Is it time for everyone to get VPN?

[Underseer]

Whoops, that title should end in a question mark.

Every time we turn around, more entities are sniffing our network traffic, from corporations selling our browsing habits to other corporations, ISPs turning over information to the government, and of course hackers, malware, etc.

Now on top of everything else, we've lost net neutrality, so your ISP may slow down or block certain web sites.

Is it time for everyone to get VPN and start thinking of it as a basic and necessary utility?

If so, which VPN service is best?


Random article comparing different VPN vendors:
http://www.techradar.com/vpn/best-vpn

 

[Loren Pechtel]

More and more websites are HTTPS already--even without a VPN all a snoop will know is where you go, not what you look at.

 

[Underseer]

More and more websites are HTTPS already--even without a VPN all a snoop will know is where you go, not what you look at.

HTTPS has nothing to do with why so many people have been getting VPN in recent years. I'm not sure why you thought that was relevant to the discussion. With or without HTTPS, 3^rd parties can sniff out what web sites you're going to, as can your ISP, who can slow down or block your traffic based on where the traffic is going.

With VPN, they can see your traffic going to the VPN server, but can they track it past that?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

More and more websites are HTTPS already--even without a VPN all a snoop will know is where you go, not what you look at.

HTTPS has nothing to do with why so many people have been getting VPN in recent years. I'm not sure why you thought that was relevant to the discussion. With or without HTTPS, 3^rd parties can sniff out what web sites you're going to, as can your ISP, who can slow down or block your traffic based on where the traffic is going.

With VPN, they can see your traffic going to the VPN server, but can they track it past that?

Yeah, they know where I'm going. So what?

And if they're going to play throttling games I would expect the VPN connections to be at the top of the list of targets.

 

[jonatha]

More and more websites are HTTPS already--even without a VPN all a snoop will know is where you go, not what you look at.

HTTPS has nothing to do with why so many people have been getting VPN in recent years. I'm not sure why you thought that was relevant to the discussion. With or without HTTPS, 3^rd parties can sniff out what web sites you're going to, as can your ISP, who can slow down or block your traffic based on where the traffic is going.

With VPN, they can see your traffic going to the VPN server, but can they track it past that?

So instead of having to trust your ISP you have to trust your VPN provider....

 

[TV and credit cards]

More and more websites are HTTPS already--even without a VPN all a snoop will know is where you go, not what you look at.

HTTPS has nothing to do with why so many people have been getting VPN in recent years. I'm not sure why you thought that was relevant to the discussion. With or without HTTPS, 3^rd parties can sniff out what web sites you're going to, as can your ISP, who can slow down or block your traffic based on where the traffic is going.

With VPN, they can see your traffic going to the VPN server, but can they track it past that?

Yeah, they know where I'm going. So what?

And if they're going to play throttling games I would expect the VPN connections to be at the top of the list of targets.

This is what I would assume. Like a website getting pissed off about an ad blocker, my ISP would similarly get pissed off if I suddenly became just so much digital gibberish to them. What am I to do, switch to the only other fully functioning ISP that does the same thing? Your choice is between A or B with no distinguishable difference in price or service. For the end user, there is no competition when the only difference is the name of the company. ISPs are for all intents and purposes a utility that are not treated as such. The choice is between having internet of not.

 

[Underseer]

More and more websites are HTTPS already--even without a VPN all a snoop will know is where you go, not what you look at.

HTTPS has nothing to do with why so many people have been getting VPN in recent years. I'm not sure why you thought that was relevant to the discussion. With or without HTTPS, 3^rd parties can sniff out what web sites you're going to, as can your ISP, who can slow down or block your traffic based on where the traffic is going.

With VPN, they can see your traffic going to the VPN server, but can they track it past that?

Yeah, they know where I'm going. So what?

And if they're going to play throttling games I would expect the VPN connections to be at the top of the list of targets.

Well, for starters, your ISP could slow down or block traffic to someone offering a competing VOIP service so that you will buy theirs.

They might slow down or block traffic to Netflix so that you will instead buy their streaming service.

They might slow down or block traffic to a web site because the web site isn't paying them enough money for access to you.

They might slow down or block traffic to a web site because you didn't pay them extra for access to that web site.

They might block traffic to certain news sites because they published news articles that they find embarassing or otherwise inconvenient in some way.

And I'm sure you can't be ignorant of the privacy issues the tech world has been talking about for a while now. If nothing else, it makes use of public WiFi a heck of a lot safer. So you find the current rush to VPN use unwarranted?

