How Will the US Deal with the Black Muslim Police Officer Who Allegedly Shot and Killed an Unarmed White Woman?

[Crazy Eddie]

You have simply decided that is was preplanned

No, I've DEDUCED that it was pre-planned, since it is unrealistic to assume that Loehman resorted to lethal force as a reaction to Rice's actions. Again, this is because Loehman did not have visual contact with Rice long enough to assess the threat or the nature thereof or make any rational decision on how to deal with it. 1.2 seconds is simply not long enough for that to have occurred. This means -- by definition -- that the decision to shoot Rice had to have been made BEFORE Loehman got out of the car. Since the car was in motion until almost the instant he got out of it, that means he had made that decision while the car was still approaching the Gazeebo, when Loehman definitely couldn't see Rice clearly or tell what he was doing.

Cops don't just go decide to shoot someone

Except when they do.

In this case, they apparently decided that Tamir Rice was a threat based on the 9/11 call alone and decided to "eliminate the threat" long before they actually had eyes on him. If Rice had been armed with a REAL gun, or if he had been the teenaged hoodlum with warrants and a rap sheet that they assumed him to be, his case wouldn't have even made the evening news, and their initial highly prejudiced assessment of his threat status would have been accepted without question by just about everyone.

And so it is, also, with Justine Damond. If she had been a 60 year old black woman or a 12 year old black girl, nobody would have cared. If she had been a black teenaged boy with a recent suspension for fighting in the lunch room, you and everyone else would have claimed he was "no angel" and probably had it coming. If he'd been a 30 year old black man trying to approach the police car to ask for help, you would be telling us how he was probably trying to distract the police so they wouldn't find his weed stash and how approaching a police car in the middle of the night is supsicious behavior and they were RIGHT to shoot him because he clearly was a potential threat.

Hell, you're sitting here claiming that "cops don't just go decide to shoot someone" when this is EXACTLY what happened to Justine Damond!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No, I've DEDUCED that it was pre-planned, since it is unrealistic to assume that Loehman resorted to lethal force as a reaction to Rice's actions. Again, this is because Loehman did not have visual contact with Rice long enough to assess the threat or the nature thereof or make any rational decision on how to deal with it. 1.2 seconds is simply not long enough for that to have occurred.

Maybe you think slow.

He saw a guy he was approaching pulling a gun on him. He reacted. There was enough time for that.

That makes an awful lot more sense than for some strange reason they set out to murder Rice, not knowing that he would provide a defense in the form of a replica gun. Your theory doesn't pass the laugh test. Police know enough about investigative technique that if they want to murder somebody they'll probably get away with it unless they are the logical suspect. Why would they take such a poor approach to murder?

And so it is, also, with Justine Damond. If she had been a 60 year old black woman or a 12 year old black girl, nobody would have cared. If she had been a black teenaged boy with a recent suspension for fighting in the lunch room, you and everyone else would have claimed he was "no angel" and probably had it coming. If he'd been a 30 year old black man trying to approach the police car to ask for help, you would be telling us how he was probably trying to distract the police so they wouldn't find his weed stash and how approaching a police car in the middle of the night is supsicious behavior and they were RIGHT to shoot him because he clearly was a potential threat.

Hell, you're sitting here claiming that "cops don't just go decide to shoot someone" when this is EXACTLY what happened to Justine Damond!

I don't think anyone decided to shoot her in the first place. I think that was a case of startled with their finger on the trigger.

And the reason people care about Justine Damond is that she appears to have been completely innocent.

 

[laughing dog]

And the reason people care about Justine Damond is that she appears to have been completely innocent.

As did Tamir Rice and Philandro Castile.

 

[Toni]

And the reason people care about Justine Damond is that she appears to have been completely innocent.

As did Tamir Rice and Philandro Castile.

Yeah, but Tamir Rice and Philandro Castille weren't white.

White definitely ups the 'appears completely innocent' quotient quite a bit. Then, you've gotta figure some boost for being pretty and blonde. And her foreign accent was one of the good ones. Didn't sound brown at all....

 

[Arctish]

Maybe you think slow.

He saw a guy he was approaching pulling a gun on him. He reacted. There was enough time for that.

He couldn't have seen that.

1. He was approaching from the side at a high rate of speed. He did not have a clear view of Rice's waistband or his hands. All Loehmann saw was Rice walking toward the road.

2. Rice wasn't drawing the pellet gun. We can see that clearly in the video.

That makes an awful lot more sense than for some strange reason they set out to murder Rice, not knowing that he would provide a defense in the form of a replica gun. Your theory doesn't pass the laugh test. Police know enough about investigative technique that if they want to murder somebody they'll probably get away with it unless they are the logical suspect. Why would they take such a poor approach to murder?

You're trying to brush away evidence of second degree murder by saying it doesn't fit the description of first degree murder.

