If You Can't Show Me Your God, It's Because You Don't Really Have One.

[Malintent]

gravity is the weakest force known. Very unimpressive. It fills our universe.. it is expansive... universally critical.. and part and parcel of the fabric of existence... but weak as shit. Let me show you how unbelievably weak and unimpressive gravity is:

Look on the ground for a small object.. like a paperclip.. It is on the ground because the earth exerts the force of gravity from its mass onto the object (and vice versa). Now, bend over and pick it up. What is your mass versus the mass of Earth? Yet, you plucked the object away from the entire mass of the Earth with just two fingers.

Gravity... psh!

A better test of gravity is string a rope between two real tall buildings say thirty stories up. Now climb out on that rope between the two buildings and hang there by one hand while holding the paper clip in the other hand for several hours. How long before you are forced to concede the paper clip to gravity?

millions upon millions of planc seconds. a quantum eternity.

 

[Malintent]

Gravity acts over longer distances than the other forces.

no longer than the electromagnetic force. there are no limits to either sphere of influence, and both drop off exponentially with distance.

 

[blastula]

In any case, it's misleading to call gravity the weakest. Depends on the context.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I thought I'd see a post here with the all-purpose Christian 'save' that God will not be tested or show himself to settle a bet. It's the most convenient way to have an invisible friend and explain his invisibility. Should you ever run into this canard, refer your friend to the 18th chapter of I Kings, in which Jehovah shows up in a contest with Baal, as proposed by Elijah to show a crowd of pagans that his god is real and can light a fire. Jehovah comes through and lights a tremendous fire, while the nonexistent Baal pussies out. Jehovah's fire even burns the stones and dirt around the burnt offering. I say, let your God set a gum wrapper on fire. If it can't, it aint there. Any respectable god should be able to a) fly, b) set fires, and c) put folks in the hell fire, at a bare minimum.

 

[JCS60]

I thought I'd see a post here with the all-purpose Christian 'save' that God will not be tested or show himself to settle a bet. It's the most convenient way to have an invisible friend and explain his invisibility. Should you ever run into this canard, refer your friend to the 18th chapter of I Kings, in which Jehovah shows up in a contest with Baal, as proposed by Elijah to show a crowd of pagans that his god is real and can light a fire. Jehovah comes through and lights a tremendous fire, while the nonexistent Baal pussies out. Jehovah's fire even burns the stones and dirt around the burnt offering. I say, let your God set a gum wrapper on fire. If it can't, it aint there. Any respectable god should be able to a) fly, b) set fires, and c) put folks in the hell fire, at a bare minimum.

I'd like them to explain why the flood, couldn't the magic man just poof the humans out of existence. That would have left all the critters alone and no need for a boat. The added benefit would be no need to explain the absence of evidence of a world wide flood or where did all that water go?

 

[Keith&Co.]

I'd like them to explain why the flood, couldn't the magic man just poof the humans out of existence.

God's power seems to have some sort of half-life.
He poofed EVERYTHING, then he poofed man, he couldn't poof a whole woman without a rib to start with...
He couldn't poof The Wicked away, he had to open the floodgates... And it took a year to drain the water away.
He poofed one messiah, but he could only do that with an egg in Mary's womb.
For a while he could make statues cry if there was a leaky toilet upstairs.
Now his power is limited to making images of Mary on overpasses or putting Jesus' face on a tree's bark.
In twenty years, the only sign he'll be able to give is changing someone's facebook status. "Tom proposed and i said yes but when i went to FB to update and it ALREADY SAID ENGAGED!"

 

[Malintent]

In any case, it's misleading to call gravity the weakest. Depends on the context.

pick a context... I stand by my statement (so far).

In what way is gravity not the weakest (known) force in the universe?

 

[blastula]

The nuclear force doesn't affect something a meter distance away. Gravity does.

 

[Malintent]

The nuclear force doesn't affect something a meter distance away. Gravity does.

I was thinking about the strong force... but given an equivalent amount of mass (that of the nucleus of an atom), gravity can't even keep a sub-atomic particle in place, whereas the strong force can.

distance from which the force may act is not the only measure of strength... it is the degree of that force over equivalent distances that matters... no?

 

[JCS60]

In any case, it's misleading to call gravity the weakest. Depends on the context.

pick a context... I stand by my statement (so far).

In what way is gravity not the weakest (known) force in the universe?

Yes weakest force but not necessarily weak.

 

[Kharakov]

Let's be entirely honest, If you can't show me your god it's really because you don't have one. Can it get any simpler? No angels, no devils, no magic books, no arguments. Just ante up or fold. Game over.

It's a bunch of brains running in parallel, keeping many of the human scale consciousnesses unaware that they are hosts to many individual consciousnesses, and have menial lives while the entities that live within their brains live like kings, queens, and Gods.

It's a bit like Oz, the Great and Powerful....

 

[remez]

Let's be entirely honest, If you can't show me your god it's really because you don't have one. Can it get any simpler? No angels, no devils, no magic books, no arguments. Just ante up or fold. Game over.

I'm in................AND.............I raise you.............your intelligence.

Let's be entirely honest....... by your same reasoning.............. Can you show me your intelligence?

Because......................... If you can't show me your INTELLIGENCE it's really because you don't have any.
Can it get any simpler?
No scholars, no professors, no magic curriculum, no arguments.
Just ante up or fold.

Game Over!

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

The problem with God is that there is no evidence God exists. Or that those things that supposedly God relies on for it's existence, supernaturalism, simplicity of God, et al, exists.

