Infinte Regress Timeline...

[untermensche]

If the past is infinite that means there is a point in the past that occurred infinite days ago.

It really doesn't. Truly. beero1000 has even presented a mathematical proof of this:

You do realize I was mocking the idea that infinity is a number and that an infinity can finish?

 

[Kharakov]

It really doesn't. Truly. beero1000 has even presented a mathematical proof of this:

You do realize I was mocking the idea that infinity is a number and that an infinity can finish?

You've been told time and time again that we are referring to the concept of infinity, and numbers are used to elucidate the concept of infinity.

You failed to integrate the concept of indeterminate form into your "understanding" of infinity.

Why, pray tell, is  indeterminate form an important concept when coming to an understanding of infinity?

 

[untermensche]

You do realize I was mocking the idea that infinity is a number and that an infinity can finish?

You've been told time and time again that we are referring to the concept of infinity, and numbers are used to elucidate the concept of infinity.

You failed to integrate the concept of indeterminate form into your "understanding" of infinity.

Why, pray tell, is  indeterminate form an important concept when coming to an understanding of infinity?

Just put what you think are the salient points into your own words.

But if I say that time in the future is infinite have I said it will end at some future point?

 

[bilby]

It really doesn't. Truly. beero1000 has even presented a mathematical proof of this:

Take the real line as our measurement of time. This instant is at 0. For any real number x, that number is only a finite distance from 0. At the same time, for any choice of bound M there are real numbers farther from 0 than M.

So then did events that happened an infinite number of days ago never happen? It seems like all of these arguments are pointing towards a finite past.

No events happened an infinite number of days ago. If the past is infinite, then for ANY event, no matter how long ago it happened, there is infinite time before it happened. That is the nature of infinity.

 

[ryan]

It really doesn't. Truly. beero1000 has even presented a mathematical proof of this:

Take the real line as our measurement of time. This instant is at 0. For any real number x, that number is only a finite distance from 0. At the same time, for any choice of bound M there are real numbers farther from 0 than M.

So then did events that happened an infinite number of days ago never happen? It seems like all of these arguments are pointing towards a finite past.

No events happened an infinite number of days ago. If the past is infinite, then for ANY event, no matter how long ago it happened, there is infinite time before it happened. That is the nature of infinity.

The first sentence says that no events happened an infinite number of days ago. Does today happen if the future extends an infinite number of days from today?

 

[bilby]

It really doesn't. Truly. beero1000 has even presented a mathematical proof of this:

Take the real line as our measurement of time. This instant is at 0. For any real number x, that number is only a finite distance from 0. At the same time, for any choice of bound M there are real numbers farther from 0 than M.

So then did events that happened an infinite number of days ago never happen? It seems like all of these arguments are pointing towards a finite past.

No events happened an infinite number of days ago. If the past is infinite, then for ANY event, no matter how long ago it happened, there is infinite time before it happened. That is the nature of infinity.

The first sentence says that no events happened an infinite number of days ago, but your second sentence says otherwise.

No, it doesn't. Perhaps a little clarification would help:

No events happened an infinite number of days ago. If the past is infinite, then for ANY event, no matter how long ago it happened, there is a finite time since it happened, and there is infinite time before it happened. That is the nature of infinity.

Clear now?

 

[ryan]

It really doesn't. Truly. beero1000 has even presented a mathematical proof of this:

Take the real line as our measurement of time. This instant is at 0. For any real number x, that number is only a finite distance from 0. At the same time, for any choice of bound M there are real numbers farther from 0 than M.

So then did events that happened an infinite number of days ago never happen? It seems like all of these arguments are pointing towards a finite past.

No events happened an infinite number of days ago. If the past is infinite, then for ANY event, no matter how long ago it happened, there is infinite time before it happened. That is the nature of infinity.

The first sentence says that no events happened an infinite number of days ago, but your second sentence says otherwise.

No, it doesn't. Perhaps a little clarification would help:

No events happened an infinite number of days ago. If the past is infinite, then for ANY event, no matter how long ago it happened, there is a finite time since it happened, and there is infinite time before it happened. That is the nature of infinity.

Clear now?

