I have now met a real life creationist.

[Keith&Co.]

You DID say
SO, yes, i thought you mean without technology of any fucking kind.
Kind of hard, now, to figure where i got that idea...

But, hey, I guess i should have known you meant SOME technology of some kind, just not the most advanced technology. To make your point.
over the internet...

Well ... now we understand and my "mistake" is hopefully forgivable, (I don't know everything) all is good .

It's just that your 'mistake' was an egregious error that completely undermined the point you were trying to make.
NO ONE lives without technology.
So in the case of a cataclysm, the question depends on just how much tech is lost, and who remains, not how comfortable they are using the tech which exists.

 

[funinspace]

Science is the study of nature. Reality is the exact opposite of what you just wrote. I'm an engineer. If the disaster comes, I'll be fine.

You will not!
Scenario 1:
You are on the 68th floor of a building in midtown Manhattan.
Power goes out. No water, no elevator, no food, no gasoline, no telephone. no police.
Somehow, you get to the ground. Fighting in the streets, riots over food, people running in every direction, taking whatever they want; cops using their guns to obtain food. You manage to get to your house. No food, power, water. You grab your pets and kill them for food. No more pets, but kids are still alive, although skinny. You begin looking at them and licking your lips. YOU EAT THEM!
You think you won't?
It has happened before. Looking back at <fan fiction>

I think wilson has been watching to many Hollywood Zombie movies. In what, other than fantasy, does the power, water, fuel, police, et.al. abruptly end indefinitely, especially one that leaves 8 billion people thinking about eating their own...

 

[Keith&Co.]

So, if you're exposed to Leprosy, your response is to hope you've been eating all your vegetables...

It helps .. but those that had it in the first place before passing it onto others could have been prevented maybe.

But you keep ducking the original question.
wilson keeps insisting that science is bad, bad, bad. Causes nothing but harm.
He ignores the lives saved by science in order to remain an opinionated luddite.

Do you agree with him or not?
Would you turn to God OR science in the case of a plague?

 

[funinspace]

It helps .. but those that had it in the first place before passing it onto others could have been prevented maybe.

But you keep ducking the original question.
wilson keeps insisting that science is bad, bad, bad. Causes nothing but harm.
He ignores the lives saved by science in order to remain an opinionated luddite.

The really funny part IMPOV, is that wilson thinks much of science if fakery, except where it fits his 'end is nih' dogma.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I think wilson has been watching to many Hollywood Zombie movies.

It would tend to reinforce his belief that he's an insider with something special. All those other fools are going to eat their own pets and children as soon as the lights go out, but he'll be superior because skybuddy is watching over him...

 

[wilson]

Back up your claims about cults.

List them.
No allegations or accusations. List the facts - things that you can prove.
If you can't, you are a slanderer and a liar!

This is made very easy because JW is one of the worst offending cults out there, as well as having been extensively researched.

It's cute how you're pretending to be affronted by these obvious and well known facts. I suspect this isn't the first time you've been confronted with the crimes of JW.

You mean like when we do horrible things like this?:
A Letter From a Roma Brother
In November*2014, the first Romany congregation in Slovakia was formed. At a recent circuit assembly, 21 Romany-speaking publishers got baptized. All were from the same village. At the Memorial, the attendance at the Romany congregation was 495. One newly baptized brother wrote the following:

“I am of the Roma people from Žehra, Slovakia. Where I live, many white people view us as Gypsies and feel that we are dirty and that we lie and steal. When I wanted to go to church, I was told by the custodian that I didn’t belong there and should go away. After experiences like that, you can imagine my view of white people. Then Jehovah’s Witnesses invited me to the Kingdom Hall. I went with great suspicion, expecting to be disappointed again. I was surprised that even before entering the Kingdom Hall, a white man shook my hand and warmly welcomed me. During the public talk, I wasn’t able to pay attention. I could only think, ‘How is it possible that everyone is so nice to me?’

