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Is Crypto dying or just dropping for the moment?

ZiprHead said:
Politesse said:
Transactions aren't the issue, except insofar as they are motivators for production. It has to do with the vast amounts of energy consumed when "mining" a new Bitcoin. This isn't a problem in a relatively carbon-neutral power grid like Musk's Bay Area haunts, but if you're burning, say, dirty coal to produce Bitcoin, the cost of the digital land grab can get extensive. And even on a cleaner grid we could still ask whether it makes sense, given limited environmental resources, to commit an entire nation's worth of electrical production to "mining" pretend money with little real utility.

You can read more at this link:
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Russia's largest bitcoin mining farm.

View attachment 33621

Not a problem when the taxpayers pay the electric bill but the profits go to the elite.
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That image makes me want to listen to Bone Thugs in Harmony's "For the Love of Money".
 
Gospel said:
I dunno yo. I don't have that data but it doesn't take a Rocket Scientist (winks at Bomb#69) to believe that Cryptocurrency has time to adjust before having a footprint as large as one that was around before the industrial revolution.
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I'm not sure you quite grasp the scale of the operation. At present, about 0.6% of our entire planet's electricity generation is going toward producing these coin tokens, which currently have very few real uses aside from creating tradable but fictive value for other hobbyists. If they were to catch on as a real currency, the demand for the fucking things would only exponentially increase. This makes very little logical sense as an allocation of our resources. It dwarfs the total energy output of the planet before the Industrial Revolution by an enormous margin, let alone the portion formerly used to print money specifically.
 
Politesse said:
Gospel said:
I dunno yo. I don't have that data but it doesn't take a Rocket Scientist (winks at Bomb#69) to believe that Cryptocurrency has time to adjust before having a footprint as large as one that was around before the industrial revolution.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure you quite grasp the scale of the operation. At present, about 0.6% of our entire planet's electricity generation is going toward producing these coin tokens, which currently have very few real uses aside from creating tradable but fictive value for other hobbyists. If they were to catch on as a real currency, the demand for the fucking things would only exponentially increase. This makes very little logical sense as an allocation of our resources. It dwarfs the total energy output of the planet before the Industrial Revolution by an enormous margin, let alone the portion formerly used to print money specifically.
Click to expand...

I believe you. I also believe that people across the planet have done a lot of stuff for money long before Crypto has been around. I'm also not saying monetary systems are bad. I'm saying as far as the toll on our environment goes the mining for money is a symptom, not the cause. I believe you know this and can put it in better words than I. But yes, cryptocurrency is definitely an issue and most definitely not the only one.

Edit: As far as currency and the environment is concerned.
Edit2: and by mining for money I mean grinding for money.
 
Gospel said:
Politesse said:
Transactions aren't the issue, except insofar as they are motivators for production. It has to do with the vast amounts of energy consumed when "mining" a new Bitcoin. This isn't a problem in a relatively carbon-neutral power grid like Musk's Bay Area haunts, but if you're burning, say, dirty coal to produce Bitcoin, the cost of the digital land grab can get extensive. And even on a cleaner grid we could still ask whether it makes sense, given limited environmental resources, to commit an entire nation's worth of electrical production to "mining" pretend money with little real utility.

You can read more at this link:
Click to expand...

Man if bitcoin is using up that much energy I can't even imagine how much power is consumed by banking institutions, their buildings, ATM machines, the VISA, MASTERCARD, AMEX transactions over the internet, armored vehicles, and so on. They must make Crypto power consumption look like 1/8 in comparison to 6/8 of an inch on a ruler.
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This comparison makes no sense.

BitCoin explicitly is made to use a huge amount of computing power in mining. That says nothing about the computing power used by other things.
 
Jarhyn said:
Not to mention the fact that it's wholely unnecessary.

You can have a coin wherein the metric is not "useless Busywork" for determining who, when, and why blocks get awarded.

It isn't pretend money though. It's as real as any other currency, the sum total of which are just schemes for exchanging ownership of otherwise numbers within a context, and occasionally other forms of non-reproducible tokens.

Ultimately, the energy we waste on bitcoin's meaningless and pointless busywork is significant because it is the destruction of intrinsic value (the power to do meaningful work) in exchange for an arbitrary assignment of numbers. At no point should we be destroying intrinsics when we can absolutely do not-that.
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You can't have mining without having some sort of busywork.

However, there's a greener cryptocurrency that has come about recently: ChiaCoin. Instead of using huge amounts of computing power it uses huge amounts of storage.
 
Politesse said:
Gospel said:
I dunno yo. I don't have that data but it doesn't take a Rocket Scientist (winks at Bomb#69) to believe that Cryptocurrency has time to adjust before having a footprint as large as one that was around before the industrial revolution.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure you quite grasp the scale of the operation. At present, about 0.6% of our entire planet's electricity generation is going toward producing these coin tokens, which currently have very few real uses aside from creating tradable but fictive value for other hobbyists. If they were to catch on as a real currency, the demand for the fucking things would only exponentially increase. This makes very little logical sense as an allocation of our resources. It dwarfs the total energy output of the planet before the Industrial Revolution by an enormous margin, let alone the portion formerly used to print money specifically.
Click to expand...

Hobbyists? I think it's mostly for the criminal element.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
Gospel said:
Politesse said:
Transactions aren't the issue, except insofar as they are motivators for production. It has to do with the vast amounts of energy consumed when "mining" a new Bitcoin. This isn't a problem in a relatively carbon-neutral power grid like Musk's Bay Area haunts, but if you're burning, say, dirty coal to produce Bitcoin, the cost of the digital land grab can get extensive. And even on a cleaner grid we could still ask whether it makes sense, given limited environmental resources, to commit an entire nation's worth of electrical production to "mining" pretend money with little real utility.