Yeah I got it but edited too late. Can you respond to the edited version ?

 

[bilby]

It really doesn't. Truly. beero1000 has even presented a mathematical proof of this:

Take the real line as our measurement of time. This instant is at 0. For any real number x, that number is only a finite distance from 0. At the same time, for any choice of bound M there are real numbers farther from 0 than M.

So then did events that happened an infinite number of days ago never happen? It seems like all of these arguments are pointing towards a finite past.

No events happened an infinite number of days ago. If the past is infinite, then for ANY event, no matter how long ago it happened, there is infinite time before it happened. That is the nature of infinity.

The first sentence says that no events happened an infinite number of days ago. Does today happen if the future extends an infinite number of days from today?

If today does not happen, then from where does the future extend an infinite number of days?

Your question makes no sense.

 

[ryan]

If today does not happen, then from where does the future extend an infinite number of days?

Your question makes no sense.

You say that an event an infinite number of days ago did not happen. Does tomorrow happen if an infinite number of days pass from today?

Don't you see where I am going with this?

 

[bilby]

If today does not happen, then from where does the future extend an infinite number of days?

Your question makes no sense.

You say that an event an infinite number of days ago did not happen.

No, I am saying that the idea of an event an infinite number of days ago is nonsense; all events must have occurred a finite number of days ago, in the same way that the differences between zero and all of the real numbers are finite numbers. This does not in any way preclude the set of all real numbers being infinite; nor does it preclude the set of all days in the past being infinite.

Does tomorrow happen if an infinite number of days pass from today?

Yes.

Don't you see where I am going with this?

No.

 

[ryan]

You say that an event an infinite number of days ago did not happen.

No, I am saying that the idea of an event an infinite number of days ago is nonsense; all events must have occurred a finite number of days ago, in the same way that the differences between zero and all of the real numbers are finite numbers.

This does not in any way preclude the set of all real numbers being infinite; nor does it preclude the set of all days in the past being infinite.

Please explain how both sentences above can be true?

 

[bilby]

No, I am saying that the idea of an event an infinite number of days ago is nonsense; all events must have occurred a finite number of days ago, in the same way that the differences between zero and all of the real numbers are finite numbers.

This does not in any way preclude the set of all real numbers being infinite; nor does it preclude the set of all days in the past being infinite.

Please explain how both sentences above can be true?

An event occurs a defined point on the timeline. So it can be mapped to a real number; if we label the timeline in units such as hours, years, seconds, centuries, whatever, then any event in the past (or future) can be said to have occurred at a real number of units before (or after) the present. However, as the set of real numbers is infinite, the number of units of time before the present at which a given event occurs can be arbitrarily large. There is no limit to how long ago an event can be, any real number of units is possible.

Time is infinite; infinity is not a real number; no event can occur an infinite time ago. No matter how large the number of hours ago you place your estimate of the 'first' event in the timeline, it will always be possible for an earlier event to have occurred; Indeed at any given point in the past, the past remains infinite. The difference between any real number and infinity is still infinity, no matter how large a real number you imagine. The difference between any two real numbers is finite, no matter which two real numbers you choose to compare.

The timeline is not infinite because it ends at some number labelled 'infinity'; it is infinite because it is unbounded - it doesn't end anywhere. Infinity is a property of the line, not a location on it at which an event could occur.

 

[Kharakov]

You've been told time and time again that we are referring to the concept of infinity, and numbers are used to elucidate the concept of infinity.

You failed to integrate the concept of indeterminate form into your "understanding" of infinity.

Why, pray tell, is  indeterminate form an important concept when coming to an understanding of infinity?

Just put what you think are the salient points into your own words.

Specifically: \(\infty - \infty\). That's what you've been trying to do by going from negative infinity to 0. You're trying to add infinity to negative infinity to cancel them out. Neither is well defined, and results in mathematical and logical inconsistencies.

The point is that -infinity + infinity = today, yesterday, the day after tomorrow, 100 years ago, etc.- in other words every possible answer is encompassed, and no point is selected specifically following the rules of logic or mathematics, which is why it is called "indeterminate form".

