Infinte Regress Timeline...

[skepticalbip]

Let me know when you actually read what I am taking the time to try to explain to you. You could do that by actually trying to respond to the individual points as to why you think they are wrong - or maybe, god forbid, where you think they are right.

I have no time for your commands.

Respond to what I write or don't.

Now ain't that special? I comment on your posts but you don't like my comment so just ignore it and go on to your next post, I comment on it but you don't like it so just ignore it and go on to your next post. I comment on it but you don't like it so just ignore it and go on to your next post. etc.

And now your say "I have no time for your commands. Respond to what I write or don't."

Do you understand the intent of a discussion forum? Do you understand the meaning of discussion?

So if one claims the amount of time in the past is infinite that means they are claiming the amount of time that has passed before any present moment is an amount of time than never finishes passing.

Blather.

If one claims the amount of time in the past is infinite that means they are claiming that every event that happened in the past happened in the past so has already "passed" before the present. Everything that happened yesterday happened yesterday, same for the day before, and the day before, and the day before, and the day before.....

 

[untermensche]

Now ain't that special? I comment on your posts but you don't like my comment so just ignore it and go on to your next post, I comment on it but you don't like it so just ignore it and go on to your next post. I comment on it but you don't like it so just ignore it and go on to your next post. etc.

I had fully responded to your comment. What you demanded was I respond again. After I fully respond to your comments you don't get to demand I do it again and again.

So if one claims the amount of time in the past is infinite that means they are claiming the amount of time that has passed before any present moment is an amount of time than never finishes passing.

Blather.

If one claims the amount of time in the past is infinite that means they are claiming that every event that happened in the past happened in the past so has already "passed" before the present. Everything that happened yesterday happened yesterday, same for the day before, and the day before, and the day before, and the day before.....

If time is infinite in the past then the number of events in the past are infinite.

You are claiming an infinite number of events have already occurred before present events. An infinite number of events can't occur before any present event. There is no end to them.

You are the one blathering irrationalities.

 

[skepticalbip]

I had fully responded to your comment. What you demanded was I respond again. After I fully respond to your comments you don't get to demand I do it again and again.

So if one claims the amount of time in the past is infinite that means they are claiming the amount of time that has passed before any present moment is an amount of time than never finishes passing.

Blather.

If one claims the amount of time in the past is infinite that means they are claiming that every event that happened in the past happened in the past so has already "passed" before the present. Everything that happened yesterday happened yesterday, same for the day before, and the day before, and the day before, and the day before.....

If time is infinite in the past then the number of events in the past are infinite.

You are claiming an infinite number of events have already occurred before present events. An infinite number of events can't occur before any present event. There is no end to them.

You are the one blathering irrationalities.

Unless you are in Zeno mode, an infinite number of events occurring in an infinite amount of time (which there would be with an infinite past) is exactly what logic would say would have to happen.

How many events do you think would occur given infinite time?

How many events will occur in an infinite future?

 

[untermensche]

Unless you are in Zeno mode, an infinite number of events occurring in an infinite amount of time (which there would be with an infinite past) is exactly what logic would say would have to happen.

How many events do you think would occur given infinite time?

I agree an infinite amount of events can occur in an infinite amount of time.

But they can't have already occurred before a present moment in time.

 

[skepticalbip]

Unless you are in Zeno mode, an infinite number of events occurring in an infinite amount of time (which there would be with an infinite past) is exactly what logic would say would have to happen.

How many events do you think would occur given infinite time?

I agree an infinite amount of events can occur in an infinite amount of time.

But they can't have already occurred before a present moment in time.

Assuming an infinite past they would have to have occurred. If not. why do you claim this infinite past different from other infinities? or even, how could it be?

Does your reason also mean that an infinite number of events can't occur in an infinite future?

 

[untermensche]

Assuming an infinite past they would have to have occurred. If not. why do you claim this infinite past different from other infinities? or even, how could it be?

Yes assuming an infinite past makes concluding an infinite past easy.

But an infinite number of events is a number of events that never finishes happening. A number of events that never finishes happening can't have already happened before a present moment.

 

[skepticalbip]

Assuming an infinite past they would have to have occurred. If not. why do you claim this infinite past different from other infinities? or even, how could it be?

Yes assuming an infinite past makes concluding an infinite past easy.

But an infinite number of events is a number of events that never finishes happening. A number of events that never finishes happening can't have already happened before a present moment.

WHY?

IF every day of the infinite past allowed for a days worth of events to occur, then how could an infinite number of events not have occurred in an infinite number of days?

Do you think your "argument" holds for an infinite future?