“That night, I couldn’t sleep at all because I kept thinking about what had happened at the Kingdom Hall. So I decided to go again to find out if the kindness I had been shown was just a coincidence. That time, the people there were even nicer and treated me like an old friend. I never stopped attending the meetings, and I eventually got baptized. After my baptism, the kindness of the brothers never changed, and they continue to show that they value me. At times, they even share with me better food than they themselves eat! I always want to be part of this organization, and Jehovah is the God I want to serve forever.”

 

[DrZoidberg]

Science is the study of nature. Reality is the exact opposite of what you just wrote. I'm an engineer. If the disaster comes, I'll be fine.

You will not!
Scenario 1:
You are on the 68th floor of a building in midtown Manhattan.
Power goes out. No water, no elevator, no food, no gasoline, no telephone. no police.
Somehow, you get to the ground. Fighting in the streets, riots over food, people running in every direction, taking whatever they want; cops using their guns to obtain food. You manage to get to your house. No food, power, water. You grab your pets and kill them for food. No more pets, but kids are still alive, although skinny. You begin looking at them and licking your lips. YOU EAT THEM!
You think you won't?

Well.... desperate people do desperate things. I don't think anybody who hasn't been in that situation can answer it.

It has happened before. Looking back at history:
Jerusalem was surrounded by the Babylonians. Its inhabitants were in dire straits.
From an eyewitness:
“. . .Those slain with the sword are better off than those slain by famine, Those who waste away, who are pierced through for lack of food from the field. י  The hands of compassionate women have boiled their own children. They have become their food of mourning during the breakdown of the daughter of my people.” (Lamentations 4:9, 10)
That was a time of tribulation. But Jesus said there is worse to come:
“. . .for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.” (Matthew 24:21, 22)

HOW WILL TRIED AND TESTED SERVANTS OF JEHOVAH MAKE OUT?
“. . .Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says:
“Look! My servants will eat, but you will go hungry. Look! My servants will drink, but you will go thirsty. Look! My servants will rejoice, but you will suffer shame. 14 Look! My servants will shout joyfully because of the good condition of the heart, But you will cry out because of the pain of heart And you will wail because of a broken spirit.” (Isaiah 65:13, 14)

Just one problem with all this. You are quoting the Bible. The Torah is a Jewish propaganda text. The point of it is to glorify the Jews and Jewish accomplishments. To spin any events in their favour. It's not a reliable text. You're going to have to find other sources of information to back it up with.

I can even help rebuild civilisation again. Can you? If you're stuck out in the wilderness your the only thing your Bible is good for is kindling.

You have to survive the Great Tribulation first.
How you gonna do that?
Kung Fu?

We might as well assume we'll be one of the lucky ones who make it. If we do and die, we haven't lost much. If we assume we'll die and make it... that's a disaster. I actually have wilderness survival gear in my home. As well as loads of water tanks. But not for survival reasons. It's a funny story. I'm not much of a wildlife guy. But I am scientifically schooled... and I've had reason to find out that that goes a long way to ensure survival in the Swedish woods.

The Swedish countryside is sparsely populated and full of bears, wolves and boars. Also, cold as fuck, even in the summer. And I know I will survive in it.

 

[Ford]

It is true. You are using a computer. Don't know if it is a tablet, PC, laptop, or mobile device, but you are definitely using something that would not exist without an astonishing amount of science.

It is connected to a world-wide network that was created by scientists in the pursuit of science. Even the electricity which powers your computer is a result of science. The best that religion could do was hand-written copies of holy books reserved to a handful of educated elites in palaces and monasteries.

Biblical history goes back to the beginning of humanity.

Only if you're stupid enough to believe the Earth is around 6,000 years old.

My statement was:
"Science has caused more death and destruction than any other branch of human activity."
Is it true or false?

Now - try again.

Your "statement" is idiotic, as has been demonstrated repeatedly. By your reasoning, we should reject fire, since - while it is useful for things like cooking food - it has also killed untold numbers of people throughout history.

