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I have now met a real life creationist.

You will not!
Scenario 1:
You are on the 68th floor of a building in midtown Manhattan.
Power goes out. No water, no elevator, no food, no gasoline, no telephone. no police.
Somehow, you get to the ground. Fighting in the streets, riots over food, people running in every direction, taking whatever they want; cops using their guns to obtain food. You manage to get to your house. No food, power, water. You grab your pets and kill them for food. No more pets, but kids are still alive, although skinny. You begin looking at them and licking your lips. YOU EAT THEM!
You think you won't?
It has happened before. Looking back at <fan fiction>
I think wilson has been watching to many Hollywood Zombie movies. In what, other than fantasy, does the power, water, fuel, police, et.al. abruptly end indefinitely, especially one that leaves 8 billion people thinking about eating their own...

This happened in 1965 in New York and a number of adjoining states in the US Northeast; Lots of interesting and scary things occurred, but I am not aware of any pets being eaten.

A discussion of this event, and what it tells us about how people rely on technology and science, forms the opening of James Burke's excellent 1978 TV series Connections, which is well worth watching in its entirety, despite being somewhat dated (Indeed, it is worth watching just to see how impressed people were by computer and satellite technologies that seem ever so clunky to us today).

This short clip from Episode 1 summarizes some of the problems associated with the collapse of technology:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPcZ_5uCldg[/YOUTUBE]

The whole of Episode 1 can be found at: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xnwpsp_veetle-connections-s01e01-the-trigger-effect_tech
 
I said: "Science has caused more death and destruction than any other branch of human activity."

I never said I am against all science. Some stupid person keeps repeating that lie. Sadly they see the need to lie in order to appear superior.

Some of JWs are successful scientists.
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/videos/#mediaitems/OriginsLife/pub-pcr_E_5_VIDEO

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/videos/#mediaitems/OriginsLife/pub-pcr_E_1_VIDEO

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/videos/#mediaitems/OriginsLife/pub-pcr_E_2_VIDEO

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/videos/#mediaitems/OriginsLife/pub-pcr_E_3_VIDEO

There are many more of us.

Do you think these people are Jehovah's Witnesses because of their lack of education?
 
I never said I am against all science.
No, you just demonstrate that you don't understand it, cannot follow it, and paint it with paranoid fantasies whenever you get the chance.

I said: "Science has caused more death and destruction than any other branch of human activity."... Sadly they see the need to lie in order to appear superior.
Two incredibly ironic statements to post in one effort.
 
And Hitler was kind to his dog. Some things about Jehova's Witnesses are great. Some things are awful.
Not to us. And you are not in a position to know anything about us that is true.
The good things don't cancel out the bad things.
Good people do not practice bad things.
When a good man does a bad thing, he has become a bad man. That does not work in the reverse. A good deed done by a bad man does not make him a good man, simply because he is a bad man.
“. . .By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.” (Matthew 7:16-20)

Call us what you will, but right-hearted people can see the good in what we do.
http://www.worldreligionnews.com/re...lications-used-address-social-issues-Thailand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_kxYnlAsTM&t=57s

There are no such things as 'good people' and 'bad people'. All people do some good things and some bad things.

Dividing people into arbitrary, falsely dichotomous, and unsubstantiated categories is really stupid and dangerous, and has been the root cause of almost all conflict ever. You are demonstrating that you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
 
Are you trying to say JWs encourage science education or any education?
The co-ordinator in our congregation is a retired high-school principal. His wife is a biologist.
JWs do not concern themselves with the level of education anyone chooses to pursue.
To believers only:
Does the Bible Discourage Education?
“It is only the ignorant who despise education.” —Publilius Syrus, Moral Sayings, first century*B.C.E.
THE Bible urges us to “safeguard practical wisdom and thinking ability.” (Proverbs 3:21)
Jehovah, the God of knowledge, wants his worshipers to be educated people. (1*Samuel 2:3; Proverbs 1:5, 22)
Yet, some statements in the Bible might raise questions.
For example, referring to his former pursuits, including his higher education, the apostle Paul wrote: “I consider it all as mere garbage.” (Philippians 3:3-8, Today’s English Version) In another inspired letter, he asserted: “The wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.”—1*Corinthians 3:19.

Does the Bible, then, discourage education?
How far should a Christian go in the pursuit of secular education? Is the minimum required by law enough, or should additional education be pursued?

