Immigration Issues

[TSwizzle]

I don’t think things have changed that much in regards to people in the USA being deported, certainly Obama deported plenty of them. It just wasn’t made such a big deal when he did it.

What’s changed is how frequently ICE operations appear to push or disregard established constitutional limits and the traditional scope of federal authority.

• warrantless entries
• administrative warrants being treated like judicial ones
• lack of coordination with local law enforcement
• unclear identification of agents
• expansion of enforcement beyond traditional bounds

Yeah, there have been some changes you might not be aware of.

Scant evidence that is actually happening.

 

[TSwizzle]

So Twiz, who ya gonna believe the news or your lying eyes?

Who are you going to believe?

Frank Star Comes Out, president of the Oglala Sioux Tribe in South Dakota, said he and other council members have not been able to verify that unhoused Oglala tribal members have been detained by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Minneapolis. Star Comes Out partially walked back those earlier statements regarding the status of tribal members during a news conference held Friday at the Minneapolis American Indian Center.

News

You really, really want it to be true. You’re not the only one of course.

Cannot confirm because those incarcerated in the Whipple Detention Center at Ft.Snelling, the site of a concentration camp for Dakota Indians during the 1862-63 US-Dakota War, are routinely denied access to call attorneys, family, medical help, etc.

Sure, Jan.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Protesting isn't an "attack" and the target was not "the church," and therefore my sentence refers to how the right-wing news media is portraying this as an attack on a church.

Whether or not the protest was intended as an “attack,” people exercising their religion still have constitutional rights. If the protest substantially interfered with their ability to worship, that’s a rights issue regardless of intent or media framing. It's why I consider it a textbook example of how poorly considered tactics can undermine the very cause they are meant to advance.

That is a serious tangent from my response to Swizzle. I am talking about whether or not it is an attack, which it isn't and whether or not the target was the church, which it wasn't. We can't go around calling things attacks that are not attacks because it changes the language and depreciates the sense in which things are actually are violent, such as the very things that the protestors are protesting about.

That said, in response to whether it's a constitutional issue, I am not sure that it is. The main purpose of the Bill of Rights was not merely to enumerate certain rights but also to frame that as restrictions on the federal government. That is to say that the govt ought not be disrupting people's freedom to their religion or to establish a religion forcing people to worship something they do not believe in. I don't think the group had any such intent. Also, while I am on the subject, I just don't get heated about this issue. I don't think they should have done what they did but it's a very, very minor offense, like disturbing the peace.

I think it's far more important to frame this to the level that it is--a minor law violation, like disturbing the peace in a greater context of violent attacks on immigrants and unconstitutional measures and creeping fascism.

 

[Gospel]

I don’t think things have changed that much in regards to people in the USA being deported, certainly Obama deported plenty of them. It just wasn’t made such a big deal when he did it.

What’s changed is how frequently ICE operations appear to push or disregard established constitutional limits and the traditional scope of federal authority.

• warrantless entries
• administrative warrants being treated like judicial ones
• lack of coordination with local law enforcement
• unclear identification of agents
• expansion of enforcement beyond traditional bounds

Yeah, there have been some changes you might not be aware of.

Scant evidence that is actually happening.

I concede however scant ≠ no evidence.

• Warrantless entries

US citizen says ICE took him at gunpoint in only underwear despite frigid cold and no warrant

Federal immigration agents have detained a U.S. citizen in Minnesota at gunpoint without a warrant. That's according to ChongLy “Scott” Thao, who says agents forced open his door, entered with guns drawn and led him outside in his underwear in freezing conditions.

apnews.com

• Administrative warrants being treated like judicial ones

ICE explicitly admits it historically did not rely on administrative warrants alone to arrest people in their homes, then authorizes that practice nationwide. The memo concedes Form I-205 is not a judicial warrant while still directing agents to enter residences. That’s a major shift in enforcement posture.

Exhibit 1: Pages 17, 18 & 19

DHS ICE memo 1-21-26

www.documentcloud.org

• Lack of coordination with local law enforcement

And

• unclear identification of agents

Multiple Twin Cities law-enforcement leaders publicly raised concerns about lack of coordination with ICE as well as not being able to identify them.

Minnesota police chiefs allege some ICE agents racially profiled US citizens, including off-duty officers

Minnesota police chiefs report federal immigration officers allegedly racially profiled American citizens and off-duty cops during enforcement operations.

www.foxnews.com

Side Note:

Stephen Miller publicly told ICE agents they have “federal immunity” in the execution of their duties. Can't say I've ever heard the Deputy Chief of Staff and Homeland Security Advisor say that.