 

[Underseer]

For any non-tech people reading this, perhaps I should have posted this link sooner:

https://www.pcmag.com/article/352757/you-need-a-vpn-and-heres-why

 

[Kharakov]

Some net tech I was just talking to told me he tors into everything. I don't know what the fuck he's doing that he's hiding his stuff (other than being one of the "really lucky" guys in life, but the poor are too stupid to fuck those people up anyway), but he just says "I like the anonymity".

 

[bilby]

Some net tech I was just talking to told me he tors into everything. I don't know what the fuck he's doing that he's hiding his stuff (other than being one of the "really lucky" guys in life, but the poor are too stupid to fuck those people up anyway), but he just says "I like the anonymity".

If you only use encryption/VPN/TOR when you are doing something you don't want the authorities to know about, then the simple fact that you start using these things is enough to tip them off that you are up to something - even if they don't know exactly what it is.

The effectiveness of anonymizing technologies is dramatically greater when they are used for everything. It is a massively harder task for the NSA to decrypt and analyze every single scrap of traffic you send, than it is for them to decrypt and analyze only the tiny fraction of traffic you choose to encrypt because it contains something you want to keep secret.

The occasional use of security is itself a security risk - you might as well send the FBI an email saying "I am now doing something dodgy" each time your data suddenly becomes untraceable or unreadable. But if untraceable and unreadable is the norm, the change from sending emails to your mum on her birthday, to sending emails to your co-conspirators in a sinister plot, is seamless and unremarkable.

 

[dendrast]

How do you explain it to your mum when the FBI show up at her door?

Oh, I see. You don't let on.

Mums are always the last to know anyway.

 

[bilby]

How do you explain it to your mum when the FBI show up at her door?

Oh, I see. You don't let on.

Mums are always the last to know anyway.

If the FBI turn up at my mum's place, she will tell them to piss off, as the UK is outside their jurisdiction - and they will be about as far away from my current location as they could get, without joining the space program.

 

[Underseer]

Some net tech I was just talking to told me he tors into everything. I don't know what the fuck he's doing that he's hiding his stuff (other than being one of the "really lucky" guys in life, but the poor are too stupid to fuck those people up anyway), but he just says "I like the anonymity".

Maybe you should read the article I posted.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

I have been looking into a VPN myself. I have been looking at slash.dot for the best lifetime deal I can get. Just because. So many leaks as of late so I would like to do important stuff, like banking with as much security as I can get. My other project is to harden my OS. Putting browsers in jails for example. (Firejail).

 

[braces_for_impact]

This is a pretty good article about various VPN to use for what services. I've used Gizmo's freeware for years and consider the site very trustworthy and the advice solid.

 

[whollygoats]

Some net tech I was just talking to told me he tors into everything. I don't know what the fuck he's doing that he's hiding his stuff (other than being one of the "really lucky" guys in life, but the poor are too stupid to fuck those people up anyway), but he just says "I like the anonymity".

If you only use encryption/VPN/TOR when you are doing something you don't want the authorities to know about, then the simple fact that you start using these things is enough to tip them off that you are up to something - even if they don't know exactly what it is.

The effectiveness of anonymizing technologies is dramatically greater when they are used for everything. It is a massively harder task for the NSA to decrypt and analyze every single scrap of traffic you send, than it is for them to decrypt and analyze only the tiny fraction of traffic you choose to encrypt because it contains something you want to keep secret.

The occasional use of security is itself a security risk - you might as well send the FBI an email saying "I am now doing something dodgy" each time your data suddenly becomes untraceable or unreadable. But if untraceable and unreadable is the norm, the change from sending emails to your mum on her birthday, to sending emails to your co-conspirators in a sinister plot, is seamless and unremarkable.

Sometimes it is easiest, best, and least expensive to hide in plain sight.

 

[Coleman Smith]

I recommend using a V.P.N. over public WiFi.

Otherwise it just slows down traffic.

 

[Shake]

I have a co-worker who uses ixquick for all of his online searches.

 

[Coleman Smith]

Now posting from the Czech Republic.

Be aware that many V.P.N.'s log and probably sell their logs to advertisers, the F.B.I. and the C.I.A.

I think that's how they found out that a I am the commander of the First Atheist Militia of Kansas.

 

[Underseer]

Now posting from the Czech Republic.

Be aware that many V.P.N.'s log and probably sell their logs to advertisers, the F.B.I. and the C.I.A.

I think that's how they found out that a I am the commander of the First Atheist Militia of Kansas.

Yeah, that's a concern, and we don't really know if those VPN companies are deleting their logs as they claim.

I went with the overpriced Norton VPN because I figured that if they got caught selling logs, it would risk their other moneymaking operations. I have absolutely no reason to trust them other than that.