Politics Is it time for the west to assemble an army and kick Putin out of Ukraine?

[laughing dog]

How many times must I say "yes" before you recognize that I answered "yes". Never mind, if you don't pay attention to my answers you can say I never answer. Of course you equivocate between "The US Government" and "The US", but that is expected these days because people have forgotten how to tell them apart.

By the way, saying the US GOVERNMENT should do nothing is not the same as saying the US people should do nothing.

Suppose the US people want the US government to do something?

I would assume that those who really want to do something have already caught a flight to the area and joined in the fray. Several have but apparently you haven't yet. If you really think you should support the Ukraine but don't want to get your hands dirty, then you could at least financially donate a few thousand dollars (weapons are expensive) to support the Ukraine defense here...

https://war.ukraine.ua/donate/

The problem is the war hawks who want the government to get involved in yet another war but want others to be sent, not themselves.

That is non-responsive to my question. Moreover that facile response ignores the obvious problem of economies of scale in revenue collection and armament purchases.

Economics of scale? If a third of the population of the U.S. really, really wanted to help the Ukraine and donated a couple thousand dollars each to the Ukrainian war effort then that would be several hundred billion dollars. If a third of the population volunteered to fight then they could, with the Ukrainians overrun Moscow.

I agree if we lived in your fantasy world and people felt you did, then the US gov't would not feel compelled to send aid to Ukraine. But we don't live in your fantasy world. So your replies are literally non-responsive to the question "What the US people want the US gov't to do something?"

But you are right, if only you did such things then it wouldn't be enough to be noticed by the Ukraine but it may make you feel like you, at least, contributed something toward the outcome you want. Bitching in an internet forum isn't personally contributing to the aid of Ukraine.

True, discussing things on the internet will not immediately help Ukraine. Of course, being Putin's bitch on the internet will not immediately help Russia's cause either.

 

[skepticalbip]

How many times must I say "yes" before you recognize that I answered "yes". Never mind, if you don't pay attention to my answers you can say I never answer. Of course you equivocate between "The US Government" and "The US", but that is expected these days because people have forgotten how to tell them apart.

By the way, saying the US GOVERNMENT should do nothing is not the same as saying the US people should do nothing.

Suppose the US people want the US government to do something?

I would assume that those who really want to do something have already caught a flight to the area and joined in the fray. Several have but apparently you haven't yet. If you really think you should support the Ukraine but don't want to get your hands dirty, then you could at least financially donate a few thousand dollars (weapons are expensive) to support the Ukraine defense here...

https://war.ukraine.ua/donate/

The problem is the war hawks who want the government to get involved in yet another war but want others to be sent, not themselves.

That is non-responsive to my question. Moreover that facile response ignores the obvious problem of economies of scale in revenue collection and armament purchases.

Economics of scale? If a third of the population of the U.S. really, really wanted to help the Ukraine and donated a couple thousand dollars each to the Ukrainian war effort then that would be several hundred billion dollars. If a third of the population volunteered to fight then they could, with the Ukrainians overrun Moscow.

I agree if we lived in your fantasy world and people felt you did, then the US gov't would not feel compelled to send aid to Ukraine. But we don't live in your fantasy world. So your replies are literally non-responsive to the question "What the US people want the US gov't to do something?"

Such people don't understand the purpose and limited authority given to the U.S government when it was formed by the people. Such people think the U.S. should be the world's police force exerting its power around the world to force other nations to live by they think other nations should be.

But you are right, if only you did such things then it wouldn't be enough to be noticed by the Ukraine but it may make you feel like you, at least, contributed something toward the outcome you want. Bitching in an internet forum isn't personally contributing to the aid of Ukraine.

True, discussing things on the internet will not immediately help Ukraine. Of course, being Putin's bitch on the internet will not immediately help Russia's cause either.

That is a fucking snarky assertion. Again, if you think something should be done then do it, don't demand that others do it.

 

[laughing dog]

Such people don't understand the purpose and limited authority given to the U.S government when it was formed by the people. Such people think the U.S. should be the world's police force exerting its power around the world to force other nations to live by they think other nations should be.

Some people have no clue what it means to live in a democratic society. Sometimes gov't responds to the will of the people even when that will is not unanimous.

The notion that sending aid to Ukraine is acting like a police force is simply stupid.

That is a fucking snarky assertion.

You're the one whose ideas are a boon to Russia. Deal with it.

Again, if you think something should be done then do it, don't demand that others do it.