So when you take your computer out and throw it on the bonfire to cleanse yourself of satanic technology, make sure to be careful, okay?

 

[Iznomneak]

So, if you're exposed to Leprosy, your response is to hope you've been eating all your vegetables...

To be fair, Leviticus 14 does give us a cure for Leprosy here: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/lev/14.html

 

[DrZoidberg]

This is made very easy because JW is one of the worst offending cults out there, as well as having been extensively researched.

It's cute how you're pretending to be affronted by these obvious and well known facts. I suspect this isn't the first time you've been confronted with the crimes of JW.

You mean like when we do horrible things like this?:
A Letter From a Roma Brother
In November*2014, the first Romany congregation in Slovakia was formed. At a recent circuit assembly, 21 Romany-speaking publishers got baptized. All were from the same village. At the Memorial, the attendance at the Romany congregation was 495. One newly baptized brother wrote the following:

“I am of the Roma people from Žehra, Slovakia. Where I live, many white people view us as Gypsies and feel that we are dirty and that we lie and steal. When I wanted to go to church, I was told by the custodian that I didn’t belong there and should go away. After experiences like that, you can imagine my view of white people. Then Jehovah’s Witnesses invited me to the Kingdom Hall. I went with great suspicion, expecting to be disappointed again. I was surprised that even before entering the Kingdom Hall, a white man shook my hand and warmly welcomed me. During the public talk, I wasn’t able to pay attention. I could only think, ‘How is it possible that everyone is so nice to me?’

“That night, I couldn’t sleep at all because I kept thinking about what had happened at the Kingdom Hall. So I decided to go again to find out if the kindness I had been shown was just a coincidence. That time, the people there were even nicer and treated me like an old friend. I never stopped attending the meetings, and I eventually got baptized. After my baptism, the kindness of the brothers never changed, and they continue to show that they value me. At times, they even share with me better food than they themselves eat! I always want to be part of this organization, and Jehovah is the God I want to serve forever.”

And Hitler was kind to his dog. Some things about Jehova's Witnesses are great. Some things are awful. The good things don't cancel out the bad things.

Like I said before, a cult is a very specific type of organisation. It has to have come about by design. They don't just magically appear out of thin air (like God did LOL). You can keep doing all the good deeds JW keeps doing while not being a cult. Loads of Christian organisations manage to do it just fine. So it's neither required, nor impossible for JW to do as well.

The wider question is, what benefit do you think comes from keeping Jehova's Witnesses a cult? How do you think it helps it's members? Who or what benefits from keeping it a cult? To me, it just seems like such a pointless waste of energy. Shouldn't a Christians main effort go toward serving God? Why not do that instead of all the social control within the congregation?

 

[Keith&Co.]

So, if you're exposed to Leprosy, your response is to hope you've been eating all your vegetables...

To be fair, Leviticus 14 does give us a cure for Leprosy here:

To b emore fair, that's not a 'cure,' that's to purify someone following a miraculous cure of Leprosy

 

[wilson]

You DID say
SO, yes, i thought you mean without technology of any fucking kind.
Kind of hard, now, to figure where i got that idea...

But, hey, I guess i should have known you meant SOME technology of some kind, just not the most advanced technology. To make your point.
over the internet...

Well ... now we understand and my "mistake" is hopefully forgivable, (I don't know everything) all is good .

I wonder which movie these guys have been watching:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geophysics/doomsday-clock.htm

 

[DrZoidberg]

Well ... now we understand and my "mistake" is hopefully forgivable, (I don't know everything) all is good .

I wonder which movie these guys have been watching:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geophysics/doomsday-clock.htm

Yet again you talk about something that you have clearly not researched. It's not hard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_Clock

The clock is more about politics than science. And is an attempt to draw attention to responsible management of nuclear weapon arsenals.

 

[Elixir]

To be fair, Leviticus 14 does give us a cure for Leprosy here:

To b emore fair, that's not a 'cure,' that's to purify someone following a miraculous cure of Leprosy

Heh - much needed. Those miracle cures can be very messy and unhygienic.