You can read more at this link:
Click to expand...

Man if bitcoin is using up that much energy I can't even imagine how much power is consumed by banking institutions, their buildings, ATM machines, the VISA, MASTERCARD, AMEX transactions over the internet, armored vehicles, and so on. They must make Crypto power consumption look like 1/8 in comparison to 6/8 of an inch on a ruler.
Click to expand...

This comparison makes no sense.

BitCoin explicitly is made to use a huge amount of computing power in mining. That says nothing about the computing power used by other things.
Click to expand...

cryptocurrency is a currency. Money is a currency. What crypto miners do for cryptocurrency is rightfully comparable with what people do for other currencies. They do it for the currency and no other reason.
 
Ok, that made no sense to yall. I know. It's a combination of my drunkness and not thinking like white people. Put it this way, I converted 5 bitcoin to $150K after taxes. I did it in the beginning (when it first started) with the promise of it being worth something later. My motivation was to exchange it for something of value to me at a later date. Which I did (paid for my momma's house). So what is the difference between cryptocurrency and any other currency when the motivation is to get something that represents value in exchange for something else? Sure, if you want to separate it because of the means & fuck the ends, go for it. It all comes from the same place.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
Jarhyn said:
Not to mention the fact that it's wholely unnecessary.

You can have a coin wherein the metric is not "useless Busywork" for determining who, when, and why blocks get awarded.

It isn't pretend money though. It's as real as any other currency, the sum total of which are just schemes for exchanging ownership of otherwise numbers within a context, and occasionally other forms of non-reproducible tokens.

Ultimately, the energy we waste on bitcoin's meaningless and pointless busywork is significant because it is the destruction of intrinsic value (the power to do meaningful work) in exchange for an arbitrary assignment of numbers. At no point should we be destroying intrinsics when we can absolutely do not-that.
Click to expand...

You can't have mining without having some sort of busywork.

However, there's a greener cryptocurrency that has come about recently: ChiaCoin. Instead of using huge amounts of computing power it uses huge amounts of storage.
Click to expand...
And apparently consumes SSD drives.
 
Gospel said:
I believe you. I also believe that people across the planet have done a lot of stuff for money long before Crypto has been around. I'm also not saying monetary systems are bad. I'm saying as far as the toll on our environment goes the mining for money is a symptom, not the cause.
Click to expand...
Well, this much is most certainly true.
 
Gospel said:
Ok, that made no sense to yall. I know. It's a combination of my drunkness and not thinking like white people. Put it this way, I converted 5 bitcoin to $150K after taxes. I did it in the beginning (when it first started) with the promise of it being worth something later. My motivation was to exchange it for something of value to me at a later date. Which I did (paid for my momma's house). So what is the difference between cryptocurrency and any other currency when the motivation is to get something that represents value in exchange for something else? Sure, if you want to separate it because of the means & fuck the ends, go for it. It all comes from the same place.
Click to expand...
I got it, you entered a Ponzi scheme early and got out with a profit, good for you.
 
barbos said:
Gospel said:
Ok, that made no sense to yall. I know. It's a combination of my drunkness and not thinking like white people. Put it this way, I converted 5 bitcoin to $150K after taxes. I did it in the beginning (when it first started) with the promise of it being worth something later. My motivation was to exchange it for something of value to me at a later date. Which I did (paid for my momma's house). So what is the difference between cryptocurrency and any other currency when the motivation is to get something that represents value in exchange for something else? Sure, if you want to separate it because of the means & fuck the ends, go for it. It all comes from the same place.
Click to expand...
I got it, you entered a Ponzi scheme early and got out with a profit, good for you.
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You use fiat currency printed with fantasy debt attached to it.
 
barbos said:
Gospel said:
You're right. I thought I saw a meaningful contribution to the discussion from barbos.
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And lots of people don't see things which are clearly there.
You participated in a Ponzi scheme.
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What is a Ponzi scheme to you? What I did was, use a computer I was already using for other things to mine 5 bitcoins. Years later I was able to exchange it for cash. In a Ponzi scheme don't you have to give someone fiat currency?
 
Gospel said:
barbos said:
Gospel said:
You're right. I thought I saw a meaningful contribution to the discussion from barbos.
Click to expand...

And lots of people don't see things which are clearly there.
You participated in a Ponzi scheme.
Click to expand...

What is a Ponzi scheme to you? What I did was, use a computer I was already using for other things to mine 5 bitcoins. Years later I was able to exchange it for cash. In a Ponzi scheme don't you have to give someone fiat currency?
Click to expand...
The fact that you "mined" it is an irrelevant variation. And you paid for electricity/computer. You got paid by people who entered the game later.
 
barbos said:
Gospel said:
What is a Ponzi scheme to you? What I did was, use a computer I was already using for other things to mine 5 bitcoins. Years later I was able to exchange it for cash. In a Ponzi scheme don't you have to give someone fiat currency?
Click to expand...
The fact that you "mined" it is an irrelevant variation. And you paid for electricity/computer. You got paid by people who entered the game later.
Click to expand...

I was paying for Electricity/Computer before and well after I quit mining. How is my mining irrelevant to participating in (as you put it) the Ponzi scheme? In what other way could I have participated in said Bitcoin Ponzi scheme without Bitcoin mining? Are you drunk too?
 
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