However, although an idea of an infinite past doesn't violate logic it doesn't tell us whether the past is finite or infinite. Only further evidence from science can tell us that.

 

[ryan]

I had fully responded to your comment. What you demanded was I respond again. After I fully respond to your comments you don't get to demand I do it again and again.

Blather.

If one claims the amount of time in the past is infinite that means they are claiming that every event that happened in the past happened in the past so has already "passed" before the present. Everything that happened yesterday happened yesterday, same for the day before, and the day before, and the day before, and the day before.....

If time is infinite in the past then the number of events in the past are infinite.

You are claiming an infinite number of events have already occurred before present events. An infinite number of events can't occur before any present event. There is no end to them.

You are the one blathering irrationalities.

Unless you are in Zeno mode, an infinite number of events occurring in an infinite amount of time (which there would be with an infinite past) is exactly what logic would say would have to happen.

How many events do you think would occur given infinite time?

How many events will occur in an infinite future?

But now this seems to imply that an infinite length of time can begin an infinite number of units of time ago and end today. Is this accurate?

 

[bilby]

Assuming an infinite past they would have to have occurred. If not. why do you claim this infinite past different from other infinities? or even, how could it be?

Yes assuming an infinite past makes concluding an infinite past easy.

Not if, as you claim, there is a logical problem with it. Of course, if assuming it doesn't lead to a logical problem, then it is simply 'possible' - which is all anyone has been saying from the very beginning of this thread. All you need to do is show us a logical problem - for example a contradiction - which arises from the assumption of an infinite past. But you have to do it without invoking fallacies; each word or phrase needs one consistent definition throughout your argument; and you are not allowed to assume your conclusion*.

But an infinite number of events is a number of events that never finishes happening.

If we assume finite time. But we cannot assume our conclusion; An infinite number of events CAN finish happening, if they started an infinite time ago.

A number of events that never finishes happening can't have already happened before a present moment.

Yes, they can; as long as they had infinite time to do so.





*Note that our conclusion is that it is not known whether the past is infinite, so assuming an infinite past, ad argumentam, is not assuming that conclusion. The point is that when we assume either option consistently, we find no contradictions in either case. The assumptions remain the same throughout each argument; we assume an infinite past, and find that there are no contradictions arising from consistent application of that assumption; or we assume a finite past and find that there are no contradictions arising from consistent application of that assumption; we conclude that logic cannot tell us which occurred.

If you assume an infinite past, and can only find a contradiction by simultaneously assuming a finite past, as part of the same argument, then that is a circular argument - a logical fallacy.

 

[skepticalbip]

I had fully responded to your comment. What you demanded was I respond again. After I fully respond to your comments you don't get to demand I do it again and again.

Blather.

If one claims the amount of time in the past is infinite that means they are claiming that every event that happened in the past happened in the past so has already "passed" before the present. Everything that happened yesterday happened yesterday, same for the day before, and the day before, and the day before, and the day before.....

If time is infinite in the past then the number of events in the past are infinite.

You are claiming an infinite number of events have already occurred before present events. An infinite number of events can't occur before any present event. There is no end to them.

You are the one blathering irrationalities.

Unless you are in Zeno mode, an infinite number of events occurring in an infinite amount of time (which there would be with an infinite past) is exactly what logic would say would have to happen.

How many events do you think would occur given infinite time?

How many events will occur in an infinite future?

But now this seems to imply that an infinite length of time can begin an infinite number of units of time ago and end today. Is this accurate?

NO.

If it began then it is finite. The bolded part is self-contradictory.

 

[ryan]

Unless you are in Zeno mode, an infinite number of events occurring in an infinite amount of time (which there would be with an infinite past) is exactly what logic would say would have to happen.

How many events do you think would occur given infinite time?

How many events will occur in an infinite future?

But now this seems to imply that an infinite length of time can begin an infinite number of units of time ago and end today. Is this accurate?

NO.

If it began then it is finite. The bolded part is self contridictory.

Are you saying that an infinite number of days that starts today can't finish an infinite number of days from today?

 

[skepticalbip]

Unless you are in Zeno mode, an infinite number of events occurring in an infinite amount of time (which there would be with an infinite past) is exactly what logic would say would have to happen.

How many events do you think would occur given infinite time?

How many events will occur in an infinite future?

But now this seems to imply that an infinite length of time can begin an infinite number of units of time ago and end today. Is this accurate?

NO.

If it began then it is finite. The bolded part is self contridictory.

Are you saying that an infinite number of days that starts today can't finish an infinite number of days from today?

NO. I'm not even sure that is a coherent sentence.