So today is not well defined in terms of reality's infinite past or future existence. Today is well defined according to yesterday, 1000 years ago, or any finite measurement from today, not any infinite 'measurement' from infinity. Like bilby said, "the timeline is not infinite because it ends at some number labelled 'infinity'", infinity is boundless.

But if I say that time in the future is infinite have I said it will end at some future point?

No.

 

[ryan]

Please explain how both sentences above can be true?

An event occurs a defined point on the timeline. So it can be mapped to a real number; if we label the timeline in units such as hours, years, seconds, centuries, whatever, then any event in the past (or future) can be said to have occurred at a real number of units before (or after) the present. However, as the set of real numbers is infinite, the number of units of time before the present at which a given event occurs can be arbitrarily large. There is no limit to how long ago an event can be, any real number of units is possible.

Time is infinite; infinity is not a real number; no event can occur an infinite time ago. No matter how large the number of hours ago you place your estimate of the 'first' event in the timeline, it will always be possible for an earlier event to have occurred; Indeed at any given point in the past, the past remains infinite. The difference between any real number and infinity is still infinity, no matter how large a real number you imagine. The difference between any two real numbers is finite, no matter which two real numbers you choose to compare.

It seems like you're saying that the number of units of time between any two points on a timeline must be a finite number. Is that accurate?

 

[bilby]

An event occurs a defined point on the timeline. So it can be mapped to a real number; if we label the timeline in units such as hours, years, seconds, centuries, whatever, then any event in the past (or future) can be said to have occurred at a real number of units before (or after) the present. However, as the set of real numbers is infinite, the number of units of time before the present at which a given event occurs can be arbitrarily large. There is no limit to how long ago an event can be, any real number of units is possible.

Time is infinite; infinity is not a real number; no event can occur an infinite time ago. No matter how large the number of hours ago you place your estimate of the 'first' event in the timeline, it will always be possible for an earlier event to have occurred; Indeed at any given point in the past, the past remains infinite. The difference between any real number and infinity is still infinity, no matter how large a real number you imagine. The difference between any two real numbers is finite, no matter which two real numbers you choose to compare.

It seems like you're saying that the number of units of time between any two points on a timeline must be a finite number. Is that accurate?

Yes. I am not sure I could have made this any more clear

The timeline is not infinite because it ends at some number labelled 'infinity'; it is infinite because it is unbounded - it doesn't end anywhere. Infinity is a property of the line, not a location on it at which an event could occur.

 

[Mageth]

An event occurs a defined point on the timeline. So it can be mapped to a real number; if we label the timeline in units such as hours, years, seconds, centuries, whatever, then any event in the past (or future) can be said to have occurred at a real number of units before (or after) the present. However, as the set of real numbers is infinite, the number of units of time before the present at which a given event occurs can be arbitrarily large. There is no limit to how long ago an event can be, any real number of units is possible.

Time is infinite; infinity is not a real number; no event can occur an infinite time ago. No matter how large the number of hours ago you place your estimate of the 'first' event in the timeline, it will always be possible for an earlier event to have occurred; Indeed at any given point in the past, the past remains infinite. The difference between any real number and infinity is still infinity, no matter how large a real number you imagine. The difference between any two real numbers is finite, no matter which two real numbers you choose to compare.

It seems like you're saying that the number of units of time between any two points on a timeline must be a finite number. Is that accurate?

Basic geometry, ryan. Pick any two points on a line. The two points define a line segment. The length of a line segment is finite. Yet the line is infinite in length.

 

[ryan]

It seems like you're saying that the number of units of time between any two points on a timeline must be a finite number. Is that accurate?

Yes. I am not sure I could have made this any more clear

But there still could be an infinite number of days between today and all days in the past.

 

[Kharakov]

And there are infinitesimal line segments in 3, 2, ...

 

[ryan]

It seems like you're saying that the number of units of time between any two points on a timeline must be a finite number. Is that accurate?

Basic geometry, ryan. Pick any two points on a line. The two points define a line segment. The length of a line segment is finite. Yet the line is infinite in length.

I know that.

 

[ryan]

And there are infinitesimal line segments in 3, 2, ...

Okay, then there is a dimension of time that sees our units of time as infinitesimals, but we don't see our units of time as infinitesimals.