Stephen Miller’s Dark Message to ICE Agents Immediately Backfires

Legal experts smacked down Deputy White House Chief of Staff Stephen Miller’s ominous message to ICE agents that they enjoy “federal immunity” and argued that he might have just opened himself up to impeachment proceedings. During an appearance Tuesday on The Will Cain Show on Fox News, Miller...

www.yahoo.com

Sure, similar errors have happened under previous administrations (minus Miller), but that’s the difference: they were treated as mistakes, not as policy.

 

[TSwizzle]

Well of course there are isolated incidents where ICE agents make mistakes as in the example your brought about Mr. Thao. But this is not the norm (and I suspect has been highly embellished) for these types of operations. The rhetoric that ICE are "rounding up", "kidnapping", "concentration camps" "disappearing" and "murdering/executing" US citizens (or Native Americans) is just silly and not supported by evidence.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well of course there are isolated incidents where ICE agents make mistakes as in the example your brought about Mr. Thao. But this is not the norm (and I suspect has been highly embellished) for these types of operations. The rhetoric that ICE are "rounding up", "kidnapping", "concentration camps" "disappearing" and "murdering/executing" US citizens (or Native Americans) is just silly and not supported by evidence.

Let's see:

• rounding up
  • DHS said 3,000 arrests have been made in Minneapolis. No, not all 70k Somalis are now in a prison in Louisiana, but 3,000 is a decently highish number for less than a month.
• kidnapping
  • Like pulling off the streets or using children as bait and detained
• concentration camps
  • Alligator Alcatraz?
• disappearing
  • It is well established that detainees are immediately being removed from their area into containment places several states away, generally in order to prohibit access to any sense of legal services.
• "murdering/executing" US citizens (or Native Americans) is just silly and not supported by evidence.
  • Murder and executing is a bit strong. Kill, is accurate, as is needlessly assaulting people with pepper spray. No, ICE isn't going from door to door and shooting Americans. But it seems indisputable that ICE is being purposefully given a mission statement that their relationship to citizens is adversarial. Especially, if those people are protesting. All so that they can spend hundreds of millions to deport thousands of people.

 

[Gospel]

That said, in response to whether it's a constitutional issue, I am not sure that it is. The main purpose of the Bill of Rights was not merely to enumerate certain rights but also to frame that as restrictions on the federal government. That is to say that the govt ought not be disrupting people's freedom to their religion or to establish a religion forcing people to worship something they do not believe in. I don't think the group had any such intent. Also, while I am on the subject, I just don't get heated about this issue. I don't think they should have done what they did but it's a very, very minor offense, like disturbing the peace.

I concede that I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with your argument about TSwizzle’s (correction the administration's) use of the word “attack”, that’s not what I’m addressing. My comment is indeed about constitutional rights and how, in my view, it applies to this protest, which is the substantive issue, not TSwizzle's (correction the administration's) hyperbolic word choice.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding you, so let me ask this plainly: do you believe the federal and state governments have a responsibility to enforce and protect constitutional and civil rights, or do you believe they lack the authority to intervene? If they lack that authority, then who does have it, and where does that authority come from? Doesn’t the Constitution itself mandate that the government uphold and protect it?

Does not “We the People” grant the government its authority to protect constitutional and civil rights? From that perspective, intent is irrelevant. When people obstruct a constitutionally protected activity, they’ve crossed a line, regardless of motive.

What they did ran counter to the principles of civil disobedience as understood by figures like Martin Luther King Jr anyway. If someone identifies with the BLM movement, this is something they should already understand FFS.

Violating civil rights doesn’t become acceptable based on who is doing it and why. This was either poorly thought out, or the disruption of religious practice was deliberate.

Lastly, it’s difficult to reconcile protesting someone inside a place of worship while not anticipating that they just might be there to worship. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[TSwizzle]

Well of course there are isolated incidents where ICE agents make mistakes as in the example your brought about Mr. Thao. But this is not the norm (and I suspect has been highly embellished) for these types of operations. The rhetoric that ICE are "rounding up", "kidnapping", "concentration camps" "disappearing" and "murdering/executing" US citizens (or Native Americans) is just silly and not supported by evidence.

Let's see:

ICE are arresting and removing illegal aliens from the US. Some are held in a detention center while awaiting removal. There is nothing extraordinary about this.

 

[TSwizzle]

I concede that I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with your argument about TSwizzle’s use of the word “attack”, that’s not what I’m addressing. My comment is indeed about constitutional rights and how, in my view, it applies to this protest, which is the substantive issue, not TSwizzle's hyperbolic word choice.

Huh? I didn't use the word attack.

 

[Gospel]

I concede that I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with your argument about TSwizzle’s use of the word “attack”, that’s not what I’m addressing. My comment is indeed about constitutional rights and how, in my view, it applies to this protest, which is the substantive issue, not TSwizzle's hyperbolic word choice.

