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Is MSG bad for you?
- Thread starter Underseer
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Under the Rose
Veteran Member
All things in moderation. I found the following article of interest and it has links to the information cited. Some folks are definitely sensitive to different foods and additives while others do not seem to be affected.
https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/glutamate/
https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/glutamate/
Peez
Member
Having too much of a required nutrient can be a problem in many cases, this comes up often with vitamin mega-doses.
Peez
GenesisNemesis
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My mother complains about anything that has MSG, regardless of where it's from. She even disliked when I suggested getting some MSG to add to food. In her case it's because she read a Facebook post that said it's bad. Seriously, that's the only reason. She never double-checked. My mother also to some degree believes in astrology, so...
Plus you have the people who think all non-natural chemicals in food are bad, by default. Is that necessarily racist?
Plus you have the people who think all non-natural chemicals in food are bad, by default. Is that necessarily racist?
Godless Raven
Member
Sounds like about half of the people I've known that claim to be allergic to gluten....self diagnosed or by a homeopath quack.
As far as the racism goes behind the MSG ban...I lived through some of that during the 70's and 80's in Canada and there was definitely some racism behind the anti-MSG hatred. I can still remember going to Chinese food restaurants and seeing fathers imitate the waiters accent by saying "ching chong wong long dong" or whatever...it was a "normal" thing to witness.
I used to watch shows on TV that regularly allowed garbage like this:
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqmxGoCBAew[/YOUTUBE]
There have been several examples of this type of racism against Chinese people via their restaurants and having questionable meat sources...from pigeon, rats, cats or other wild birds instead of chicken, dog instead of pork etc.
I've witnessed similar behavior while traveling in the US over both MSG, accents and questionable meat sources. I bet just about everyone of you have too.
So if it sounds racist, it looks racist and it's been around for a decades sounding and looking racist...it's probably based in racism.
Peez
Member
I don't think anyone here is arguing that there was never or is now no racism against people of Asian (or specifically Chinese) descent in Canada (or elsewhere). That is quite different from suggesting that concerns about MSG are necessarily motivated by racism.
Peez
Godless Raven
Member
Well, considering the best argument that it's not what happened has been to point out that the original complaint about the "condition" was started by a Chinese immigrant. Which makes about as much sense as saying US slavery wasn't slavery because African's were keeping black slaves before the slave trade. Which unfortunately is another bad argument you see all over the internet. It doesn't matter who made the original complaint, the racism that spread based on it is the racism I'm talking about.
Also, I am not interested in battling straw men, such as the one you're putting up that I'm somehow arguing against an imaginary person claiming there has never been any racism regarding MSG. I've got better things to do.
Peez
Member
I would disagree with that assertion. Leaving aside that if someone claims that complaints about MSG are necessarily racist then it is up to them to support the claim, I would suggest that the best argument against it is examples of people who complain about MSG when there is no Asian food involved.
This analogy makes no sense. A closer analogy would be if American 'blacks' started the slavery of 'blacks'. That a person of Chinese heritage first mentioned this issue suggests that either it was not motivated by racism against Chinese or this person was racist against Chinese (the latter seems unlikely, but I suppose that it is possible).
It may well have spread in part because of racism, this is quite plausible.
I was merely responding to this: "So if it sounds racist, it looks racist and it's been around for a decades sounding and looking racist...it's probably based in racism."
By all means do so.
Peez
Godless Raven
Member
1. I'm pretty sure everyone on this thread agrees that MSG is not causing mass cases of illness and global headaches. I'm pretty sure everyone on this thread agrees that the evidence suggests a very small percentage of people are sensitive or allergic to MSG.
2. I never stated in any context that all dislike, distrust or rumors about MSG in Chinese restaurants were based in racism. I very specifically fucking said "So if it sounds racist, it looks racist and it's been around for a decades sounding and looking racist...it's probably based in racism." Are you familiar with what the word "based" means? Are you familiar with what the word "probably" means? Does it sound like I was saying someone claimed there has never been any racism regarding MSG?
3. No, that analogy was right on. It's about shifting goal posts and insinuating that the craze that took place had to do with a Chinese immigrant because he was the first person to bring up the alleged sickness rather than all the racist shit that was going on long before, during and after that idiot wrote his paper. As if someone how that idiot writing that paper was the reason for a shit load of non-Chinese people to talk about how Chinese restaurants are dirty, rat infested, serve cats and pigeons and poison people with MSG. They are unrelated exactly the same way it's unrelated to say look past white slavery, didn't you know that it was a black that first enslaved blacks!? Most of us have seen this argument from the severely ignorant.
