I think this political cartoon is worth discussing as it is all side that do this

[Elixir]

No it's not. We don't have the confidence to say that you didn't commit a crime either. But we won't say which one!

Disregarding the unsurprising false equivalence, I’ll skip to just pointing out that RVonse said that Trump was found not guilty by Mueller. Mueller himself said if they thought Trump was innocent he would have said so.

I’m not saying that Mueller said he was guilty. I’m just saying that RVonse’s claim about the Mueller report is false.

Only a fucking idiot or a blind-ass right winger would expect Mueller to say "he committed a crime", no matter what the factual findings. The truth is that the report detailed multiple crimes Trump had committed without identifying them as such in so many words.

M Cohen went to jail for a crime. In the Federal indictment it was stated that he did so at the direction and for the benefit of INDIVIDUAL-1. I suppose the right winger would argue that INDIVIDUAL-1 wasn't indicted or even identified, so he/she couldn't possibly have committed any crime.

It's still incredible to me that this once great nation was very nearly brought down - and still might be brought down - because of a fucking DOJ memo. Not even a law.

 

[ZiprHead]

"unindicted co-conspirator"

 

[Shadowy Man]

It's still incredible to me that this once great nation was very nearly brought down - and still might be brought down - because of a fucking DOJ memo. Not even a law.

Methinks Mueller didn’t realize how corrupt Bill Barr was.

 

[Elixir]

It's still incredible to me that this once great nation was very nearly brought down - and still might be brought down - because of a fucking DOJ memo. Not even a law.

Methinks Mueller didn’t realize how corrupt Bill Barr was.

That is almost certainly the case. Nor did he realize how malevolent Trump was.
It's hard to believe someone with his experience could have been so naive. Years of immersion in the system gave him a level of unwarranted confidence in the integrity of its operation.

 

[marc]

It's still incredible to me that this once great nation was very nearly brought down - and still might be brought down - because of a fucking DOJ memo. Not even a law.

Methinks Mueller didn’t realize how corrupt Bill Barr was.

That is almost certainly the case. Nor did he realize how malevolent Trump was.
It's hard to believe someone with his experience could have been so naive. Years of immersion in the system gave him a level of unwarranted confidence in the integrity of its operation.

That and the reluctance to hold power accountable. Mueller did hold the belief you can't indict a sitting president, and accepted only investigating a limited range of potential crimes.

 

[Patooka]

It's still incredible to me that this once great nation was very nearly brought down - and still might be brought down - because of a fucking DOJ memo. Not even a law.

Methinks Mueller didn’t realize how corrupt Bill Barr was.

That is almost certainly the case. Nor did he realize how malevolent Trump was.
It's hard to believe someone with his experience could have been so naive. Years of immersion in the system gave him a level of unwarranted confidence in the integrity of its operation.

I would like to believe that because of Mueller's experience he knows the dangers of mission creep and that's why he was so restrained. Investigations into people like Manafort, Stone and Flynn would have been severely diluted if the investigation got broadened in the manner Republicans want to do with the Jan 6 enquiry. Pushing back against the DOJ memo would have accomplished nothing more than another partisan shit show. At least with how the Mueller report played out there are meaningful tangible facts of corruption in the Trump campaign and Trump administration. Another investigation should have happened towards the Trump campaign specifically, by that isn't Mueller's call to make.

 

[Rhea]

I'm also unsure of your implication, but talking about legitimate grievances, even talking exclusively about them, does not make those grievances illegitimate.

But the ones who never post anything at all except white grievance?
Addiction to outrage porn.

Rhea, why do you appear to believe that talking exclusively about your own grievances delegitimises them?

When feminists talk about grievances that apply to women, and specialise in talking about them, do you think that is outrage porn?

Typically, in conversations, relationships, pblic communication, etc, Whenever any person is unable to attend a conversation that diverges in any way from their own grievances, People stop taking them seriously.