Huh? I didn't use the word attack.

Sorry, I misspoke, I think Don was referring to the administration.

 

[bilby]

ICE isn't going from door to door and shooting Americans.

Yet.

ICE isn't going from door to door and shooting Americans yet.

 

[bilby]

There is nothing extraordinary about this.

Sure, Jan.

 

[Toni]

So Twiz, who ya gonna believe the news or your lying eyes?

Who are you going to believe?

Frank Star Comes Out, president of the Oglala Sioux Tribe in South Dakota, said he and other council members have not been able to verify that unhoused Oglala tribal members have been detained by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Minneapolis. Star Comes Out partially walked back those earlier statements regarding the status of tribal members during a news conference held Friday at the Minneapolis American Indian Center.

News

You really, really want it to be true. You’re not the only one of course.

Cannot confirm because those incarcerated in the Whipple Detention Center at Ft.Snelling, the site of a concentration camp for Dakota Indians during the 1862-63 US-Dakota War, are routinely denied access to call attorneys, family, medical help, etc.

Sure, Jan.

Frank Star Comes Out is not a tribal leader of Lakota in Minnesota. He would have no idea what happened in Minnesota to NA who live in Minnesota.

I’m sorry that you have such little and poor grasp of US history and geography. I would have thought you would have been required to learn something in order to become a US citizen.

 

[TSwizzle]

So Twiz, who ya gonna believe the news or your lying eyes?

Who are you going to believe?

Frank Star Comes Out, president of the Oglala Sioux Tribe in South Dakota, said he and other council members have not been able to verify that unhoused Oglala tribal members have been detained by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Minneapolis. Star Comes Out partially walked back those earlier statements regarding the status of tribal members during a news conference held Friday at the Minneapolis American Indian Center.

News

You really, really want it to be true. You’re not the only one of course.

Cannot confirm because those incarcerated in the Whipple Detention Center at Ft.Snelling, the site of a concentration camp for Dakota Indians during the 1862-63 US-Dakota War, are routinely denied access to call attorneys, family, medical help, etc.

Sure, Jan.

Frank Star Comes Out is not a tribal leader of Lakota in Minnesota. He would have no idea what happened in Minnesota to NA who live in Minnesota.

The same applies to you.

 

[ZiprHead]

Donna Hughes-Brown, a 59-year old Irish woman and married to an American army veteran, has been in the US legally since she was 11 years old. She has a permanent resident green card. In July she was returning home after a visit to Ireland and was taken into custody by ICE at the airport where she remained for almost 5 months. Apparently, she was a "criminal" in need of deportation over two bounced checks totaling $80 (a misdemeanor) that were resolved over 10 years ago. She was taken to an ICE facility more than 6 hours from her home and until just before Christmas. She was finally released after her husband brought her case to he attention of several senators and testified before Congress. A judge ruled she was not a danger to the US.

Her husband, who voted for Trump, never thought they'd come for his wife.

Irish citizen Donna Hughes-Brown freed from US detention

Donna Hughes-Brown has reunited with her family after five months in an immigration detention unit in Kentucky.

www.bbc.com

She's a rapist and killer and needs to be deported.

 

[ZiprHead]

Cuban immigrant's death at ICE facility ruled a homicide, autopsy report says

A Cuban immigrant's death at a Texas immigration detention facility has been ruled a homicide, according to an autopsy report from El Paso County.

abcnews.go.com

 

[ZiprHead]

Detained by ICE and used as bait.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

Well of course there are isolated incidents where ICE agents make mistakes as in the example your brought about Mr. Thao. But this is not the norm (and I suspect has been highly embellished) for these types of operations. The rhetoric that ICE are "rounding up", "kidnapping", "concentration camps" "disappearing" and "murdering/executing" US citizens (or Native Americans) is just silly and not supported by evidence.

I agree that hyperbole only hurts the cause. It's easy fodder for Republicans to feed their supporters. The term "concentration camp" being thrown around is hysterical and frankly, offensive to anyone who knows the first thing about what the Nazis did. The same goes for the word "genocide" which has also become a hysterical, incorrect, and gross misuse of the word's definition.

 

[Elixir]

there are isolated incidents where ICE agents make mistakes as in the example your brought about Mr. Thao. But this is not the norm … ICE are arresting and removing illegal aliens from the US. Some are held in a detention center while awaiting removal. There is nothing extraordinary about this.

Uh huh. Bull fucking SHIT!
Among those in ICE detention in late 2025, only about 5–8% had a violent or property crime conviction; most convictions were for traffic, immigration, or other nonviolent offenses. Worst of the worst! Keep your nose clean, trumpsucker.

 

[TSwizzle]

Silly people.



These are not protestors. These are idiots interfering with an ICE operation.