Education in the First Century
Among first-century Christians, there was a wide variety of educational backgrounds. Certain prominent men viewed the Galilean apostles Peter and John as “unlettered and ordinary.” (Acts 4:5, 6, 13) Did this mean that these two men were illiterate or unschooled? No. It simply meant that their education was not from the Hebrew schools of higher learning in Jerusalem. The writings of these two bold exponents of Christianity later attested to the fact that they were well-educated, intelligent men, capable of lucid Scriptural exposition. Their education had included practical instruction in caring for the material needs of their families. They were colleagues in what was evidently a lucrative fishing business.—Mark 1:16-21; Luke 5:7, 10.

In contrast, Luke, the disciple who penned one of the Gospels as well as the book of Acts, received a more advanced education. He was a physician. (Colossians 4:14) His medical background gives a distinctive tone to his inspired writings.—See Luke 4:38; 5:12; Acts 28:8.

Prior to becoming a Christian, the apostle Paul was instructed in the Jewish law, under the tutelage of one of the most brilliant scholars of the time, Gamaliel. (Acts 22:3) Paul’s schooling might be comparable to a university education today. Further, in Jewish society it was considered honorable for young ones to learn a trade, even when higher education was to be pursued in later years. Evidently Paul received training as a tentmaker while still a young lad. Such skills enabled him to support himself in his full-time ministry.

For Believers Only
Nevertheless, Paul recognized that in relation to the surpassing worth of the knowledge of God, secular education—though necessary—is of limited value. Accordingly, the Bible places the greatest importance on acquiring knowledge of God and of Christ. Christians today do well to adopt this realistic view of secular education.—Proverbs 2:1-5; John 17:3; Colossians 2:3.

Carefully Weighing the Matter
Some Christians have found that pursuing additional education, in the form of either academic or vocational studies, has assisted them in caring for their family’s material needs. Caring for one’s family is proper, for ‘providing for one’s household’ is a sacred duty. (1*Timothy 5:8) Gaining the skills needed to do this is a matter of practical wisdom.

However, those who feel the need to acquire more than a basic education to meet this objective should weigh both the benefits and the drawbacks. Potential benefits include being equipped to procure employment that enables a person to support himself and a family adequately while zealously pursuing the Christian ministry. In addition, he may be able to assist others in a material way, ‘having something to distribute to someone in need.’—Ephesians 4:28.

What are some potential drawbacks?
These may include being exposed to teachings that erode faith in God and in the Bible. Paul advised Christians to be wary of “the falsely called ‘knowledge’” and “the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men.” (1*Timothy 6:20, 21; Colossians 2:8) Undeniably, exposure to some forms of education can be detrimental to the faith of a Christian. Those who consider additional training or studies should be aware of the risk of such harmful influences.

Moses, who was “instructed in all the wisdom of the Egyptians,” maintained strong faith despite receiving an education that doubtless included polytheistic, God-dishonoring teachings. (Acts 7:22) Likewise, Christians today are careful not to succumb to unwholesome influences in whatever environment they find themselves.

Another potential danger in pursuing additional education is that knowledge puffs up, or breeds conceit. (1*Corinthians 8:1) Many seek knowledge through education for selfish reasons, and even the sincere pursuit of knowledge could result in feelings of superiority and self-importance. Such attitudes displease God.—Proverbs 8:13.

Consider the Pharisees.
Members of this prominent religious sect prided themselves on their erudition and supposed righteousness. They were well-versed in the large body of rabbinic traditions, and they looked down on the common people, who were less educated, viewing them as ignorant, contemptible, even accursed. (John 7:49) Besides this, they loved money. (Luke 16:14) Their example shows that when pursued for wrong motives, education can make a person proud or lead to his being a lover of money. Therefore, in determining the type and amount of schooling to pursue, a Christian would do well to ask himself, ‘What are my motives?’

A Matter of Personal Choice
Just as was true in the first century, a wide variety of educational backgrounds exist among Christians today. Under the guidance of their parents, young people who complete their obligatory schooling may choose to pursue additional secular education. Likewise, adults interested in improving their means of providing for their families may view such additional schooling as a viable means to that end. Some aspects of traditional academic education lay emphasis on developing general intellectual capacity rather than professional or vocational skills. Thus, a person may find that even after investing much time in acquiring such an education, he lacks marketable skills. For this reason, some choose to pursue studies in vocational programs or technical schools, with a view to more readily filling actual demands in the job market.