And so it is, also, with Justine Damond. If she had been a 60 year old black woman or a 12 year old black girl, nobody would have cared. If she had been a black teenaged boy with a recent suspension for fighting in the lunch room, you and everyone else would have claimed he was "no angel" and probably had it coming. If he'd been a 30 year old black man trying to approach the police car to ask for help, you would be telling us how he was probably trying to distract the police so they wouldn't find his weed stash and how approaching a police car in the middle of the night is supsicious behavior and they were RIGHT to shoot him because he clearly was a potential threat.

Hell, you're sitting here claiming that "cops don't just go decide to shoot someone" when this is EXACTLY what happened to Justine Damond!

I don't think anyone decided to shoot her in the first place. I think that was a case of startled with their finger on the trigger.

And the reason people care about Justine Damond is that she appears to have been completely innocent.

As did Tamir Rice and Philandro Castile.

Indeed.

 

[RavenSky]

Maybe you think slow.

You are the one who is thinking "slow"

He saw a guy he was approaching pulling a gun on him..

Or, to be more accurate, spouting fucking untrue bullshit like this.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Maybe you think slow.

He saw a guy he was approaching pulling a gun on him...

From the window of a moving car that was racing towards him at high speed across an unpaved surface.

This 1) doesn't explain why the car was racing towards him across the grass and 2) isn't consistent with his testimony, in which he claims he saw Rice reach for his weapon AFTER he got out of the car (in fact, he claims he ordered Rice to drop his weapon and that he shot him for failing to obey his commands). Loehman's version of events doesn't make sense and is clearly a fabrication, and also fails to explain the car's movements. His (and his partner's) judgement that the threat needed to be aggressively eliminated would be consistent with his actions, however.

That makes an awful lot more sense than for some strange reason they set out to murder Rice

They set out to "eliminate the threat." They believed -- because they had been told -- that Rice was armed and dangerous. Their actions prior to the shooting are consistent with a conscious choice to engage with quick and decisive force before their target had a chance to respond.

Police know enough about investigative technique that if they want to murder somebody they'll probably get away with it unless they are the logical suspect. Why would they take such a poor approach to murder?

Because despite what you are trying to claim, they knew they would get away with it. And they were right: neither of them were prosecuted for murder, and neither of them will ever stand trial for the shooting. If their attack on Rice hadn't been captured on camera, they never even would have been disciplined for it.

I don't think anyone decided to shoot her in the first place. I think that was a case of startled with their finger on the trigger...

While it was drawn from its holster, with its safety off, and pointed directly at Justine Damond.

Seems legit.

And the reason people care about Justine Damond is that she appears to have been completely innocent.

Because having even a single verifiable character flaw or wrongdoing necessarily means you deserve to be killed on sight be a police officer whenever he deems you a threat.

 

[RavenSky]

And the reason people care about Justine Damond is that she appears to have been completely innocent.

Because having even a single verifiable character flaw or wrongdoing necessarily means you deserve to be killed on sight be a police officer whenever he deems you a threat.

Keep in mind, neither Loren nor Derec have even tried to look for any past wrongdoing or character flaw for the pretty blond-haired, blue-eyed white woman... and unless she is the second coming of Christ, she most certainly has some. And if there isn't anything to pin on her, why aren't they slandering her parents like they did to Tamir Rice's mother?

 

[Toni]

Because having even a single verifiable character flaw or wrongdoing necessarily means you deserve to be killed on sight be a police officer whenever he deems you a threat.

Keep in mind, neither Loren nor Derec have even tried to look for any past wrongdoing or character flaw for the pretty blond-haired, blue-eyed white woman... and unless she is the second coming of Christ, she most certainly has some. And if there isn't anything to pin on her, why aren't they slandering her parents like they did to Tamir Rice's mother?

They're white so they deserve the money.

 

[Derec]

Keep in mind, neither Loren nor Derec have even tried to look for any past wrongdoing or character flaw for the pretty blond-haired, blue-eyed white woman... and unless she is the second coming of Christ, she most certainly has some. And if there isn't anything to pin on her, why aren't they slandering her parents like they did to Tamir Rice's mother?

I didn't "dig" anything "up", and I assume Loren didn't either. We merely posted things that were dug up by news media.
And while it is clear that Justine is not perfect, if she had anything even close to Tamir's moms we would have heard about it.

 

[laughing dog]

Keep in mind, neither Loren nor Derec have even tried to look for any past wrongdoing or character flaw for the pretty blond-haired, blue-eyed white woman... and unless she is the second coming of Christ, she most certainly has some. And if there isn't anything to pin on her, why aren't they slandering her parents like they did to Tamir Rice's mother?

I didn't "dig" anything "up", and I assume Loren didn't either. We merely posted things that were dug up by news media.
And while it is clear that Justine is not perfect, if she had anything even close to Tamir's moms we would have heard about it.

You and LP appear to intently" listen" the irrelevant character flaws of the black victims or their family members.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And the reason people care about Justine Damond is that she appears to have been completely innocent.

