson Oblast (southeast of Kherson City and on the left bank of the Dnipro River), threatening to prolong and intensify an already dire humanitarian crisis.

Lying pieces of shit. Oleshky is under russsian control (russian side of the Dnepr river) and it is ukrainin nazi regime who strikes at communication with that town.
Fucking scum in Kiev can't event come up with slightly coherernent propaganda shit. Thery fucking admit that they attack the transport. But they say it's russian millitary when in reality it is food.

Having said that, according to Sharij, People (around 2 thousands) who have not left the town can not leave because they have no russian documents. He implies that these are mostly pro-ukraine and mostly old folks who refused to get russian citizenship. And now Fuhrer in Kiev is trying to starve them to death.

 

[barbos]

No nato country has been invaded since Nato's inception.

That's because NATO does all the invading.

 

[barbos]

Why are Russians such doomsayers?

Beause you fucking scum keep invading us.
Napoleon, Hitler, France again, Poles, Swedes, british, Americans, even fucking czechs.

 

[aupmanyav]

Just give these clowns nukes.

At some point of time Iran will certainly have nukes.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Russian forces struck central Sumy with four guided aerial bombs (KABs) on Tuesday, Sept. 29, hitting a school during classes and a residential area. According to preliminary reports, two people were killed and at least six injured, including three children, as the rescue operations continue.

Those who would bomb children while class is in session should be executed, the entire chain of command.

 

[bilby]

Something I posted on another forum:

In 1939, Britain and France went to war to protect Poland from the German and Soviet Union invasion that abrogated the Polish sovereignty the British and French had underwritten.

At that time, the Soviets and Germans were allied with each other against Poland, under the terms of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

Neither Britain nor France saw Germany or the USSR as existential threats to themselves. They acted in accordance with their duty as underwriters of Polish independence.

By the end of 1941, the situation was radically different, with France defeated and Britain under clear existential threat. Britain needed any help she could get. The Japanese attack on the USA, and then the German betrayal of the USSR, led to both the US and the Soviet Union becoming allies of the British, in a war whose aim had radically shifted from the restoration of Poland, to the destruction of the Third Reich, Imperial Japan, and Fascist Italy, and the liberation of the vast territories they had by then invaded.

Poland and the rest of Eastern Europe was shamefully abandoned to the USSR, from whose yoke she was not freed until the 1990s.

That the US and Britain did not persue Polish independence in 1945 is understandable; War against the USSR in 1945 was undesirable on a huge number of levels, and the war aim of 1939 a distant memory, hidden behind the vast destruction that had been wreaked across the whole of Europe.

But to once again abandon those countries that were abandoned to Russia from 1945 to 1990, including not only Poland and other Warsaw Pact nations, but also the former Soviet Republics of Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and Ukraine, would be a further betrayal of a Western European and British historical duty to protect their independence - a protection that is today in the strategic interest of both the EU and the UK, both economically, as free trade is beneficial to all parties; And militarily, as a buffer zone between Putin's armies and German, French (and ultimately even British) territory.

The twin threats to Europe that existed in 1939, the Third Reich and the USSR, have both now been eliminated. But neither Russian expansionism nor Western European fascism are completely vanquished.

Defending Ukraine and the rest of Eastern Europe against Russian irredentism, and the whole of Europe against resurgent ultra-nationalism, are an ongoing (and likely eternal) duty for all who value freedom and prosperity over dictatorship and squalor.

We have both a moral imperative, and a strategic interest, in giving Ukraine all the assistance we can, not only to defeat and repel the current Russian invasion, but also to become a liberal democracy with strong protections against corruption, so she can become a prosperous trading partner for the rest of the free world.

The world needs to see, once again, that invasion and subjugation of neighbouring countries is intolerable, and demands resolute, timely, and unstinting action to ensure that the invader does not profit from his agression.

This is not somebody else's problem. It's our problem. And until we address it, the cost of addressing it will just keep rising.

In 1936, the French and British could have easily occupied the Rhineland to prevent the militarisation of that region. In 1938, they could have made a stand against the occupation of the Sudetenland, instead of signing the craven Munich Agreement. But they didn't act until it was too late, and the cost of defeating the expansionist dictator in Berlin became astronomical.

Let us not allow the cost of defeating the expansionist dictator in Moscow to become similarly inflated.