4. "It may have spread in part by racism, this is quite plausible". Yeah, especially to somebody like myself who lived its carry over in to Canada and witnessed it first hand multiple times in the US or through their media. It's really fucking plausible. Does it mean that 100% of these idiots were all racist? NO. I've never insinuated that. Is it 75%? 50%? I don't know, I've never claimed to know. I'm saying I witnessed how it took off like wildfire and that it was all part of the dirty, rat infested, cat eating contaminated Chinese racist garbage that was being spread through North America.
5. I suspect there are some dummies that were getting the pretend headaches that want to make sure they themselves would never have to consider their motivations or they were just one of the dummies experiencing symptoms that never existed, and they were not racist at all. Just fucking dummies. Either way, now it's defense mode. "Racism...wha....wha racism? Uh...."
Peez
Member
I can see that there is little point in attempting to discuss this further with you.
Peez
Godless Raven
Member
I think I pointed that out right from the beginning when you skipped over the words "based" and "probable" and acted like I was somehow debating a pretend person that held the position there was never any racism involved in the MSG scare. I prefer to keep the discussions I have with people be based on what's actually said whenever possible. And I have plenty of times misunderstood what someone was saying, but I also then tell the person that and move on with my point. Since your apparent misunderstanding WAS your point, I can see why you would agree that we are done here.
Take care,
GR
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Learn something new every day. I alwys thought there could be a sensitivity.
I don't particularly like it. Hevy doses in a restaurant for me makes the food taste odd. There are Chinese restaurants that advertise MSG free food.
Link says it is a natural byproduct of digestion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate#Safety
History[edit]
Glutamic acid was discovered and identified in 1866 by the German chemist Karl Heinrich Ritthausen, who treated wheat gluten (for which it was named) with sulfuric acid.[13] Kikunae Ikeda of Tokyo Imperial University isolated glutamic acid as a taste substance in 1908 from the seaweed Laminaria japonica (kombu) by aqueous extraction and crystallization, calling its taste umami.[14][15] Ikeda noticed that dashi, the Japanese broth of katsuobushi and kombu, had a unique taste not yet scientifically described (not sweet, salty, sour, or bitter).[14] To verify that ionized glutamate was responsible for umami, he studied the taste properties of glutamate salts: calcium, potassium, ammonium, and magnesium glutamate. All these salts elicited umami and a metallic taste due to the other minerals. Of them, sodium glutamate was the most soluble, most palatable, and easiest to crystallize.[citation needed] Ikeda called his product "monosodium glutamate", and submitted a patent to produce MSG;[16] the Suzuki brothers began commercial production of MSG in 1909 as Aji-no-moto (味の素, "essence of taste").[17][18][19]
Safety[edit]
MSG is safe to consume.[30] A popular belief is that MSG can cause headaches and other feelings of discomfort but double-blind tests have found no good evidence to support this.[10] MSG has been used for more than 100 years to season food, with a number of studies conducted on its safety. Consumption and manufacture of high-salt and high-glutamate foods, which contain both sodium and glutamate, stretch back far longer, with evidence of cheese manufacture as early as 5,500 BCE.[31] International and national bodies governing food additives currently consider MSG safe for human consumption as a flavor enhancer.[32] Under normal conditions, humans can metabolize relatively large quantities of glutamate, which is naturally produced in the gut in the course of protein hydrolysis. The median lethal dose (LD50) is between 15 and 18 g/kg body weight in rats and mice, respectively, five times the LD50 of sodium chloride (3 g/kg in rats). The use of MSG as a food additive and the natural level of glutamic acid in foods are not toxicological concerns in humans.[32]
A 1995 report from the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB) for the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) concluded that MSG is safe when "eaten at customary levels" and, although a subgroup of otherwise-healthy individuals develop an MSG symptom complex when exposed to 3 g of MSG in the absence of food, MSG as a cause has not been established because the symptom reports are anecdotal.[33]
According to the report, no data support the role of glutamate in chronic disease. A controlled, double-blind, multiple-location clinical trial failed to demonstrate a relationship between the MSG symptom complex and actual MSG consumption. No statistical association has been demonstrated, and the few responses were inconsistent. No symptoms were observed when MSG was administered with food.[34][35][36][37]
Adequately controlling for experimental bias includes a double-blind, placebo-controlled experimental design (DBPC) and administration by capsule, because of the unique aftertaste of glutamates.[36] In a study by Tarasoff and Kelly (1993), 71 fasting participants were given 5 g of MSG and then a standard breakfast. One reaction (to the placebo, in a self-identified MSG-sensitive individual) occurred.[34] A study by Geha et al. (2000) tested the reaction of 130 subjects with a reported sensitivity to MSG. Multiple DBPC trials were performed, with subjects exhibiting at least two symptoms continuing. Two people out of the 130 responded to all four challenges. Because of the low prevalence, the researchers concluded that a response to MSG was not reproducible.[38]
Studies exploring MSG's role in obesity have yielded mixed results.[39][40]
Although several studies have investigated anecdotal links between MSG and asthma, current evidence does not support a causal association.[41] Since glutamates are important neurotransmitters in the human brain, playing a key role in learning and memory, ongoing neurological studies indicate a need for further research.[42]
I don't particularly like it. Hevy doses in a restaurant for me makes the food taste odd. There are Chinese restaurants that advertise MSG free food.
