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Is the Hamas Israel War a Religious War?

SLD

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Saw this claimed on another webpage. An atheist blames the recent mid East war on religion.

But is that really fair?

Maybe to an extent all wars are religious. How else can you motivate poor people to fight for the rich?
 
As a nation, Israel was formed to give the Jews a homeland. Judaism is a religion. The state of Israel has a religious cultural heritage that spans centuries. The dispute is related to both land and religious identity.
 
Arab and Iranian Muslims when speaking of Israel often discriminate between Jews whcih they say they have no problem with, and Zionists which they oppose.

When I looked at Mid East media years back I found an anti Jewish Iranian cite with an ugly cartoon animation that looked like some of the Nazi animations I saw.

They call Israel Zionists. Netanyahu represents religious conservative Israeli Zionists. Analogous to our Evangelical biblical creationists. It may have changed. Jewish academic clerics do not have to work, they are state supported, and they do not have to do military service.


Zionism, Jewish nationalist movement that has had as its goal the creation and support of a Jewish national state in Palestine, the ancient homeland of the Jews (Hebrew: Eretz Yisraʾel, “the Land of Israel”). Though Zionism originated in eastern and central Europe in the latter part of the 19th century, it is in many ways a continuation of the ancient attachment of the Jews and of the Jewish religion to the historical region of Palestine, where one of the hills of ancient Jerusalem was called Zion.

There are plosives to Israel. They developed a reasonable degree of democracy with the dame kind of individual rights we have. A free press.

In my amateur analyst opinion Israel was seen as a political threat to the Arab religious monarchies. After debate Israel was founded as a secular state. There is religious freedom in Israel.


I looked at the Saudi constitution. There is freedom, as long as it does not conflict with the Koran. Iran is a religious dictatorship, the ayatollah can over ride anything.

Israel is a glaring threat to he Muslim religious autocrats.

Israel led the US on gay rights. This too may have changed, there has been no civil-secular marriage in Israel. Marriage is lft up to individual religions. A gay couple can get married abroad and it will be recognized. Or so how I remember it.

Iran stokes the fire because it rallies Muslims to its side. Lebanon was a vacaytion spot and stanble is now an armed camp. There was a news report where there was a street with Muslims of different sides living on opposite sides of the street. Something set them off and they were in street fighting.

You can look at the wiki site on the Lebanon Civil War. Multiple factions on both sides having nothing to do with Israel.

When Arafat left college it was like he went to a job fair and chose terrorism as a career. He went to Jordan causing trouble, then went to Pallestine.

I don't think peace in the region is possible. Even without Israel the region is riddled with religious fanatics. Iran Iraq war. Yemen. Sudan.

When you look at a wall map of the region what struck me was all this conflict is occuring in small area.
 
Virtually all wars are religious wars.
Belief in a god seems to be prerequisite for most people, before they are willing to go slaughter other humans.
Setting up religious States guarantees their eventual involvement in “holy” war.
Once convinced of the absurdity that is gods, the leap to committing atrocities is but a small step.
 
Saw this claimed on another webpage. An atheist blames the recent mid East war on religion.

But is that really fair?

To me that's not fair or accurate.

The war is between indigenous Palestinians and Zionists.

But religion is serving it's age old purpose of dividing people into "Us" and "them". It's easier to hate and war upon a group if you don't see them as individuals. It could also be a race, or nationality or whatever.

T'was ever thus.
Tom

ETA ~If people wanted a religious war the obvious sides would be Jews and Muslims against Christians. Judaism and Islam aren't all that different, both are monotheistic religions worshipping the god of Abraham. Completely different from the Christian religion with it's demigod Jesus and a Trinity.
And both Jews and Muslims have been quite abused by Christians for centuries. How about a war with some meaning. Abrahamic monotheists versus Trinitarian colonialists? ~
 
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Who says 'atheists' can not be as wacky, fanatical, and ideological as theists?
Pretty much everyone who is paying attention.

Unless they're insanely devoted to the idiotic idea that in all disagreements of any kind, "Both sides are as bad as each other"; An idea that has been widely promoted by the worst people in history, in a desperate attempt to paint themselves as no worse than anyone else.