As did Tamir Rice and Philandro Castile.

Tamir Rice--"armed" with a realistic replica gun that he pulled when the police showed up.

Philandro Castile--failed to pay attention when the cop told him to stop. He flunked stopped-while-armed, probably from being stoned. Drugs & guns are a very bad mix.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He couldn't have seen that.

1. He was approaching from the side at a high rate of speed. He did not have a clear view of Rice's waistband or his hands. All Loehmann saw was Rice walking toward the road.

Your thoughts about what he could see don't match up with reality.

2. Rice wasn't drawing the pellet gun. We can see that clearly in the video.

The video isn't clear enough. His hands are moving as if drawing something from his waist but we can't see the contents.

You're trying to brush away evidence of second degree murder by saying it doesn't fit the description of first degree murder.

This makes no sense at all. There's no heat of the moment involved for it to have been done in, it can't be second degree.

- - - Updated - - -

Because having even a single verifiable character flaw or wrongdoing necessarily means you deserve to be killed on sight be a police officer whenever he deems you a threat.

Keep in mind, neither Loren nor Derec have even tried to look for any past wrongdoing or character flaw for the pretty blond-haired, blue-eyed white woman... and unless she is the second coming of Christ, she most certainly has some. And if there isn't anything to pin on her, why aren't they slandering her parents like they did to Tamir Rice's mother?

Because nobody has dug up any flaws. We aren't creating flaws, we are only pointing out what has already been brought up elsewhere.

And you're saying that Tamir Rice's mother wasn't a criminal??

- - - Updated - - -

I didn't "dig" anything "up", and I assume Loren didn't either. We merely posted things that were dug up by news media.
And while it is clear that Justine is not perfect, if she had anything even close to Tamir's moms we would have heard about it.

You and LP appear to intently" listen" the irrelevant character flaws of the black victims or their family members.

You saying they are irrelevant doesn't make them so. I have never mentioned anything about them that I do not think has a bearing on what happened.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

This makes no sense at all. There's no heat of the moment involved for it to have been done in...

Clearly there WAS, considering the police officers ran a full on blitzkrieg of the gazeebo, driving up to it at high speed and then leaping out of the barely-stopped car with guns drawn, ready to engage. The most you can say is that it is not clear exactly what caused the moment to be so heated -- although it's not even slightly hard to guess -- but the cameras record Loehman and his partner approaching Rice VERY aggressively long before they ever had direct visual contact with him.

We aren't creating flaws, we are only pointing out what has already been brought up elsewhere.

.... Because having even a single verifiable character flaw or wrongdoing necessarily means you deserve to be killed on sight be a police officer whenever he deems you a threat.

And you're saying that Tamir Rice's mother wasn't a criminal nigger??

This would be relevant if his MOTHER was the one they shot and killed.

You saying they are irrelevant doesn't make them so.

You saying they're relevant doesn't make them so.

 

[laughing dog]

And you're saying that Tamir Rice's mother wasn't a criminal??

The character and legal record of Tamir Rice's mother is irrelevant to the shooting of Tamir Rice.

You saying they are irrelevant doesn't make them so. I have never mentioned anything about them that I do not think has a bearing on what happened.

Exactly. And the strong correlation between their race (black) and your thinking the irrelevant is relevant is the entire point.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The character and legal record of Tamir Rice's mother is irrelevant to the shooting of Tamir Rice.

No--her criminal record likely implies attitudes that Rice would have about the police. Specifically, the ditch contraband when the cops show up that's gotten more than one criminal shot by mistake.

 

[RavenSky]

The character and legal record of Tamir Rice's mother is irrelevant to the shooting of Tamir Rice.

No--her criminal record likely implies attitudes that Rice would have about the police. Specifically, the ditch contraband when the cops show up that's gotten more than one criminal shot by mistake.

There you go! Blaming the black child for an irresponsible white guy killing him!

 

[LordKiran]

No--her criminal record likely implies attitudes that Rice would have about the police. Specifically, the ditch contraband when the cops show up that's gotten more than one criminal shot by mistake.

There you go! Blaming the black child for an irresponsible white guy killing him!

Remind me again, where is it considered proper police procedure for cops to pull up to a potentially tense situation, jump out of the car, and shoot someone without having assessed the situation or even so much as asked him wtf he was doing?

Do members of SWAT just show up and start firing into a building containing an ongoing hostage situation? Its utterly assinine that LP is willing to go so far as to try and justify general incompetence just so he doesn't have to argue uphill that there isn't a greater issue of poor policing in certain areas of the USA.

 

[laughing dog]

The character and legal record of Tamir Rice's mother is irrelevant to the shooting of Tamir Rice.

No--her criminal record likely implies attitudes that Rice would have about the police. Specifically, the ditch contraband when the cops show up that's gotten more than one criminal shot by mistake.

Wow, you are making more stuff up in order to justify the stuff you already made up.