At any rate, such decisions are of a personal nature.
Christians ought not to criticize or judge one another on this matter. James wrote: “Who are you to be judging your neighbor?” (James 4:12) If a Christian is considering pursuing additional schooling, he would do well to examine his own motives to make sure that selfish, materialistic interests are not the driving force.

It is apparent that the Bible encourages a balanced view of education.
Christian parents recognize the surpassing value of a spiritual education based on God’s inspired Word and give balanced counsel to their children regarding supplementary education. (2*Timothy 3:16) Being realistic about life, they acknowledge the value of secular education in gaining the skills necessary for their grown children to provide for themselves and their future families. Therefore, in determining whether supplementary education is to be pursued, and to what extent, each Christian can make sound personal decisions based on devotion to Jehovah God, which “is beneficial for all things, as it holds promise of the life now and that which is to come.”—1*Timothy 4:8.

To the believer only:
“. . .To be sure, there is great gain in godly devotion along with contentment. 7 For we have brought nothing into the world, and neither can we carry anything out. 8 So, having food and clothing, we will be content with these things.” (1 Timothy 6:6-8)

“. . .But those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and harmful desires that plunge men into destruction and ruin. 10 For the love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things, and by reaching out for this love some have been led astray from the faith and have stabbed themselves all over with many pains.” (1 Timothy 6:9, 10) (AW 98 3/8 p. 21)
1*Timothy 4:8.
 
Virgin birth, do you really think that is a educated mind
It's as bad as a stork
 
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Virgin birth, do you really think that is a educated mind
It's as bad as a stork
Sex is icky, hence the whole virgin birth thingie. No penis anyway, just vaginas and afterbirths and the like.

But storks get rid of all of that.

Virgin-birthers are so lame.
 
And you are not in a position to know anything about us that is true.

I know that JWs used to knock on my door on weekends (usually in the morning) trying to push their bullshit religion. That's true.

The really sad thing is that the adults would bring along some kid and have the child hand over the pamphlet...obviously figuring that nobody could be so mean as to slam the door in the face of a child.

Fortunately (at least in my experience) the Jehovah's Witnesses have become less aggressive in recent years, being content to leave the flyer stuck to the door. The last time they stopped by, though, I noticed that the kids were still there. That's gotta suck...you're a kid just wanting to have a normal childhood and your cult takes you out to go door to door in search of converts. That's horrible parenting if you ask me.
 
And Hitler was kind to his dog. Some things about Jehova's Witnesses are great. Some things are awful.
Not to us. And you are not in a position to know anything about us that is true.

Ha ha... So all those ex-JW's are spreading lies because... conspiracy? All of JW's dirty laundry was aired a long time ago. Today, any moron, has the skill to accurately inform themselves of what is going on inside JW. But what is the most telling is JW's own material they put out. I'm sure, while you're on the inside, you're not aware of how insane it looks from the outside. I know what you're thinking. No, it has nothing to do with "heart condition" or faith in Christ. Nobody has issues with JWs theological beliefs. It's not JWs beliefs that are insane. It's how they enforce and try to spread them.

The good things don't cancel out the bad things.
Good people do not practice bad things.
When a good man does a bad thing, he has become a bad man. That does not work in the reverse. A good deed done by a bad man does not make him a good man, simply because he is a bad man.
“. . .By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.” (Matthew 7:16-20)

Perhaps the most dangerous belief to hold. History is full of people who sacrificed themselves for others in the pursuit of goodness, but ended up doing nothing but evil. Do you think the Muslims who travel to Syria to fight for ISIS do so because they are evil? These people are willing to sacrifice everything, including their lives for what they think is a greater good. These are not evil people. The Crusaders fighting in the holy land were motivated by their powerful faith, and wish to sacrifice themselves in the service of Christ. All the missionaries that went to South America and Africa, meant well. Ended up causing total havoc, destroying indigenous institutions that had helped the natives for centuries. All the communists who fought for "the cause". They only wanted equality for all. Ended up being the tools of dictators.

I'd argue that only education is a defense against evil. The world is full of extremely good people being willing tools of evil. Being good, or having a strong faith, is no defense against evil.

Call us what you will, but right-hearted people can see the good in what we do.
http://www.worldreligionnews.com/re...lications-used-address-social-issues-Thailand

If this is the best you can do, I'm not impressed. Even I know JW's do better things than this. It looks like I have a better understanding of JW than you have. Circulating a pamphlet isn't doing anything.

Also, this is just JW saying this about themselves. Unless you have an external source it's not convincing. Awake! publish loads of absolute nonsense. It's a propaganda mouthpiece. Nothing wrong about that. It's advertising. But be honest about what kind of a publication it is. It's not news. It's "news".
 