Link says it is a natural byproduct of digestion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate#Safety
History[edit]
Glutamic acid was discovered and identified in 1866 by the German chemist Karl Heinrich Ritthausen, who treated wheat gluten (for which it was named) with sulfuric acid.[13] Kikunae Ikeda of Tokyo Imperial University isolated glutamic acid as a taste substance in 1908 from the seaweed Laminaria japonica (kombu) by aqueous extraction and crystallization, calling its taste umami.[14][15] Ikeda noticed that dashi, the Japanese broth of katsuobushi and kombu, had a unique taste not yet scientifically described (not sweet, salty, sour, or bitter).[14] To verify that ionized glutamate was responsible for umami, he studied the taste properties of glutamate salts: calcium, potassium, ammonium, and magnesium glutamate. All these salts elicited umami and a metallic taste due to the other minerals. Of them, sodium glutamate was the most soluble, most palatable, and easiest to crystallize.[citation needed] Ikeda called his product "monosodium glutamate", and submitted a patent to produce MSG;[16] the Suzuki brothers began commercial production of MSG in 1909 as Aji-no-moto (味の素, "essence of taste").[17][18][19]
Safety[edit]
MSG is safe to consume.[30] A popular belief is that MSG can cause headaches and other feelings of discomfort but double-blind tests have found no good evidence to support this.[10] MSG has been used for more than 100 years to season food, with a number of studies conducted on its safety. Consumption and manufacture of high-salt and high-glutamate foods, which contain both sodium and glutamate, stretch back far longer, with evidence of cheese manufacture as early as 5,500 BCE.[31] International and national bodies governing food additives currently consider MSG safe for human consumption as a flavor enhancer.[32] Under normal conditions, humans can metabolize relatively large quantities of glutamate, which is naturally produced in the gut in the course of protein hydrolysis. The median lethal dose (LD50) is between 15 and 18 g/kg body weight in rats and mice, respectively, five times the LD50 of sodium chloride (3 g/kg in rats). The use of MSG as a food additive and the natural level of glutamic acid in foods are not toxicological concerns in humans.[32]
A 1995 report from the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB) for the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) concluded that MSG is safe when "eaten at customary levels" and, although a subgroup of otherwise-healthy individuals develop an MSG symptom complex when exposed to 3 g of MSG in the absence of food, MSG as a cause has not been established because the symptom reports are anecdotal.[33]
According to the report, no data support the role of glutamate in chronic disease. A controlled, double-blind, multiple-location clinical trial failed to demonstrate a relationship between the MSG symptom complex and actual MSG consumption. No statistical association has been demonstrated, and the few responses were inconsistent. No symptoms were observed when MSG was administered with food.[34][35][36][37]
Adequately controlling for experimental bias includes a double-blind, placebo-controlled experimental design (DBPC) and administration by capsule, because of the unique aftertaste of glutamates.[36] In a study by Tarasoff and Kelly (1993), 71 fasting participants were given 5 g of MSG and then a standard breakfast. One reaction (to the placebo, in a self-identified MSG-sensitive individual) occurred.[34] A study by Geha et al. (2000) tested the reaction of 130 subjects with a reported sensitivity to MSG. Multiple DBPC trials were performed, with subjects exhibiting at least two symptoms continuing. Two people out of the 130 responded to all four challenges. Because of the low prevalence, the researchers concluded that a response to MSG was not reproducible.[38]
Studies exploring MSG's role in obesity have yielded mixed results.[39][40]
Although several studies have investigated anecdotal links between MSG and asthma, current evidence does not support a causal association.[41] Since glutamates are important neurotransmitters in the human brain, playing a key role in learning and memory, ongoing neurological studies indicate a need for further research.[42]
My nephew saw a "No MSG" sign and thought it meant he had to turn off his cell phone.
GenesisNemesis
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- Secular Humanist, Scientific Skepticism, Strong Atheism
Racist.