Your particular set of grievances is further diminished by the Moore-Coulter problem, wherein you present every white male grievance as a level 10, even when it is about something that is inconvenience, and you compare it to other issues that are life and death.

It reminds me again of that news item about the Brahim caste Indian who, when his government changed the law that instead of the Brahmins, at 12% of the population, having 75% of the jobs reserved for them, the law changed so that they would only have 50% of the jobs reserved for them. And this guy when to the public square, poured gasoline all over himself and lit himself of fire, dying in protest of the ~deplorable~ condition that his 12% of the population would only get a guaranteed first crack at 50% of the jobs now. A 30% decrease in opportunity! It was so horrible, he had to protest with his own public death.

It never once ocurred to him to care about the other 88% of the population, and how much more dire their circumstances had been for centuries.


Surely that man had some real grievances. But the world had a lot of other things to fix up, first.

 

[Metaphor]

Typically, in conversations, relationships, pblic communication, etc, Whenever any person is unable to attend a conversation that diverges in any way from their own grievances, People stop taking them seriously.

So, you are saying that feminists who focus exclusively on women's problems ought be taken less seriously?

Your particular set of grievances is further diminished by the Moore-Coulter problem, wherein you present every white male grievance as a level 10,

So, linking to stories is 'presenting' every white male grievance as a 10?

even when it is about something that is inconvenience, and you compare it to other issues that are life and death.

When did I compare issues of 'inconvenience' to issues that are 'life and death'?

It reminds me again of that news item about the Brahim caste Indian who, when his government changed the law that instead of the Brahmins, at 12% of the population, having 75% of the jobs reserved for them, the law changed so that they would only have 50% of the jobs reserved for them. And this guy when to the public square, poured gasoline all over himself and lit himself of fire, dying in protest of the ~deplorable~ condition that his 12% of the population would only get a guaranteed first crack at 50% of the jobs now. A 30% decrease in opportunity! It was so horrible, he had to protest with his own public death.

So, let me get this straight. You appear to believe that complaining about discrimination against men 'reminds' you of a Brahmin caste fuckwit complaining and torching himself because the government lowered its discrimination against other castes?

That's what you are comparing my posting stories about grievances suffered by men and boys that are not the loss of privilege but active discrimination against them, to? And you are accusing me of "Moore-Coulter"?

It never once ocurred to him to care about the other 88% of the population, and how much more dire their circumstances had been for centuries.

Surely that man had some real grievances. But the world had a lot of other things to fix up, first.

If I understand your story, no he fucking didn't. He'd been handed privilege at the expense of others his entire life and then cried foul when that privilege was reduced. He didn't have any kind of legitimate grievance.

 

[Bomb#20]

Methinks Mueller didn’t realize how corrupt Bill Barr was.

That is almost certainly the case. Nor did he realize how malevolent Trump was.
It's hard to believe someone with his experience could have been so naive. Years of immersion in the system gave him a level of unwarranted confidence in the integrity of its operation.

Seriously? You're painting Robert Mueller as giving a rat's ass about integrity? The man is every bit as corrupt as the system he's immersed in. He has a history of actively participating in FBI frame-ups.

 

[Rhea]

So, linking to stories is 'presenting' every white male grievance as a 10?

You, or anyone here, can go to your user profile and click on “threads started by Metaphor,” and see the topics you choose to start, the word choices you select for your thread titles, and the language you use to demean those you think are taking privilege from you. They are not threads that promote discussion, or seeking context or reaching out to understand other points of view.

That is the context that provides the impression of complaints about minor issues being delivered with demands of high priority. ~Shrug~. That’s what you write, that’s your theme. I assume your choices are voluntary.

 

[Swammerdami]

So, linking to stories is 'presenting' every white male grievance as a 10?

You, or anyone here, can go to your user profile and click on “threads started by Metaphor,” and see the topics you choose to start, the word choices you select for your thread titles, and the language you use to demean those you think are taking privilege from you. They are not threads that promote discussion, or seeking context or reaching out to understand other points of view.