That is a fucking snarky assertion as well. If you think that asking one's gov't to do something is inimcial to living in democratic society, you are wrong.

 

[skepticalbip]

Such people don't understand the purpose and limited authority given to the U.S government when it was formed by the people. Such people think the U.S. should be the world's police force exerting its power around the world to force other nations to live by they think other nations should be.

Some people have no clue what it means to live in a democratic society. Sometimes gov't responds to the will of the people even when that will is not unanimous.

The notion that sending aid to Ukraine is acting like a police force is simply stupid.

You really don't know anything about our government and its constitutional authority. The U.S. is not a democracy; it is a Constitutional republic. Even if 95% of the population wanted the government to do something, if that power was not granted to it in the Constitution then the Constitution would have to be amended before the government could legally do it.

That is a fucking snarky assertion.

You're the one whose ideas are a boon to Russia. Deal with it.

Again, if you think something should be done then do it, don't demand that others do it.

That is a fucking snarky assertion as well. If you think that asking one's gov't to do something is inimcial to living in democratic society, you are wrong.

Again, the U.S. is not a Democracy. And then what you are advocating is just your wanting for others to do what you are unwilling to do yourself.

 

[laughing dog]

Such people don't understand the purpose and limited authority given to the U.S government when it was formed by the people. Such people think the U.S. should be the world's police force exerting its power around the world to force other nations to live by they think other nations should be.

Some people have no clue what it means to live in a democratic society. Sometimes gov't responds to the will of the people even when that will is not unanimous.

The notion that sending aid to Ukraine is acting like a police force is simply stupid.

You really don't know anything about our government and its constitutional authority.
The U.S. is not a democracy; it is a Constitutional republic. Even if 95% of the population wanted the government to do something, if that power was not granted to it in the Constitution then the Constitution would have to be amended before the government could legally do it.

The US gov't has the authority to send arms to Ukraine, so what on earth are you on about?

Again, the U.S. is not a Democracy.

For some reason, you think representatives in constitutional republic should not represent the people who vote for them in a democratic process.

And then what you are advocating is just your wanting for others to do what you are unwilling to do yourself.

I live in the real world, not some libertarian dystopia. Asking or expecting the US gov't to send aid to Ukraine is not making an unconstitutional or unreasonable demand.

Finally, you have no clue what I am or am not willing to do myself.

 

[skepticalbip]

Such people don't understand the purpose and limited authority given to the U.S government when it was formed by the people. Such people think the U.S. should be the world's police force exerting its power around the world to force other nations to live by they think other nations should be.

Some people have no clue what it means to live in a democratic society. Sometimes gov't responds to the will of the people even when that will is not unanimous.

The notion that sending aid to Ukraine is acting like a police force is simply stupid.

You really don't know anything about our government and its constitutional authority.
The U.S. is not a democracy; it is a Constitutional republic. Even if 95% of the population wanted the government to do something, if that power was not granted to it in the Constitution then the Constitution would have to be amended before the government could legally do it.

The US gov't has the authority to send arms to Ukraine, so what on earth are you on about?

Again, the U.S. is not a Democracy.

For some reason, you think representatives in constitutional republic should not represent the people who vote for them in a democratic process.

And then what you are advocating is just your wanting for others to do what you are unwilling to do yourself.

I live in the real world, not some libertarian dystopia. Asking or expecting the US gov't to send aid to Ukraine is not making an unconstitutional or unreasonable demand.

Finally, you have no clue what I am or am not willing to do myself.

Let me know when you learn a little about our governmental system and then we can continue.

 

[laughing dog]

Let me know when you learn a little about our governmental system and then we can continue.

You have produced not one iota of evidence to support your implicit claim that either sending aid to Ukraine or even sending troops is unconstitutional. Your position shows either a strong unwillingness or a deep ignorance of how our democratically elected representative form of government operates. So, you resort to another fucking snarky straw man to evade intelligent discussion.

 

[TSwizzle]

Amigo: I don't think that it's fair to call people who want to help Ukraine "war hawks". This isn't some "me macho, let's go" motivation. I think that most people just want the war to stop. Considering the fact that Russian goals were (are?) to conquer all Ukraine and "de-nazifiy" it, western aid has probably saved thousands of Ukranian lives.

Without a doubt what is happening in Ukraine is barbaric and unjust and no doubt gets people all emotional. But it's not the USA's problem to solve by getting into another military adventure. The time to save Ukraine has passed. Let the Europeans get on with it. All that is happening now is prolonging the conflict and costing the US tax payer billions of dollars.