Sadly for devotees of this imbecilic philosophy, reality exists, and in that reality, theists are consistently at the very top of the league when it comes to wackiness, fanaticism, and ideology.

You could argue that there's no fundamental difference between Manchester United and the Talbot Road Primary School under six third eleven; After all, both play football. But to argue that would only reveal your abject ignorance of the massive gulf in both quality and quantity between the two groups.
 
Nothing in either of their holy books condones what each has done to the other. It doesn't condemn it either. They really are shitty holy books. Maybe if they followed a better faith, they'd be better people. Like Mormonism. If they were all Mormons, none of this would be happening. Or Quakers. We should go in to this area and brutally convert all of these people into Quakers. Problem solved!
 
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You could argue that there's no fundamental difference between Manchester United and the Talbot Road Primary School under six third eleven; After all, both play football. But to argue that would only reveal your abject ignorance of the massive gulf in both quality and quantity between the two groups.
Its an awful lot cheaper to follow Talbot Rd Primary than Man U.
 
Virtually all wars are religious wars.
Belief in a god seems to be prerequisite for most people, before they are willing to go slaughter other humans.
Setting up religious States guarantees their eventual involvement in “holy” war.
Once convinced of the absurdity that is gods, the leap to committing atrocities is but a small step.
Or perhaps religion just covers a naked grab for power?
In NI the battle was said to be between Catholics and Protestants. Neither were fighting for their religion, just who would rule. It neatly divided into those two camps.
Right now Israel - Hamas are fighting who will control that area and its inhabitants. Pure power grab, but divides neatly into X vs. Y
 
Identity politics includes religion, enabling Protestants against Catholics, etc, for whatever reason that comes up, land, money, division.....
 
In NI the battle was said to be between Catholics and Protestants. Neither were fighting for their religion, just who would rule. It neatly divided into those two camps.
Both were fighting for their religion, and had been for over four centuries.

When they started, there was literally zero distinction between who would rule, and what religion would rule. It ultimately was a choice between Catholicism with a tiny number of variations, the largest of which was that the head of the church was the King of England; And Catholicism with zero variations, with the Pope as head of the church.

The lesson of history is that the more similarities there are between religious sects, the more violently they hate each other.
 
Or perhaps religion just covers a naked grab for power?

I believe that’s almost always right - for the political power mongers involved. They need the rabble to believe in (some particular dogma of) a god, to a point where it’s more important than life itself, such that they’re willing to kill and die in its service.
A notable exception was back when Americans were actually willing to fight to defend their Constitution. But even then it was “all about God and Country” so’s to keep the fundy element engaged.

Trump calls them suckers and losers, btw.
 
A major obstacle to peace is Israel's illegal settlements in Palestinian territory. These settlements should be removed; instead they're expanding. This atrocity -- in total violation of international law -- is a major reason no peace can be enforced.

And why do some Israelis persist in illegally occupying that land? The answer is very simple: "Because God Gave this Land to Me!"

 
A major obstacle to peace is Israel's illegal settlements in Palestinian territory. These settlements should be removed; instead they're expanding. This atrocity -- in total violation of international law -- is a major reason no peace can be enforced.

That’s exactly what I’ve been thinking, but biting my lip because I’m no expert on Middle East bullshit.

And why do some Israelis persist in illegally occupying that land? The answer is very simple: "Because God Gave this Land to Me!"



Gods are such assholes.
And their followers are worse.
 
Cutesie wootsie, but I think Israeli extremists are unique as far as God-given land claims go. Alexander the Great didn't claim that Zeus directed him; nor did Rome act at Jupiter's behest. The Chinese Emperors never said Confucius told them to conquer. Even Hitler never invoked God directly for his Lebensraum.

The 16th and 17th century Europeans who committed atrocities against American natives may have claimed to be acting for God, but the claimed dominion was over humans, not land, and especially no particular parcel of land.

Please be aware that I am NOT denouncing the Jewish religion.There are plenty of Christian idiots and evil-doers. It is unfortunate that evil-doers like Netanyahu exploit religious extremists.
 
What was I thinking.

As we all know anyone who identifies as theist is inherently irrational, and anyone who identifies as atheist is inherently rational.
 
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