Infinte Regress Timeline...

[bilby]

It does not. It says that no matter how far you go back, you can still go farther. Any point in time is still a finite number of days from today.

Okay, but my issue is with an infinite number days existing before today, not a finite number of days.

If ANY point in time is a finite number of days from today, then for ANY finite number of days you might choose as a possible duration of the past, your choice will be too small. Therefore the actual number of days in the past would have to be infinite. No real number of days can be the right answer, so infinity is all that is left.

 

[untermensche]

But by extending your statement, you render it untrue. After time passes, we call it the past, because that time has been added to the past that was already there.

The past that was already there is time that had passed previously.

But ALL time in the past is time that has passed. That is the way it works. It's not just something we observe. When time passes it becomes the past. There is no other way to become the past except as time that has passed.

If you think the some kind of past can just exist as a miracle and not as time that has passed you are talking nonsense.

Nonsense. Time passing is an observation; who is the observer? Time in the past may have been observed passing, or it may not.

If it is time in the past then by definition it MUST have been time that passed.

If there is a claim of infinite time in the past then that is the same as saying infinite time has passed.

The claim states it passed. Nobody has to observe it.

Nothing about the definition of 'infinite' implies the absence of an end; This has been shown to you repeatedly.

Bullshit. Infinite means to not end. Infinite time in the future is time that doesn't end.

An infinite future does not end. An infinite past does not begin...

Saying something doesn't begin is to say the amount of it doesn't end.

When will you realize this?

If you can imagine an infinite future, starting now, then why can't you also imagine the reverse - an infinite past, ending now?

The infinite past will end after the passage of as much time as an infinite future. If an infinite future represents an amount of time that doesn't end so does an infinite past.

 

[ryan]

It does not. It says that no matter how far you go back, you can still go farther. Any point in time is still a finite number of days from today.

Okay, but my issue is with an infinite number days existing before today, not a finite number of days.

An infinite number of days can exist before today while at the same time each day only lies a finite number of days before today.

What about the point in time that is an infinite number of days away? Wouldn't it be more than a finite number of days away?

 

[ryan]

Okay, but my issue is with an infinite number days existing before today, not a finite number of days.

If ANY point in time is a finite number of days from today, then for ANY finite number of days you might choose as a possible duration of the past, your choice will be too small. Therefore the actual number of days in the past would have to be infinite. No real number of days can be the right answer, so infinity is all that is left.

Here is my best argument.

Let's assume that there is some frame of reference that existed a countably infinite number of years ago from today. It would have had a beginning; it would have a first year.

On its first year, there is no upper bound for how many years can pass. Fast-forward an infinite number of years. If time ended today, then there is an upper bound for the same frame of reference. This is a clear contradiction.

 

[untermensche]

I wonder if you say anything correct in any threads?

I can't help but believe that Unter must hold some beliefs that are in line with reality. Survival would have been difficult otherwise. It is just that, in this thread, any understanding of anything to do with physics, science, and logic have been replaced with "pull it out yo arse" assertions.

This is the chattering of children.

I have not run from one argument.

And my original argument still stands as stated.

 

[beero1000]

It does not. It says that no matter how far you go back, you can still go farther. Any point in time is still a finite number of days from today.

Okay, but my issue is with an infinite number days existing before today, not a finite number of days.

An infinite number of days can exist before today while at the same time each day only lies a finite number of days before today.

What about the point in time that is an infinite number of days away? Wouldn't it be more than a finite number of days away?

If time is measured by the reals from this point, there is no point in time that is an infinite number of days away.

 

[ryan]

It does not. It says that no matter how far you go back, you can still go farther. Any point in time is still a finite number of days from today.

Okay, but my issue is with an infinite number days existing before today, not a finite number of days.

An infinite number of days can exist before today while at the same time each day only lies a finite number of days before today.

What about the point in time that is an infinite number of days away? Wouldn't it be more than a finite number of days away?

If time is measured by the reals from this point, there is no point in time that is an infinite number of days away.

My point is that an infinite number of days before today is not any finite number.

 

[beero1000]

It does not. It says that no matter how far you go back, you can still go farther. Any point in time is still a finite number of days from today.

Okay, but my issue is with an infinite number days existing before today, not a finite number of days.

An infinite number of days can exist before today while at the same time each day only lies a finite number of days before today.

What about the point in time that is an infinite number of days away? Wouldn't it be more than a finite number of days away?

If time is measured by the reals from this point, there is no point in time that is an infinite number of days away.

My point is that an infinite number of days before today is not a finite number.

Then your point is pointless.

 

[ryan]

It does not. It says that no matter how far you go back, you can still go farther. Any point in time is still a finite number of days from today.

Okay, but my issue is with an infinite number days existing before today, not a finite number of days.

An infinite number of days can exist before today while at the same time each day only lies a finite number of days before today.

What about the point in time that is an infinite number of days away? Wouldn't it be more than a finite number of days away?

If time is measured by the reals from this point, there is no point in time that is an infinite number of days away.

My point is that an infinite number of days before today is not a finite number.

Then your point is pointless.

It was an argument against what you said that I put in bold.

Now, do you still think that an infinite number of days can be completed by numbering each one with natural numbers?

 

[untermensche]

My point is that an infinite number of days before today is not any finite number.

For those who would say it does represent a finite number they would have to say which number.