God is only a set of empty propositions. The big problem is god as defined by theism soon collapses under logical examination. The problem of evil and other problems for example.

Theism soon collapse into a series of word games, trying to pretend that a Universe that seems to have no all powerful, all good God really has one. Special pleading, empty assertions, no evidence, it doesn't work.

Game over. It's physics all the way down.

Intelligence exists. A smart human is more intelligent than a retarded human, or a dog. If your argument amounts to denying the obvious, you have lost. This world is awash in cruel nature. Predators, parasites, germs and viruses, diseases. This fits with evolution that is blind, and opportunistic, not a world created by an all powerful, loving God.
Children die young while cruel dictators often live to a old age, not what you'd expect in a world run by a loving merciful, just God. If serial rapists, murders and dictators seem to die before they really did a lot of damage, and children with painful cancers usually had their cancers spontaneously remiss, we might think there was a good God that existed and cared. We don't get that, do we? Can you explain why God seems to hide and abandon us? It's like expecting good fairies to help us, isn't it, a futile exercise in superstition. Why should we take theism seriously in face of all of this?

 

[bilby]

Let's be entirely honest, If you can't show me your god it's really because you don't have one. Can it get any simpler? No angels, no devils, no magic books, no arguments. Just ante up or fold. Game over.

I'm in................AND.............I raise you.............your intelligence.

Let's be entirely honest....... by your same reasoning.............. Can you show me your intelligence?

Because......................... If you can't show me your INTELLIGENCE it's really because you don't have any.
Can it get any simpler?
No scholars, no professors, no magic curriculum, no arguments.
Just ante up or fold.

Game Over!

So you are agreeing that gods are simply an emergent property of human brain activity? That, like intelligence, gods only exist as a construct of human brains? If so, I concur.

Clearly gods exist in this sense, as concepts. I was under the impression that you wished to establish that a god or gods existed independently of our brains, as a part of external reality. But if not, we are in full agreement.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Let's be entirely honest, If you can't show me your god it's really because you don't have one. Can it get any simpler? No angels, no devils, no magic books, no arguments. Just ante up or fold. Game over.

I'm in................AND.............I raise you.............your intelligence.

Let's be entirely honest....... by your same reasoning.............. Can you show me your intelligence?

Because......................... If you can't show me your INTELLIGENCE it's really because you don't have any.
Can it get any simpler?
No scholars, no professors, no magic curriculum, no arguments.
Just ante up or fold.

Game Over!

So you're wagering a concept. I agree that these unseen spacemen that people think are interested in their sex organs are indeed concepts they've created to attempt to understand their surroundings.

 

[remez]

Intelligence exists.

Then show me your intelligence. Can it get any simpler?

And by the way, this................

A smart human is more intelligent than a retarded human, or a dog. If your argument amounts to denying the obvious, you have lost. This world is awash in cruel nature. Predators, parasites, germs and viruses, diseases. This fits with evolution that is blind, and opportunistic, not a world created by an all powerful, loving God.

...............is an argument and thus not allowed by the rules in this game.

Stop cheating.

 

[remez]

So you are agreeing that gods are simply an emergent property of human brain activity?

No.
I'm wagering that he can't show me his "intelligence" and obey his own rules of the game.

I was under the impression that you wished to establish that a god or gods existed independently of our brains, as a part of external reality.

Elsewhere yes, but not here. This is a rebuttal of his challenge in the OP.

I'm simply trying to expose the reasoning error of his OP. Examine his challenge to theists. It is completely unreasonable, for by his own rules and reasoning he can't even show me his "intelligence" either. So should I assume that it does not exist? Or that the game is flawed?

Can it get any simpler?

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Then show me your intelligence. Can it get any simpler?

And by the way, this................

A smart human is more intelligent than a retarded human, or a dog. If your argument amounts to denying the obvious, you have lost. This world is awash in cruel nature. Predators, parasites, germs and viruses, diseases. This fits with evolution that is blind, and opportunistic, not a world created by an all powerful, loving God.

...............is an argument and thus not allowed by the rules in this game.

Stop cheating.

You have gone off the deep end and have stopped making any sense at all. Everybody here except you understands the concept of intelligence.

The problem with the Bible God is that if we take these mythological tall tales seriously, that Bible God seems to lack basic intelligence. The Bible God is a dull witted, silly God with a seeming lack of common sense and intelligence.
And that observation is one of the reasons careful reading of that Bible creates atheists.

 

[remez]

So you're wagering a concept.

No, I'm not wagering here that God exists.
I'm wagering that YOUR OP fails to be reasonable.

Let's be entirely honest, If you can't show me your god it's really because you don't have one. Can it get any simpler? No angels, no devils, no magic books, no arguments. Just ante up or fold. Game over.

If you really believe that is reasonable then show me your intelligence.

Be honest.............Can it get any simpler?

 

[remez]

Cheerful Charlie

I’m not trying to prove God’s existence.
I’m challenging the reasonableness of the OP.
Read…………..

Let's be entirely honest, If you can't show me your god it's really because you don't have one. Can it get any simpler? No angels, no devils, no magic books, no arguments. Just ante up or fold. Game over.

This………

You have gone off the deep end and have stopped making any sense at all. Everybody here except you understands the concept of intelligence.

……. is an argument and by joedad’s rules that does not count.

So by the same reasoning if you can’t show me your intelligence then should I assume that it does not exist? Or is there an error in the reasoning?

I’m wagering the latter.