...History is full of people who sacrificed themselves for others in the pursuit of goodness, but ended up doing nothing but evil. Do you think the Muslims who travel to Syria to fight for ISIS do so because they are evil? These people are willing to sacrifice everything, including their lives for what they think is a greater good. These are not evil people. The Crusaders fighting in the holy land were motivated by their powerful faith, and wish to sacrifice themselves in the service of Christ. All the missionaries that went to South America and Africa, meant well. Ended up causing total havoc, destroying indigenous institutions that had helped the natives for centuries. All the communists who fought for "the cause". They only wanted equality for all. Ended up being the tools of dictators.

I'd argue that only education is a defense against evil. The world is full of extremely good people being willing tools of evil. Being good, or having a strong faith, is no defense against evil.
I agree - wilson certainly seems like such a tool.
 
What are some potential drawbacks?
These may include being exposed to teachings that erode faith in God and in the Bible. Paul advised Christians to be wary of “the falsely called ‘knowledge’” and “the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men.” (1*Timothy 6:20, 21; Colossians 2:8) Undeniably, exposure to some forms of education can be detrimental to the faith of a Christian. Those who consider additional training or studies should be aware of the risk of such harmful influences.

I think this may be the dumbest thing anybody has ever said. If new knowledge erodes your faith... good. Then it should be eroded. Don't you agree?
 
I think this may be the dumbest thing anybody has ever said. If new knowledge erodes your faith... good. Then it should be eroded. Don't you agree?
I would agree that if you're one fact away from disbelief, you're better of knowing that fact than living with your head stuck in the sand, yes.
But you have to remember that the god-fearing work their way backwards from conclusion to evidence.
If the fact is not going to confirm their superstition, then it's a bad fact, false knowledge, evil attempt to stain their soul.
 
All this talk about scientific advances and technology underscores the whole basis of creationism.
It takes the creative mind of a personal Being to intentionally bring about something new.

Sure, if you want to keep on with the science versus religion canard fair enough. But scientists setting their minds to toward the material world is something of a backhanded compliment to Creationism.
 
That minds can create things is not something anyone will dispute.
That minds are the ONLY things that can create new things is an empty assertion, but if it helps you feel like something other than an insignificant speck in an uncaring universe, more power to you.

Just try not to stain anything useful with your superstition.
 
All this talk about scientific advances and technology underscores the whole basis of creationism.
It takes the creative mind of a personal Being to intentionally bring about something new.

Sure, if you want to keep on with the science versus religion canard fair enough. But scientists setting their minds to toward the material world is something of a backhanded compliment to Creationism.

Do you have an argument to back this up with? All I see here is a statement. Statements are not conclusions.
 
Good dog; Bad dog

Not to us. And you are not in a position to know anything about us that is true.

Ha ha... So all those ex-JW's are spreading lies because... conspiracy? All of JW's dirty laundry was aired a long time ago. Today, any moron, has the skill to accurately inform themselves of what is going on inside JW. But what is the most telling is JW's own material they put out. I'm sure, while you're on the inside, you're not aware of how insane it looks from the outside. I know what you're thinking. No, it has nothing to do with "heart condition" or faith in Christ. Nobody has issues with JWs theological beliefs. It's not JWs beliefs that are insane. It's how they enforce and try to spread them.

The good things don't cancel out the bad things.
Good people do not practice bad things.
When a good man does a bad thing, he has become a bad man. That does not work in the reverse. A good deed done by a bad man does not make him a good man, simply because he is a bad man.
“. . .By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.” (Matthew 7:16-20)

Perhaps the most dangerous belief to hold. History is full of people who sacrificed themselves for others in the pursuit of goodness, but ended up doing nothing but evil. Do you think the Muslims who travel to Syria to fight for ISIS do so because they are evil? These people are willing to sacrifice everything, including their lives for what they think is a greater good. These are not evil people. The Crusaders fighting in the holy land were motivated by their powerful faith, and wish to sacrifice themselves in the service of Christ. All the missionaries that went to South America and Africa, meant well. Ended up causing total havoc, destroying indigenous institutions that had helped the natives for centuries. All the communists who fought for "the cause". They only wanted equality for all. Ended up being the tools of dictators.

Ooohhh, it must be Bible Cherry Picking Day.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.

Romans 3:21-23 But now apart [k]from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those [l]who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all [m]have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?