I don't agree. IMO, if Russia had been able to accomplish their goals in Ukraine in the first couple weeks, that Nato would be at war today with Russia. The Russians want war. They want the countries that they lost after losing the cold war. It would have been far far far more expensive for us today if we were directly fighting Russia. Sending support to the country that is willing to fight and degrade an imperialistic power is a very very good investment.

Russians want a war? "They" (Russians?) want the Soviet Union back? A bit speculative unless there is hard intelligence to that effect. If there isn't I'm sure it could be conjured up, WMD anyone?

I think there a few people here treating this event as some sort of board game like RISK in Seinfeld.

If Russia fails, it may also persuade other imperialistic powers to keep their troops home.

China?


Anyway, I'll watch from the sidelines as my tax dollars get lobbed at a problem that 'aint mine.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Amigo: I don't think that it's fair to call people who want to help Ukraine "war hawks". This isn't some "me macho, let's go" motivation. I think that most people just want the war to stop. Considering the fact that Russian goals were (are?) to conquer all Ukraine and "de-nazifiy" it, western aid has probably saved thousands of Ukranian lives.

Without a doubt what is happening in Ukraine is barbaric and unjust and no doubt gets people all emotional. But it's not the USA's problem to solve by getting into another military adventure. The time to save Ukraine has passed. Let the Europeans get on with it. All that is happening now is prolonging the conflict and costing the US tax payer billions of dollars.

I don't agree. IMO, if Russia had been able to accomplish their goals in Ukraine in the first couple weeks, that Nato would be at war today with Russia. The Russians want war. They want the countries that they lost after losing the cold war. It would have been far far far more expensive for us today if we were directly fighting Russia. Sending support to the country that is willing to fight and degrade an imperialistic power is a very very good investment.

Russians want a war? "They" (Russians?) want the Soviet Union back? A bit speculative unless there is hard intelligence to that effect. If there isn't I'm sure it could be conjured up, WMD anyone?

I think there a few people here treating this event as some sort of board game like RISK in Seinfeld.

If Russia fails, it may also persuade other imperialistic powers to keep their troops home.

China?


Anyway, I'll watch from the sidelines as my tax dollars get lobbed at a problem that 'aint mine.

Of course China! What do you think would happen to our economy if China were to invade Taiwan? Do you use any products that rely on chips? I'm sorry to say but the world truely is flat today. We rely on a global supply chain that only works well when countries aren't at war (or doing a pandemic). Were you as concerned about American globalism as when Bush invaded Iraq?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

If you think that asking one's gov't to do something is inimcial to living in democratic society, you are wrong.

I know this is a point you really detest, but we live in a country where there are things the government is not allowed to do. The Bill of Rights has a long list of such things. Suppose the majority wants to suppress freedom of speech, the press, and religion - would you say majority rules or would you say violation of rights?

I would say that said moves are a violation of the rights of the people, even if the majority wanted such a thing. It is known that you disagree with me on everything.

It is somewhat snarky to suggest that those who want intervention should act upon their beliefs - their belief is that poor people and foreign people should bear the burden for them.

 

[laughing dog]

If you think that asking one's gov't to do something is inimcial to living in democratic society, you are wrong.

I know this is a point you really detest, but we live in a country where there are things the government is not allowed to do. The Bill of Rights has a long list of such things. Suppose the majority wants to suppress freedom of speech, the press, and religion - would you say majority rules or would you say violation of rights?

I would say that said moves are a violation of the rights of the people, even if the majority wanted such a thing. It is known that you disagree with me on everything.

It is somewhat snarky to suggest that those who want intervention should act upon their beliefs - their belief is that poor people and foreign people should bear the burden for them.

Abstracting from stupid straw men attributions to me, how is sending aid to Ukraine a violation of the Constitution (you know, the document that establishes our legal rights and limits to our gov't)?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

If you think that asking one's gov't to do something is inimcial to living in democratic society, you are wrong.

I know this is a point you really detest, but we live in a country where there are things the government is not allowed to do. The Bill of Rights has a long list of such things. Suppose the majority wants to suppress freedom of speech, the press, and religion - would you say majority rules or would you say violation of rights?

I would say that said moves are a violation of the rights of the people, even if the majority wanted such a thing. It is known that you disagree with me on everything.