 

[bilby]

Unless you are in Zeno mode, an infinite number of events occurring in an infinite amount of time (which there would be with an infinite past) is exactly what logic would say would have to happen.

How many events do you think would occur given infinite time?

How many events will occur in an infinite future?

But now this seems to imply that an infinite length of time can begin an infinite number of units of time ago and end today. Is this accurate?

NO.

If it began then it is finite. The bolded part is self contridictory.

Are you saying that an infinite number of days that starts today can't finish an infinite number of days from today?

Not if it also has an end.

The question was "But now this seems to imply that an infinite length of time can begin an infinite number of units of time ago and end today. Is this accurate?"

If it both begins and ends, it isn't infinite. Accepting, for the sake of argument, that it ends today - which we all seem to be able to agree upon - the problem is that you are also assuming that it begins, which contradicts your statement that it is infinite.

 

[ryan]

Unless you are in Zeno mode, an infinite number of events occurring in an infinite amount of time (which there would be with an infinite past) is exactly what logic would say would have to happen.

How many events do you think would occur given infinite time?

How many events will occur in an infinite future?

But now this seems to imply that an infinite length of time can begin an infinite number of units of time ago and end today. Is this accurate?

NO.

If it began then it is finite. The bolded part is self contridictory.

Are you saying that an infinite number of days that starts today can't finish an infinite number of days from today?

NO. I'm not even sure that is a coherent sentence.

Yet you say, "an infinite number of events occurring in an infinite amount of time (which there would be with an infinite past) is exactly what logic would say would have to happen.". How exactly does something completely pass without a beginning and an end?

 

[bilby]

Unless you are in Zeno mode, an infinite number of events occurring in an infinite amount of time (which there would be with an infinite past) is exactly what logic would say would have to happen.

How many events do you think would occur given infinite time?

How many events will occur in an infinite future?

But now this seems to imply that an infinite length of time can begin an infinite number of units of time ago and end today. Is this accurate?

NO.

If it began then it is finite. The bolded part is self contridictory.

Are you saying that an infinite number of days that starts today can't finish an infinite number of days from today?

NO. I'm not even sure that is a coherent sentence.

Yet you say, "an infinite number of events occurring in an infinite amount of time (which there would be with an infinite past) is exactly what logic would say would have to happen.". How exactly does something completely pass without a beginning and an end?

By taking an infinite amount of time to do so.

 

[ryan]

Yet you say, "an infinite number of events occurring in an infinite amount of time (which there would be with an infinite past) is exactly what logic would say would have to happen.". How exactly does something completely pass without a beginning and an end?

By taking an infinite amount of time to do so.

If it's "all", then why can't we close the interval?

 

[skepticalbip]

Unless you are in Zeno mode, an infinite number of events occurring in an infinite amount of time (which there would be with an infinite past) is exactly what logic would say would have to happen.

How many events do you think would occur given infinite time?

How many events will occur in an infinite future?

But now this seems to imply that an infinite length of time can begin an infinite number of units of time ago and end today. Is this accurate?

NO.

If it began then it is finite. The bolded part is self contridictory.

Are you saying that an infinite number of days that starts today can't finish an infinite number of days from today?

NO. I'm not even sure that is a coherent sentence.

Yet you say, "an infinite number of events occurring in an infinite amount of time (which there would be with an infinite past) is exactly what logic would say would have to happen.". How exactly does something completely pass without a beginning and an end?

Nothing "passes". I am in the "reference frame" that contains time. All the past events that have already occured are on my right. All the future events that will occur are on my left. I am today. At midnight, I will put all the events that occured today neatly in line to my right. It is a hell of a job but, hey, sombody's gotta do it.

 

[bilby]

By taking an infinite amount of time to do so.

If it's "all", then why can't we close the interval?

If what is "all" what, why can't who close what interval?

Not one element of your question is comprehensible to me; can you be a little more explicit please?

 

[ryan]

Yet you say, "an infinite number of events occurring in an infinite amount of time (which there would be with an infinite past) is exactly what logic would say would have to happen.". How exactly does something completely pass without a beginning and an end?

Nothing "passes". I am in the "reference frame" that contains time. All the past events that have already occured are on my right. All the future events that will occur are on my left. I am today. At midnight, I will put all the events that occured today neatly in line to my right. It is a hell of a job but, hey, sombody's gotta do it.

So if the entire set of an infinite number of days, let's give it the cardinality of the natural numbers, passes jumps from your left to your right, are you saying that it didn't start at 1?

 

[ryan]

If it's "all", then why can't we close the interval?

If what is "all" what, why can't who close what interval?

Not one element of your question is comprehensible to me; can you be a little more explicit please?

"All" is infinite time.