Yep, the JW's have a real hang up thinking their cult/sect is special. It does really seem to feed this good/bad kind of absurdity...
 
I said: "Science has caused more death and destruction than any other branch of human activity."

I never said I am against all science. Some stupid person keeps repeating that lie. Sadly they see the need to lie in order to appear superior.
Funny, the impression I got was that I and others were mostly picking on your hypocrisy of cherry picking what largely accepted scientific constructs you like to consider valid based upon the whims of your dogma. You seem to accept that scientists have figured out human contributed global warming, but go lalalala regarding evolution, and the Big Bang theory and the expansion of the universe with star formation. You seem to like the thoughts of the scientists involved with the Doom’s Day Clock on how bad things are, but don’t like what those same physicists, Astronomers & Astrophysicists say otherwise.

Below, you seem to dis pretty much all science. The problem Wilson, is that words have generally accepted meanings and when you make such sweeping statements people can really only take you at your own word. But yeah, call random people liars, I’m sure that pleases your Yahweh…
Can you name me an invention of science that has no serious side effects?

That is simply not true. It can scientifically be proven that life comes only from life. Abiogenesis is just an idea - totally unproven and unprovable. That is what the bible says and that is the only scientific explanation of the origin of man.

Then I await your explanation of how the sun became complex on its own. You would have to show what went into the complexity, including all the relevant components. Remember - there is no such thing as more complexity from less.
I call it an arrangement because it does not and cannot operate on its own. It cannot keep itself in orbit and it certainly did not create the gravity that holds it in place.
 
All this talk about scientific advances and technology underscores the whole basis of creationism.
It takes the creative mind of a personal Being to intentionally bring about something new.

And you know this how? I know you are not going to respond to this question, because you have no evidence to support your claim. And it gets old after a while.

Sure, if you want to keep on with the science versus religion canard fair enough. But scientists setting their minds to toward the material world is something of a backhanded compliment to Creationism.

How is a study of the natural universe a compliment to creationism?
 
Ha ha... So all those ex-JW's are spreading lies because... conspiracy? All of JW's dirty laundry was aired a long time ago. Today, any moron, has the skill to accurately inform themselves of what is going on inside JW. But what is the most telling is JW's own material they put out. I'm sure, while you're on the inside, you're not aware of how insane it looks from the outside. I know what you're thinking. No, it has nothing to do with "heart condition" or faith in Christ. Nobody has issues with JWs theological beliefs. It's not JWs beliefs that are insane. It's how they enforce and try to spread them.

The good things don't cancel out the bad things.
Good people do not practice bad things.
When a good man does a bad thing, he has become a bad man. That does not work in the reverse. A good deed done by a bad man does not make him a good man, simply because he is a bad man.
“. . .By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.” (Matthew 7:16-20)

Perhaps the most dangerous belief to hold. History is full of people who sacrificed themselves for others in the pursuit of goodness, but ended up doing nothing but evil. Do you think the Muslims who travel to Syria to fight for ISIS do so because they are evil? These people are willing to sacrifice everything, including their lives for what they think is a greater good. These are not evil people. The Crusaders fighting in the holy land were motivated by their powerful faith, and wish to sacrifice themselves in the service of Christ. All the missionaries that went to South America and Africa, meant well. Ended up causing total havoc, destroying indigenous institutions that had helped the natives for centuries. All the communists who fought for "the cause". They only wanted equality for all. Ended up being the tools of dictators.

Ooohhh, it must be Bible Cherry Picking Day.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.

Romans 3:21-23 But now apart [k]from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those [l]who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all [m]have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?

Yep, the JW's have a real hang up thinking their cult/sect is special. It does really seem to feed this good/bad kind of absurdity...

This isn't a problem for JW. Because they have a special book of interpretation that tells them what the Bible means. You know how, when you argue with your gf, and she says everything is ok, when it's not. Apparently, the Bible is the same. That's why you need the special companion book. Or you'd have to, God forbid, have to figure all this stuff on your own. And we wouldn't want people thinking, now would we.

What cracks me up is that Charles Taze Russell had no qualifications. He was literally just a random dude, absolutely clueless about context, just winging it. Anybody could to just as good a job as he did in the "Commentary of the Old and New Testament". Not to mention that he had a new translation done of the Bible itself. Hilarious. Talk about the blind leading the blind.

But I'm all for people making up their own interpretations of holy texts. I can't stand fundamentalists and litteralists. Which Jehovas Witnesses aren't. So that's a point in their favour IMHO.
 
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