 

[beero1000]

It does not. It says that no matter how far you go back, you can still go farther. Any point in time is still a finite number of days from today.

Okay, but my issue is with an infinite number days existing before today, not a finite number of days.

An infinite number of days can exist before today while at the same time each day only lies a finite number of days before today.

What about the point in time that is an infinite number of days away? Wouldn't it be more than a finite number of days away?

If time is measured by the reals from this point, there is no point in time that is an infinite number of days away.

My point is that an infinite number of days before today is not a finite number.

Then your point is pointless.

It was an argument against what you said that I put in bold.

Now, do you still think that an infinite number of days can be completed by numbering each one with natural numbers?

Do you seriously still not understand? There is no point in time that is an infinite number of days away from today.

 

[beero1000]

My point is that an infinite number of days before today is not any finite number.

For those who would say it does represent a finite number they would have to say which number.

I guess if you think that 0.999... < 1 then it is too much to ask that you grasp the difference between orderings of qualifiers.

Can you guess which one I said and which one you understood?

1. For every real x, there exists a finite number M such that -M < x < M.
2. There exists a finite number M such that for every real x, -M < x < M.

I'll leave you to it...

 

[untermensche]

For those who would say it does represent a finite number they would have to say which number.

I guess if you think that 0.999... < 1 then it is too much to ask that you grasp the difference between orderings of qualifiers.

What I think is that the nines never end. The series doesn't end.

To say there was infinite time in the past is to say an amount of time that doesn't end is in the past.

 

[ryan]

Do you seriously still not understand? There is no point in time that is an infinite number of days away from today.

So time that had points in it does not anymore? Time is usually defined to have points in it. What does this say about the prospect of time being infinite?

 

[skepticalbip]

I can't help but believe that Unter must hold some beliefs that are in line with reality. Survival would have been difficult otherwise. It is just that, in this thread, any understanding of anything to do with physics, science, and logic have been replaced with "pull it out yo arse" assertions.

This is the chattering of children.

I have not run from one argument.

And my original argument still stands as stated.

I didn't question that you believe it. I just showed that those who actually understand something about the subject and have the knowledge of physics to back their understanding disagree with you. You can believe whatever you want. 9-11 truthers also hold their beliefs. However, unsupported beliefs have nothing to do with reality. Reality doesn't give a shit what people believe.

 

[Kharakov]

And my original argument still stands as stated.

It's still completely incorrect, and is still worthless, except as contrast to the truth.

The truth is that "nothing" never existed, because it is impossible for something to come out of nothing. In other words, something always existed. The fact that something always existed means that the duration of existence of something (which may not always have been in the exact same form) is eternal.

There is absolutely no way that nothing ever existed, or will exist, except in the miniscule failure of any imagination unable to capture the grandeur of eternal reality.

 

[untermensche]

This is the chattering of children.

I have not run from one argument.

And my original argument still stands as stated.

I didn't question that you believe it. I just showed that those who actually understand something about the subject and have the knowledge of physics to back their understanding disagree with you. You can believe whatever you want. 9-11 truthers also hold their beliefs. However, unsupported beliefs have nothing to do with reality. Reality doesn't give a shit what people believe.

The argument stands.

If one claims the amount of time in the past is infinite they are claiming the amount of time that has passed in the past is infinite.

They are claiming there is no end to the amount of time that has passed in the past.

If an amount of time that has no end must finish passing before a present moment can exist then no present moment can exist because an amount of time that has no end never finishes passing.

If the past is infinite it will pass in the same amount of time an infinite future will pass. If one claims an infinite past can finish passing they are claiming an infinite amount of time in the future will finish passing.

Something tells me you won't address a word of it, once again.

 

[untermensche]

This is the chattering of children.

I have not run from one argument.

And my original argument still stands as stated.

I didn't question that you believe it. I just showed that those who actually understand something about the subject and have the knowledge of physics to back their understanding disagree with you. You can believe whatever you want. 9-11 truthers also hold their beliefs. However, unsupported beliefs have nothing to do with reality. Reality doesn't give a shit what people believe.

You are making the totally unsupported claim that the past can be infinite.

You are the one selling nonsense.

Your argument amounts to; It can be infinite because it can be infinite.

 

[skepticalbip]

I didn't question that you believe it. I just showed that those who actually understand something about the subject and have the knowledge of physics to back their understanding disagree with you. You can believe whatever you want. 9-11 truthers also hold their beliefs. However, unsupported beliefs have nothing to do with reality. Reality doesn't give a shit what people believe.

The argument stands.

If one claims the amount of time in the past is infinite they are claiming the amount of time that has passed in the past is infinite.

They are claiming there is no end to the amount of time that has passed in the past.

If an amount of time that has no end must finish passing before a present moment can exist then no present moment can exist because an amount of time that has no end never finishes passing.

If the past is infinite it will pass in the same amount of time an infinite future will pass. If one claims an infinite past can finish passing they are claiming an infinite amount of time in the future will finish passing.

Something tells me you won't address a word of it, once again.

How the fuck does anyone address illogical word salad to someone who refuses to even acknowledge logical fallacies when pointed out to them?

 

[beero1000]

Do you seriously still not understand? There is no point in time that is an infinite number of days away from today.

So time that had points in it does not anymore? Time is usually defined to have points in it. What does this say about the prospect of time being infinite?

What?