 

[Keith&Co.]

You DID say
SO, yes, i thought you mean without technology of any fucking kind.
Kind of hard, now, to figure where i got that idea...
But, hey, I guess i should have known you meant SOME technology of some kind, just not the most advanced technology. To make your point.
over the internet...

Well ... now we understand and my "mistake" is hopefully forgivable, (I don't know everything) all is good .

I wonder which movie these guys have been watching:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geophysics/doomsday-clock.htm

Wow, wilson.... that's a pretty fucking random response to the posts you're quoting, there.

But if you think science is only bad, why give credence to activists using science to draw attention to their political concerns of conflicts, among other things?

 

[Keith&Co.]

The clock is more about politics than science. And is an attempt to draw attention to responsible management of nuclear weapon arsenals.

It would have been better if he'd quoted the post that says he only cares for science when it supports his nihilistic fantasies.

 

[bilby]

History is studying the past by studying written documents. Humanity is a lot older than the oldest written text. Again and again you demonstrate that you don't know the meaning of the most basic "long words". Wilson, you were saying earlier that it's important to be humble. When are you going to start?



Are you afraid of flying by any chance? How about worrying about your fridge keeping the food cold? When you get into a car do you trust that the car will work? When you fill it with gas, do you ever wonder if just this time it won't work?

The reason why you don't worry about any of this is because science is dependable, ie the opposite of only having guesses. There's a reason we trust science in our society. Because science works! Every time you open the fridge and it is cold you have proof that science is correct. Every time I've prayed to God, (just as an experiment) nothing has happened. God has been dependably disappointing.

My statement was:
"Science has caused more death and destruction than any other branch of human activity."
Is it true or false?

Now - try again.

And you've been shown that science is the greatest boon mankind has ever seen. Statistically, without science you'd be dead. You wouldn't even be born. None of us would.

"Scientists believe that a rise in the earth’s average temperature, extremes in weather, the melting of ice caps and glaciers, and the death of coral reefs and important species all point to global climate change. Though the subject is debated, many hold the cause to be the burning of coal, oil, and natural gas—fossil fuels that emit high amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere—by cars and industry.
Some experts believe that those emissions act like a greenhouse, slowing the escape of heat from the earth into space and causing temperatures to rise. Because trees absorb carbon dioxide, large-scale deforestation may also contribute to climate change.
“If present rates of global warming continue and production of carbon dioxide is not curtailed, many scientists believe the Earth’s average temperature will continue to rise, resulting in wilder and more unpredictable climatic swings and higher ocean levels that could threaten the low-lying coastal areas where much of humanity makes its home.”—(A Mind for Tomorrow: Facts, Values, and the Future)

“Every year, between 18,000 and 55,000 species become extinct. The cause: human activities.”—United Nations Development Program

What's the solution?

Nuclear power, plus hydroelectric, and some wind and solar.

Stop burning coal, gas and mineral oil.

Have you been living under a rock?

 

[wilson]

You mean like when we do horrible things like this?:
A Letter From a Roma Brother
In November*2014, the first Romany congregation in Slovakia was formed. At a recent circuit assembly, 21 Romany-speaking publishers got baptized. All were from the same village. At the Memorial, the attendance at the Romany congregation was 495. One newly baptized brother wrote the following:

“I am of the Roma people from Žehra, Slovakia. Where I live, many white people view us as Gypsies and feel that we are dirty and that we lie and steal. When I wanted to go to church, I was told by the custodian that I didn’t belong there and should go away. After experiences like that, you can imagine my view of white people. Then Jehovah’s Witnesses invited me to the Kingdom Hall. I went with great suspicion, expecting to be disappointed again. I was surprised that even before entering the Kingdom Hall, a white man shook my hand and warmly welcomed me. During the public talk, I wasn’t able to pay attention. I could only think, ‘How is it possible that everyone is so nice to me?’