That is the context that provides the impression of complaints about minor issues being delivered with demands of high priority. ~Shrug~. That’s what you write, that’s your theme. I assume your choices are voluntary.

^^^ This.

I'm probably more sympathetic with white male grievances than most, and I'm sure I'd be very annoyed if affirmative action cost me a job I wanted. But even that would be minor compared with problems that non-whites (or white women) face throughout their lives.

I can understand a desire to pose contrasts, and to help progressives understand what propels some whites to join Proud Bois or to vote for Trump. But I'm left wondering what the core beliefs of Metaphor et al are. Do they vote for Trump? Do they think the killing of George Floyd wasn't criminal? Is climate change a threat? AFAIK they tell us little about their perspective except for cutesy one-liners, silly insults against women like AOC, repeated FoxNews talking-points, and screeds about how oppressed white males are. Is that all they have?

 

[Bomb#20]

So, let me get this straight. You appear to believe that complaining about discrimination against men 'reminds' you of a Brahmin ... torching himself because the government lowered its discrimination against other castes?

That's what you are comparing my posting stories about grievances suffered by men and boys that are not the loss of privilege but active discrimination against them, to?

It never once ocurred to him to care about the other 88% of the population, and how much more dire their circumstances had been for centuries.

Surely that man had some real grievances. But the world had a lot of other things to fix up, first.

He'd been handed privilege at the expense of others his entire life and then cried foul when that privilege was reduced. He didn't have any kind of legitimate grievance.

So let me get this straight. You appear to believe that Goswami had no kind of legitimate grievance, and that he'd been handed privilege at the expense of others his entire life and then cried foul when that privilege was reduced, and that he torched himself because the government lowered its discrimination against other castes, and that until 1990 the law in India actually reserved 75% of jobs for Brahmins, and that even after 1990, 50% of jobs in India are actually legally reserved for Brahmins -- you seriously believe all that -- because you were told you it's true by Rhea?!?

 

[Gun Nut]

The left denying that critical race theory is the hegemony at American universities springs to my mind of the left's gaslighting.

One can find "Critical Race Theory" offered at private universities that a relatively small number of spoiled white rich kids attend.
One cannot find such offerings at "normal" universities that make up the other 99% of academia.

I have a cousin attending the former.. and she is being brainwashed into believing that if someone dies while being black, it is because she is a piece of white trash.
I have several cousins that are attending the latter.. and they think she is crazy.

 

[Metaphor]

So, linking to stories is 'presenting' every white male grievance as a 10?

You, or anyone here, can go to your user profile and click on “threads started by Metaphor,” and see the topics you choose to start, the word choices you select for your thread titles, and the language you use to demean those you think are taking privilege from you. They are not threads that promote discussion, or seeking context or reaching out to understand other points of view.

That is the context that provides the impression of complaints about minor issues being delivered with demands of high priority. ~Shrug~. That’s what you write, that’s your theme. I assume your choices are voluntary.

Yes, I do write about issues that interest me and that I think do not get much exposure on this board. I simply find it bizarre that the reason people claim not to care is 'you talk about this too much'. I think the reason is 'I don't give a shit about what happens to men or white people, so cry me a river'.

 

[Metaphor]

So, let me get this straight. You appear to believe that complaining about discrimination against men 'reminds' you of a Brahmin ... torching himself because the government lowered its discrimination against other castes?

That's what you are comparing my posting stories about grievances suffered by men and boys that are not the loss of privilege but active discrimination against them, to?

It never once ocurred to him to care about the other 88% of the population, and how much more dire their circumstances had been for centuries.

Surely that man had some real grievances. But the world had a lot of other things to fix up, first.

He'd been handed privilege at the expense of others his entire life and then cried foul when that privilege was reduced. He didn't have any kind of legitimate grievance.