It is somewhat snarky to suggest that those who want intervention should act upon their beliefs - their belief is that poor people and foreign people should bear the burden for them.

Abstracting from stupid straw men attributions to me, how is sending aid to Ukraine a violation of the Constitution (you know, the document that establishes our legal rights and limits to our gov't)?

The question isn't where it is forbidden, the question is where is it authorized.

 

[laughing dog]

The question isn't where it is forbidden, the question is where is it authorized.

There is a long and established practice of sending aid to countries which strongly suggests that over time, both Congress and the President believe it is authorized. Moreover, to my knowledge, there is no SCOTUS ruling that this is not unconstitutional. So why do you think it is not authorized?

 

[bilby]

Anyway, I'll watch from the sidelines as my tax dollars get lobbed at a problem that 'aint mine.

Sorry, I must have been mistaken when I thought I saw you complaining bitterly about high fuel prices.

Obviously that was a different TSwizzle.

Or perhaps one who is too stupid to realise that the things that influence the global price of fuel, are also influencing the price of fuel in California.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Anyway, I'll watch from the sidelines as my tax dollars get lobbed at a problem that 'aint mine.

Sorry, I must have been mistaken when I thought I saw you complaining bitterly about high fuel prices.

Obviously that was a different TSwizzle.

Or perhaps one who is too stupid to realise that the things that influence the global price of fuel, are also influencing the price of fuel in California.

Dang that's funny. Yes Tswizzle has been complaining bitterly about inflation! The day Russian imperialism stops, wall street will rebound. This war is having an incredible influence on the world economy and on gas prices! I've said it many times, but the war in Ukraine is affecting everyone who eats food or consumes energy.

 

[TSwizzle]

Of course China! What do you think would happen to our economy if China were to invade Taiwan? Do you use any products that rely on chips? I'm sorry to say but the world truely is flat today. We rely on a global supply chain that only works well when countries aren't at war (or doing a pandemic). Were you as concerned about American globalism as when Bush invaded Iraq?

I don't think giving billions of dollars worth of our weapons to the Ukraine is going to be much of a deterrence to China's aspirations.

 

[bilby]

Of course China! What do you think would happen to our economy if China were to invade Taiwan? Do you use any products that rely on chips? I'm sorry to say but the world truely is flat today. We rely on a global supply chain that only works well when countries aren't at war (or doing a pandemic). Were you as concerned about American globalism as when Bush invaded Iraq?

I don't think giving billions of dollars worth of our weapons to the Ukraine is going to be much of a deterrence to China's aspirations.

Why should anyone care what you don’t think?

 

[Harry Bosch]

Of course China! What do you think would happen to our economy if China were to invade Taiwan? Do you use any products that rely on chips? I'm sorry to say but the world truely is flat today. We rely on a global supply chain that only works well when countries aren't at war (or doing a pandemic). Were you as concerned about American globalism as when Bush invaded Iraq?

I don't think giving billions of dollars worth of our weapons to the Ukraine is going to be much of a deterrence to China's aspirations.

You're very naive if you think that China isn't very carefully studying how the west stands up to or not Russia in it's war with Ukraine. You keep skipping the inflation issue. I've read your other posts blaming Biden for inflation. According to the CATO institute, the invasion is responsible for a $1.00 increase in gas in the US. How much do you think that is costing the tax payers? How much of inflation is due to the war? Yea, I'd trade billions for trillions any day of the week.

 

[Jayjay]

Of course China! What do you think would happen to our economy if China were to invade Taiwan? Do you use any products that rely on chips? I'm sorry to say but the world truely is flat today. We rely on a global supply chain that only works well when countries aren't at war (or doing a pandemic). Were you as concerned about American globalism as when Bush invaded Iraq?

I don't think giving billions of dollars worth of our weapons to the Ukraine is going to be much of a deterrence to China's aspirations.

It will be, if it's successful. The risk is that China might start bankrolling Russia.

 

[TSwizzle]

You're very naive if you think that China isn't very carefully studying how the west stands up to or not Russia in it's war with Ukraine.
You keep skipping the inflation issue. I've read your other posts blaming Biden for inflation. According to the CATO institute, the invasion is responsible for a $1.00 increase in gas in the US. How much do you think that is costing the tax payers? How much of inflation is due to the war? Yea, I'd trade billions for trillions any day of the week.

Yeah, I did notice you are very free and easy with US tax payer money. You look at this as an investment. A weird way of looking at it.