“That night, I couldn’t sleep at all because I kept thinking about what had happened at the Kingdom Hall. So I decided to go again to find out if the kindness I had been shown was just a coincidence. That time, the people there were even nicer and treated me like an old friend. I never stopped attending the meetings, and I eventually got baptized. After my baptism, the kindness of the brothers never changed, and they continue to show that they value me. At times, they even share with me better food than they themselves eat! I always want to be part of this organization, and Jehovah is the God I want to serve forever.”

And Hitler was kind to his dog. Some things about Jehova's Witnesses are great. Some things are awful.

Not to us. And you are not in a position to know anything about us that is true.

The good things don't cancel out the bad things.

Good people do not practice bad things.
When a good man does a bad thing, he has become a bad man. That does not work in the reverse. A good deed done by a bad man does not make him a good man, simply because he is a bad man.
“. . .By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.” (Matthew 7:16-20)

Call us what you will, but right-hearted people can see the good in what we do.
http://www.worldreligionnews.com/re...lications-used-address-social-issues-Thailand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_kxYnlAsTM&t=57s

 

[atrib]

Nonsense. You have no evidence to support your claim that the prophecies of the Bible will come true. Our observations tell us that our universe is expanding at an ever increasing rate, and that the overall entropy of the universe is increasing. Science allows us to predict the fate of the universe based on our understand of how reality behaves. You have an old book written by Bronze Age goat herders. Sorry, I am not buying it.

Who's asking you to? You're much too smart for that - right?

You are. By posting unsupported claims regarding the prophecies of the Bible, you are challenging our knowledge of universe as it exists today. I am only pointing out the errors and fallacies associated with your claims. And by the way, you don't need to be particularly smart to acquire this knowledge, but you do have to be willing to educate yourself. Why are you so unwilling to educate yourself?

And while we are at it, can you explain why you believe the Biblical scriptures you quoted should be treated as credible? I understand that you believe them, but that by itself means nothing. Do you have any evidence to support your assertions, or to demonstrate that your preferred god even exists?

In my experience, creationists are a lot like cockroaches. They tend to disappear when science turns the lights on. In this case, you have abandoned any semblance of debating the facts and resorted to quoting random scripture. Preaching is not allowed on these forums. Either you support your claims with facts and reason, or you stop making them.

Science has caused more death and destruction than any other branch of human activity.

Again, utter nonsense. Science is a process modern humans use to gain knowledge of the natural universe. Science is not inherently good or bad, but the knowledge we acquire using the scientific method can be used to better our lives, or to cause damage. As an example, we can split atoms to power our infrastructure, or we can create weapons that can be used to kill people. You appear to be unaware of what science is, like many of your kind. But there is good news. Ignorance can be cured. But you have to be willing to learn. Why are you so resistant to the idea of acquiring knowledge. Are you scared that educating yourself will expose the contradictions inherent in your faith and make you question the god belief that you have been apparently indoctrinated into?

If you ask me questions, I will answer you my way. If you don't like my answers, don't ask me anything.

Sorry, but you don't get to decide when it is appropriate for me to post. Why are you afraid of having your faith challenged?

What happens when your funding for science runs out? You think that cannot happen? Why, then, were your scientists marching in the streets last week?

It is ironic that you use a computer to spout your anti-science nonsense. Do you see the irony?

Without funds, your god will die.

Science doesn't have anything to do with gods. Just because you view the world through god-tinted glasses doesn't mean everyone does.

Here is a suggestion. Since you are here, try to engage with others in an open and honest manner. Listen to what they have to say, even if you don't agree with them. And try to frame your responses appropriately and address the content of the post you are responding to. Drive-by evangelism and quoting random scripture is not going to get you anywhere, as you must have figured out already.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Drive-by evangelism and quoting random scripture is not going to get you anywhere, as must have already figured out.

I think it's achieving his goals, though.
I just hope he washes his hands before touching food or other people's property. Maybe shave the palms.