So let me get this straight. You appear to believe that Goswami had no kind of legitimate grievance, and that he'd been handed privilege at the expense of others his entire life and then cried foul when that privilege was reduced, and that he torched himself because the government lowered its discrimination against other castes, and that until 1990 the law in India actually reserved 75% of jobs for Brahmins, and that even after 1990, 50% of jobs in India are actually legally reserved for Brahmins -- you seriously believe all that -- because you were told you it's true by Rhea?!?

Rhea didn't provide any links or further context. I don't know the incident she is referring to. But by her own description. she appears to be dismissing any and all grievances against men and boys as hysterical non-grievances.

 

[Metaphor]

One can find "Critical Race Theory" offered at private universities that a relatively small number of spoiled white rich kids attend.

I wouldn't say "offered". I would say "permeating through". Also, there are many non-private universities in the "public Ivy league" that are saturated with CRT (e.g. University of Texas at Austin and University of California (any campus but most obviously Berkeley)).

One cannot find such offerings at "normal" universities that make up the other 99% of academia.

I have a cousin attending the former.. and she is being brainwashed into believing that if someone dies while being black, it is because she is a piece of white trash.
I have several cousins that are attending the latter.. and they think she is crazy.

I do not believe that 99% of universities in the United States don't have CRT influenced policies. But even if they did, future leaders and influencers (real influencers, not kids getting free meals at local restaurants) are drawn from the prestige ranks of the prestige universities. And as you say, they're all being brainwashed. (Though I don't believe they're all being brainwashed: some students and staff probably do not believe, but do not want to destroy their lives and livelihood by speaking out).

 

[Rhea]

But by her own description. she appears to be dismissing any and all grievances against men and boys as hysterical non-grievances.

Nope. That is not the point I am making.

 

[Metaphor]

But by her own description. she appears to be dismissing any and all grievances against men and boys as hysterical non-grievances.

Nope. That is not the point I am making.

What you described (the government reducing caste discrimination) is a non-grievance. If that isn't what you meant to describe then you need to explain it better. If it is what you meant to describe then I reject that talking about discrimination against men and boys is anything like torching yourself.

 

[Swammerdami]

Here's an " Amanpour and Company" video which relates to this discussion.

Researchers have studied the demographics of the 420 people arrested for the Jan. 6 insurrection. They were mostly white males — no surprise there — but rather than uneducated or unemployed, many were CEO's, business owners, doctors or lawyers. According to Professor Robert Pape, Founder of the Chicago Project on Security and Threats, the common predictor, both for the 420 insurrectionists and for the 10 million Americans who answer Yes/Yes to the questions "Was the Election Stolen? Would you participate in a violent protest about that?", is that they live in counties where the white/non-white ratio is declining. These people are "afraid of being replaced." They believe white rights are outpaced by minority rights.

This may help us understand why some TFTers are focused on white male grievances.

 

[Metaphor]

Here's an " Amanpour and Company" video which relates to this discussion.

Researchers have studied the demographics of the 420 people arrested for the Jan. 6 insurrection. They were mostly white males — no surprise there — but rather than uneducated or unemployed, many were CEO's, business owners, doctors or lawyers. According to Professor Robert Pape, Founder of the Chicago Project on Security and Threats, the common predictor, both for the 420 insurrectionists and for the 10 million Americans who answer Yes/Yes to the questions "Was the Election Stolen? Would you participate in a violent protest about that?", is that they live in counties where the white/non-white ratio is declining. These people are "afraid of being replaced."

This may help us understand why some TFTers are focused on white male grievances.

I am not focused on "white male grievances", though I do point out discrimination against men and boys, the dehumanising invective and false consciousness of critical race theory and other critical theories, and the erasure of LGB identity by trans ideology.

I am not "afraid of being replaced". I am afraid of ongoing discrimination and the forced adherence to preferred ideologies, as sanctioned by government and society.